[Mr. Wonder]

Originally posted by Chimier

The answer is no. A strong no, a loud no, a resonant no, a damn sure near-eternal NO.

Let's start off with the fact that Whitney Houston is by far the most influential female vocalist of the past three decades, followed by Mariah. Beyonce does not come close.

Success goes without saying.

Anyone who thinks Beyonce has surpassed Whitney or Mariah in cultural significance or impact:
a) doesn't know what cultural impact is
b) needs to go and do research
c) is just talking for the sake of talking
d) all of the above.

Mariah Carey defined an entire decade of music. A decade. Then had perhaps the greatest comeback in recent history and ended the decade topping everyone...AGAIN. This is a woman whose vocal style has been imitated for the best part of almost three decades. This is a woman who has conquered not just her own home continent, but another on the other side of the world. This is a woman who is the top hitmaker out of all her peers.

Whitney Houston: there simply hasn't been and never will be again. This was a black female singer who outdid her white and male peers on the charts without any effort. This was a woman who shattered barriers for the female singer, the black singer, the pop singer and the R&B singer. This was a woman who set the standard for singing in the modern era and still holds it. Beyonce has not done any of these things, thus she cannot have surpassed Whitney in cultural significance.

The significance of Whitney Houston lies in the fact that she symbolizes the Civil Rights dream: everything coming together. She combined the old with the new and forged a new path and reached unsurpassed heights. Unsurpassed. She conquered music, Hollywood AND television. Another thing Beyonce has not done. She might be the closest in her generation to Whitney in terms of status, but even she doesn't come close.

In terms of media presence, Beyonce benefits from formats that Whitney and Mariah did not have, so you can't even really compare them in that either, especially seeing as how Whitney and Mariah were two the top-selling female artists of their time EFFORTLESSLY. Their entire star power came from their music success and popularity, and out of all the big divas of the 90s, only Whitney was able to successfully translate that success into other entertainment formats. No one else has done it since.

In terms of acclaim, again, you cannot compare. Retrospect has changed a lot of the narrative that was delivered about Whitney and Mariah. In their heyday, a specific type of critic dismissed their work as lacking substance and soul, and while acknowledging their vocal prowess, also dismissed their singing has having no substance and soul. Fast-forward a few decades later, and it's become quite a different story, especially in light of how music has changed so much (and for the worse, according to a lot of people).

You all like to get very excited when your favorite artists are being showered with praise, and that's absolutely fine, but 99% of the time, you also like to rewrite history with a very myopic and shallow outlook. You make grand statements w/o any kind of receipts or substance to back them up, thinking your "stan talk" is enough. Try coming with facts. If you can post on ATRL, you can go on Google and research.

P.S. Cultural impact does not equate to 200 articles written about your fav's latest album. Cultural impact refers to the effects of an artist's work on the culture, usually being reflected in the artist's influence and/or referenced in other media formats.

[IMPACTNET.]

No and she never will. She has not surpassed either in impact, influence or success. Mariah and Whitney were by far the biggest sellers of their prime. Beyoncé was and is not. Most of you weren't even born when Whitney and Mariah were in their primes, so I don't understand how any of you can suggest that she has surpassed them in fame. Beyoncé is not more popular than Whitney was during The Bodyguard or Mariah in 1995. Beyoncé benefits from the Internet age, which has contributed to her media presence. Neither Whitney or Mariah benefitted from such avenues, and even still Beyoncé has not surpassed them. Musically, Whitney and Mariah have contributed much more to music with their voices alone. Beyoncé, while extremely talented, just isn't an innovator. She moreso takes what already exists musically and puts her own style into it. And she does it well. I won't deny Beyoncé is impactful, but her impact and influence does not supersede Mariah or Whitney's.

[willmcclure9]

Originally posted by dirrtydiana

She needs to surpass Rihanna first

This

[OffTheWall]

Originally posted by T.C

MLIYL some 13 million

My love is your love peaked at #13 on Billboard 200

[Mr. Wonder]

Originally posted by Sunshine.

Clearly Beyonce hasn't surpassed either of them, but no need to lie. Beyonce has 20 years on her.

"Beyonce" has not been out for 20 years.

Is there a particular reason why we can't compare solo careers? Or is DC's successes still needed as life support?

[jose168]

Originally posted by OffTheWall

My love is your love peaked at #13 on Billboard 200

following the bodyguard an impact-less BOMB.

[T.C]

Originally posted by OffTheWall

My love is your love peaked at #13 on Billboard 200

And still sold 13 mill WW

She outdid Mariah and Janet that era

[Soapp]

The Beyonce Experience tour is literally bigger than any Mariah tour ever. Beyonce surpassed Mariah in single sales, iconic looks, touring, relevancy, etc. Mariah was nothing but a Katy Perry of the 90s with quick little hits. Beyonce is highly regarded by many and even though I don't care for her, I have to respect that. Mariah has been nothing less of a joke for many years.

[madonnas]

Bringing up Mariah and Whitney's album sales when their peak was also the peak of album sales themselves? Like, get with the times

[mdnazn]

Originally posted by Chimier

#1- For Whitney to have "whitewashed" her music, that would mean she would have been performing music that was mostly white in nature. She wasn't and she didn't. The criticism of her being "whitewashed" came from black critics who were upset at her crossover success, and white critics, who wanted her to do completely R&B and soul music, not because her music was actually "white". Pop music is a derivative of ROCK AND ROLL, a BLACK genre. So that's dead.

