| |
Discussion: How much of Lemonade did Beyonce write?
Member Since: 8/19/2013
Posts: 4,920
|
Quote:
Originally posted by MissedTheTrain
I think whoever came up with the composition of the song, the lyrics and the melody, deserve songwriting credits. That's songwriting at its core. Adding some riffs and runs is not changing the main base melody of the song.
|
Vocal arrangements actually does matters(how to sing it, what notes to hit). However, some artists are able to arranged their own songs without any assistance. Beyoncé does all her vocal producing and arrangements. While some artists need a vocal arranger to help them. So yes it's essential to songwriting process.
|
|
|
|
Member Since: 8/31/2013
Posts: 17,456
|
|
|
|
|
Member Since: 1/2/2011
Posts: 3,257
|
Quote:
Originally posted by swissman
This logic makes a cover the same as a demo though.
A demo is in progress, it's open to change before its finalized and stamped.
Like if I was writing a recipe with someone and someone else conceived entire recipe and I changed the raisins for chocolate chips, published it, it's done. That's our recipe.
If I took Martha Stewarts published recipe for oatmeal cookies and added chocolate chips and called it "Martha Stewart's Oatmeal Cookies Recipe that I created" it wouldn't make sense.
|
dead!!!! so if you paint borders on a Picasso painting, or add stars to starry night from Van Gogh it will be your work? lololol.
|
|
|
|
Member Since: 7/12/2010
Posts: 9,704
|
Quote:
Originally posted by *.Digambar.*
the thing with Taylor is she's the driving force behind her songs. she's there at the beginning stages of the process all the way to the end. you don't even know what Beyonce writes so how can you say get lyrics are better? so if Beyonce could write songs on her own, why hasn't she? technically anyone can? you think it's easy to make a song with no help whatsoever? that's why you stay deluded.
|
..Isn't this literally why they call Beyonce one of the hardest working women in showbiz?
|
|
|
|
Member Since: 3/27/2012
Posts: 18,963
|
Quote:
Originally posted by *.Digambar.*
the thing with Taylor is she's the driving force behind her songs. she's there at the beginning stages of the process all the way to the end. you don't even know what Beyonce writes so how can you say get lyrics are better? so if Beyonce could write songs on her own, why hasn't she? technically anyone can? you think it's easy to make a song with no help whatsoever? that's why you stay deluded.
|
Did you not just explain why Taylor collaborates? Could it not be the same for Beyoncé? She likes working with people, new perspectives, etc.? Did you forget she comes from a background of working in a group? Some people love collaboration.
And yes we do know a lot of the verses and such that she's written. Just because you don't know of it doesn't mean the information is not there if you seek it. A lot of the time it's bridges or verses.
|
|
|
|
Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 30,225
|
Quote:
Originally posted by swissman
3) There are more legends who have not written music for themselves than those that have. Like come on.
|
This is what is frustrating to me. I like and respect Beyonce a lot. There is SO much she's good at that sets her apart. But she's a perfectionist, and seems to want to be seen as perfect, good at everything she does, perfect in every area of her career, and I feel like she's dishonest with songwriting, giving herself more credit than she deserves.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with not having writing credit on your songs. Especially when you're as much of a performer as Beyonce. It's not like she's a puppet....she's the major force in creating her albums, she picks songs and caters them to her liking. She's probably one of the most involved Pop artists at the moment and that deserves plenty of respect, not to mention her incredible performing and singing ability. I hold songwriting in high regard and it just bothers me a bit to see Beyonce not being super real about it, and to be too scared to release music without her listed as a writer on it.
Whitney Houston didn't write most of her material, and nobody cares because her vocal talent alone was enough to shine. Taylor Swift writers all of her own material because that's her forte, that's where her talent lies and she wants to be known for that. Besides, most people have no clue and don't care who writes a song. I don't consider Beyonce a force as a songwriter in the way that people like Taylor and Adele are, and that's 100% fine since she's the best performer out there right now and still very involved in every aspect of her career. I just wish she was more honest about it.
|
|
|
|
ATRL Contributor
Member Since: 1/3/2014
Posts: 11,976
|
This makes sense. People always act as if their fave has no faults and hold them up to be some sort of god. Then, when flaws are revealed, people get upset.
OT: No more than 20%.
|
|
|
|
Member Since: 3/27/2012
Posts: 18,963
|
Quote:
Originally posted by *.Digambar.*
dead!!!! so if you paint borders on a Picasso painting, or add stars to starry night from Van Gogh it will be your work? lololol.
|
Are you purposely not understanding?
Did you read ANYTHING from what I just said?
Did you see how I said if you adjust an already published/released/final piece of work then you can't take credit for it.
But if you were there with Piacsso and you said "I'm going to make that flower pink" then you actually contributed to the final painting.
Is this hard to understand?
|
|
|
|
Member Since: 1/2/2011
Posts: 3,257
|
Quote:
Originally posted by Mani.
..Isn't this literally why they call Beyonce one of the hardest working women in showbiz?
|
not when there are proofs of demos of her where she had no part of.
|
|
|
|
Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 10,195
|
|
|
|
|
Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 30,225
|
Quote:
Originally posted by MrBeyonceFan
No she doesn't she gets credits for performing arrangements which is an aspect of the song. When she writes a bridge, verse,etc. She gets her credit even though she didn't fully write the song she still is apart of making of the song.
So if you come at her for "stealing credits" we can use the same arguments against anyone else regardless |
No.....Beyonce has credits as a songwriter on a lot of her songs where it appears that she didn't do much to deserve credit in creating the song. That's what we are talking about. Performing credits and songwriting credits are two different things. Of course if someone writes a verse or a bridge they get a songwriting credit, because they wrote a part of the song. But in things like Smash Into You, she didn't do anything but change a word. The melody is the same, the arrangement is the same. She changed up the way it's sung, but that doesn't alter the song's composition itself...that's called interpreting.
|
|
|
|
Member Since: 6/22/2011
Posts: 20,940
|
Quote:
Originally posted by MissedTheTrain
This is what is frustrating to me. I like and respect Beyonce a lot. There is SO much she's good at that sets her apart. But she's a perfectionist, and seems to want to be seen as perfect, good at everything she does, perfect in every area of her career, and I feel like she's dishonest with songwriting, giving herself more credit than she deserves.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with not having writing credit on your songs. Especially when you're as much of a performer as Beyonce. It's not like she's a puppet....she's the major force in creating her albums, she picks songs and caters them to her liking. She's probably one of the most involved Pop artists at the moment and that deserves plenty of respect, not to mention her incredible performing and singing ability. I hold songwriting in high regard and it just bothers me a bit to see Beyonce not being super real about it, and to be too scared to release music without her listed as a writer on it.
Whitney Houston didn't write most of her material, and nobody cares because her vocal talent alone was enough to shine. Taylor Swift writers all of her own material because that's her forte, that's where her talent lies and she wants to be known for that. Besides, most people have no clue and don't care who writes a song. I don't consider Beyonce a force as a songwriter in the way that people like Taylor and Adele are, and that's 100% fine since she's the best performer out there right now and still very involved in every aspect of her career. I just wish she was more honest about it.
|
How she's not being "real" when she only talks about the songs she wrote or would shout out who wrote them?
Where is the proof her" stealing credit of writing"?
|
|
|
|
Member Since: 7/12/2010
Posts: 9,704
|
Quote:
Originally posted by MissedTheTrain
This is what is frustrating to me. I like and respect Beyonce a lot. There is SO much she's good at that sets her apart. But she's a perfectionist, and seems to want to be seen as perfect, good at everything she does, perfect in every area of her career, and I feel like she's dishonest with songwriting, giving herself more credit than she deserves.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with not having writing credit on your songs. Especially when you're as much of a performer as Beyonce. It's not like she's a puppet....she's the major force in creating her albums, she picks songs and caters them to her liking. She's probably one of the most involved Pop artists at the moment and that deserves plenty of respect, not to mention her incredible performing and singing ability. I hold songwriting in high regard and it just bothers me a bit to see Beyonce not being super real about it, and to be too scared to release music without her listed as a writer on it.
Whitney Houston didn't write most of her material, and nobody cares because her vocal talent alone was enough to shine. Taylor Swift writers all of her own material because that's her forte, that's where her talent lies and she wants to be known for that. Besides, most people have no clue and don't care who writes a song. I don't consider Beyonce a force as a songwriter in the way that people like Taylor and Adele are, and that's 100% fine since she's the best performer out there right now and still very involved in every aspect of her career. I just wish she was more honest about it.
|
I don't get where this is even coming from. Lol. You think she gives herself more credit than she deserves, when she barely even speaks on songwriting. She's involved in the writing process, which is clear from numerous of artists she's collaborated with and she deserves to be credited on the song. She isn't giving some long winded speech about how much of an amazing songwriter she is. You and the rest of Atrl seems to be more stressed about it than anyone else. No one has any proof of any of these assumptions you guys keep coming up with. 
|
|
|
|
Member Since: 1/2/2011
Posts: 3,257
|
Quote:
Originally posted by swissman
Did you not just explain why Taylor collaborates? Could it not be the same for Beyoncé? She likes working with people, new perspectives, etc.? Did you forget she comes from a background of working in a group? Some people love collaboration.