As for "whitewashing" her demeanor, not quite. It's called assimilation. They tone down the "black" parts of themselves when operating in mostly-white spaces. Whitney did it, Janet does it, Beyonce does it. It's what a lot of black people in successful positions do. It's an unspoken rule and requirement due to the racist nature of society.

#2- What you said about Beyonce in no way refutes the facts about Whitney. Beyonce being the performer of her generation. Cool beans. Whitney was and is the singer of hers and more. Beyonce is. influential. Amazing. So was and is Whitney.

#3- Even with her drug addiction and her death, Whitney Houston is still one of the most beloved and respected artists to have ever lived. Drug addiction only truly polarized the masses, and in most cases, they get over it and move on. So I don't know what point you're trying to make here.

Basically, all you did to try refute my point about Whitney was say "Beyonce is successful and influential too, never "whitewashed" her music and is not a drug addict". Wow. You've really shown me.



Initially, it was. But then, in the next year, it had gone 4x platinum, sold 10-13 million copies worldwide, and spawned the biggest European tour of 1999. Meaning...it was a slow-burner, but it was consistent when the flame really hit.

Damn. Educate them.

[Mr. Wonder]

Originally posted by jose168

My Love is your love (13th year into her career) was a flop. Lemonade was a massive success.

My Love Is Your Love featured 3 top ten Hot 100 hits and sold upwards of 10 million copies.

If that's a flop, what do you call an album that sold less than half of that and featured 2 less top ten hits? Dare we not even compare their international success.

[Floyd Mayweather]

Originally posted by Mr. Wonder

"Beyonce" has not been out for 20 years.

Is there a particular reason why we can't compare solo careers? Or is DC's successes still needed as life support?

It's still part of her career. That much can't be taken away.

[PrettyHurts]

WOO! The legend stans are SHOOK by Beyoncé her power coming for their faves thrones!

Bey is only 35 anyway, it's not like she is peers with Mariah and Whitney or anything. When she gets to 45+ we will be able to see the full scope of her impact

[Chimier]

Originally posted by jose168

so "whitney is influential" overwrites beyonce but "beyonce is influential" doesn't overwrite whitney? You're so biased, and not only that stuck in time like every other whitney or janet stan. rip the stan goggles off and look into the 21st century. Beyonce the performer and beyonce the role model are far bigger than whitney the singer

Yes, it does. Because Whitney's influence has been going on for OVER THIRTY YEARS. THIRTY YEARS. And in MULTIPLE categories: singing, the kinds of music people make, the entertainment formats they choose to go in.

There's a reason Beyonce said this about Whitney when she passed:

"She is our queen and provided a blueprint for us all".

I WONDER what she was referring to. Hmmm......

So no, Beyonce the performer is not bigger than Whitney the singer, especially seeing as how Whitney has had far more influence in singing than Beyonce has in performing. Her influence in singing was far more immediate, far more widespread AND it's still going.

"Beyonce the role model"- LOL ok. What's next? Beyonce the fashion designer? Beyonce the mother?

Originally posted by jose168

Theres a reason why theres a trio for singers that are compareable (whitney celine and mariah) and only one beyoncé. She's in her own lane.

This is HORRIBLE logic.
Whitney was the FIRST of that group. The other two were influenced by her and started their careers (for Celine her international career) following her blueprint. They're compared because they all had major commercial success in the 90s, and because they are all extremely talented vocalists, not because influence is split between them.

In fact, all you've done is show that there are more people following in Whitney's lane than they are in Beyonce's lane. Thanks for proving my point.

Originally posted by jose168

And she's just getting started. You covering your ears and yelling lalalala won't change that

Beyonce has been at this for almost TWENTY years. Just getting started where? Go sit down.

[C.Damen]

The essays in here.



Are we trying to break the record for that other thread?

[Ascension]

Bey's catalog is deeply entrenched in multiple forms of black music, but we can't act like she didn't catch heat from the ol' crabs in barrel shea butter peddling/incense burning set of the urban community -- just like Whitney did -- for being "too pop" at times or not being soulful enough because she didn't sing like a loud 300 lb praise break church soloist about strugglin' n' strife.

The criticism Whitney got from the community mirrors a lot of what Bey got and it was BS on both counts. And Whitney had her personal struggles, but I don't see how that deflates what she did; in fact the fact that she has such staggering accomplishments even while completely derailing for years is really crazy. You don't have to disrespect her legacy to uplift Bey's, just saying.

[jose168]

Originally posted by Mr. Wonder

My Love Is Your Love featured 3 top ten Hot 100 hits and sold upwards of 10 million copies.

If that's a flop, what do you call an album that sold less than half of that and featured 2 less top ten hits? Dare we not even compare their international success.

payola
its forgotten
and was not in the 20 biggest albums of its year.

a flop.
lemonade is still the second biggest album of 2016.

[PrettyHurts]

Originally posted by Floyd Mayweather

It's still part of her career. That much can't be taken away.

They want DC to be irrelevant to Bey's success so bad, as if it's not common knowledge that she was driving force behind the group It will always be apart of her legacy and can never be erased

[Soapp]

Where was Mariah 20 years in her career? Struggling to scrape Gold and not being able to sell out theaters and auditoriums on her critically panned Angels Advocate Tour. Bey is selling out stadiums worldwide, getting the highest first week sales of all females, media coverage, and having a blockbuster album with half the promo that Mariah would have had.

[T.C]

Originally posted by jose168

payola
its forgotten
and was not in the 20 biggest albums of its year.

a flop.
lemonade is still the second biggest album of 2016.

Maybe not in the US

Check worldwide certifications boo


Examples:
3x platinum in the U.K.
4x platinum in Europe
Platinum in Japan