And yes we do know a lot of the verses and such that she's written. Just because you don't know of it doesn't mean the information is not there if you seek it. A lot of the time it's bridges or verses.
|
she adds in to the final product. Taylor is there to see her music from beginning to the end. how is that so hard to understand? she's playing the role of the editor. while Taylor is a songwriter who births songs, HERSELF.
|
|
|
|
Member Since: 6/22/2011
Posts: 20,940
|
Quote:
Originally posted by MissedTheTrain
No.....Beyonce has credits as a songwriter on a lot of her songs where it appears that she didn't do much to deserve credit in creating the song. That's what we are talking about. Performing credits and songwriting credits are two different things. Of course if someone writes a verse or a bridge they get a songwriting credit, because they wrote a part of the song. But in things like Smash Into You, she didn't do anything but change a word. The melody is the same, the arrangement is the same. She changed up the way it's sung, but that doesn't alter the song's composition itself...that's called interpreting.
|
OMG are this slow?
Because on a booklet they have her name on the credits doesn't mean she always writes on it...she is along with writers, producers and the Legend herself as an arranger and producer of her vocals.
|
|
|
|
Member Since: 3/27/2012
Posts: 18,963
|
Quote:
Originally posted by MissedTheTrain
This is what is frustrating to me. I like and respect Beyonce a lot. There is SO much she's good at that sets her apart. But she's a perfectionist, and seems to want to be seen as perfect, good at everything she does, perfect in every area of her career, and I feel like she's dishonest with songwriting, giving herself more credit than she deserves.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with not having writing credit on your songs. Especially when you're as much of a performer as Beyonce. It's not like she's a puppet....she's the major force in creating her albums, she picks songs and caters them to her liking. She's probably one of the most involved Pop artists at the moment and that deserves plenty of respect, not to mention her incredible performing and singing ability. I hold songwriting in high regard and it just bothers me a bit to see Beyonce not being super real about it, and to be too scared to release music without her listed as a writer on it.
Whitney Houston didn't write most of her material, and nobody cares because her vocal talent alone was enough to shine. Taylor Swift writers all of her own material because that's her forte, that's where her talent lies and she wants to be known for that. Besides, most people have no clue and don't care who writes a song. I don't consider Beyonce a force as a songwriter in the way that people like Taylor and Adele are, and that's 100% fine since she's the best performer out there right now and still very involved in every aspect of her career. I just wish she was more honest about it.
|
But if Beyoncé is there, if she guides the writers, if she adds verses or bridges, if she changed the melody, if she changes even words, she contributed to the song. In the case of a song like Formation, it was supposed to be a general empowerment anthem, but she added her own verses and made it about black pride. That is a major and very different contribution. In the case of other songs where she changes a lyric, you're right it's not major and her name on the credit paints a different picture than reality, but also the reality is she did contribute to it. If we were to see the royalty distribution and it was unfairly going to Beyoncé for minimal work, that would be one thing, but merely getting credited for your work shouldn't be such an issue.
As for her perfectionism, as a fan I see that she is very serious about her job, she is a perfectionist and takes it seriously. I don't see this as a problem but something I like about her. I'd rather my fave be trying to be perfect rather than settling for less. And if she were really trying to manage her perfect image, with this same shade coming for a long time, I'd think she'd either decide to work alone or just be more transparent so people wouldn't think something that's not true. Instead like all negative rumours, she doesn't even mention them, she lets them float away, and in that I see that she is a perfectionist about her results but not what people's opinions of her are.
|
|
|
|
Member Since: 1/2/2011
Posts: 3,257
|
Quote:
Originally posted by swissman
Are you purposely not understanding?
Did you read ANYTHING from what I just said?
Did you see how I said if you adjust an already published/released/final piece of work then you can't take credit for it.
But if you were there with Piacsso and you said "I'm going to make that flower pink" then you actually contributed to the final painting.
Is this hard to understand?
|
hunny, you're saying as long as its not published, you can take credit for things you're not even past of from the beginning. if you don't know how shady that is I don't what to tell you. if there was a painting which is not yet published and you decide to to give a slash of blue, it doesn't make you a painter.
|
|
|
|
Member Since: 7/12/2010
Posts: 9,704
|
Quote:
Originally posted by *.Digambar.*
she adds in to the final product. Taylor is there to see her music from beginning to the end. how is that so hard to understand? she's playing the role of the editor. while Taylor is a songwriter who births songs, HERSELF.
|
How do YOU know? Are you there to witness it for yourself? Jesus.
|
|
|
|
Member Since: 3/27/2012
Posts: 18,963
|
Quote:
Originally posted by *.Digambar.*
she adds in to the final product. Taylor is there to see her music from beginning to the end. how is that so hard to understand? she's playing the role of the editor. while Taylor is a songwriter who births songs, HERSELF.
|
That's not true actually.
Sometimes she receives songs and changes them, other times she has writing camps where she is involve from the ground up (B'Day, Self-Titled).
And no, this is very simple to understand. I'm not sure why you're thinking I've misunderstood.
|
|
|
|
Member Since: 4/10/2011
Posts: 85
|
Quote:
Originally posted by Havoc
Sandcastles:
As Beyonce worked on the project – she received “Sandcastles” in February 2015, Berry said -- the songwriter knew he wanted to keep ownership of the record instead of signing a publishing agreement, but that meant making great sacrifices.
“I wanted to own it and that’s a harder road. That meant being homeless and sleeping in cars and garages and studios and that’s what I was willing to do,” said Berry, who now lives in Woodland Hills. “I knew I couldn’t sign a publishing deal knowing what they are -- essentially a high-interest loan. Why would I take that kind of deal?”
On the final version of the record, which Berry heard ahead of the album’s April release, Beyonce wrote a more hopeful ending than the one Berry originally penned.
“And your heart is broken cause I walked away / Show me your scars and I won't walk away,” Beyonce sang. “And I know I promised that I couldn't stay, baby / [But] every promise don't work out that way.”
Daddys Lessons
Beyoncé is a scientist of songs. I’ve never seen anyone work the way she works. She definitely changes the song structures. She can take two songs, say, “I like two lines, I like the melody then let me use that for a verse and a bridge and write the whole middle.” It’s more of a collaboration. You never know what she’ll like. I came to her with a bunch of songs and she was like, “I like that verse, I like the idea.” But she definitely doesn’t take things as is, at least not from me.1 I came in on the Jack White song [“Don’t Hurt Yourself”] and helped finish it.
[...]
You’d written Daddy Lessons before you worked with her?
When I played it for her, I was like, “This is one of my favorite songs.” [b]She was like, “This is my life.” I told her, “You know what, take it, do what you want with it.” She went and re-produced it, she changed some words, added the bridge, it’s hers. She didn’t talk to me about her father. We didn’t go into details. I see their relationship in the media just like everyone else. I watched the HBO special just like everyone else.
Formation:
Will later ran into Bey at a hotel-room hangout with LeBron James and the Cavaliers, he says. “And Bey was like, ‘Yo, I like that “formation” idea.’ And I told her what I was thinking about the woman empowerment, and she was like, ‘Yeah I kinda like that idea.’ And she just left it like that.” Although Beyoncé wrote new verses for the song, she built around the central mantra. “We were just thinking about it being a female anthem,” Will added. “Because I knew I just wanted a banger with Beyoncé, like a ‘Single Ladies,’ but I wanted it to be a new kind of chant.”
Will spent a week in the studio with Beyoncé working on the track. She “took this one little idea we came up with on the way to Coachella, put it in a pot, stirred it up, and came with this smash,” he says. “She takes ideas and puts them with her own ideas, and makes this masterpiece. She’s all about collaborating.” He added, “That’s what makes her Beyoncé. Being able to know what she wants. A lot of people don’t know what they want.
Dont Hurt Yourself:
You're a business partner with Jay Z in his Tidal streaming service as well. Is that how Beyoncé got the idea of coming over and ringing your bell?
You know, I just talked to her and she said, "I wanna be in a band with you." [Laughs.] I said, "Really? Well, I'd love to do something." I've always loved her voice — I mean, I think she has the kind of soul singing voice of the days of Betty Davis or Aretha Franklin. She took just sort of a sketch of a lyrical outline and turned into the most bodacious, vicious, incredible song. I don't even know what you'd classify it as — soul, rock and roll, whatever. "Don't Hurt Yourself" is incredibly intense; I'm so amazed at what she did with it
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
