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Discussion: Has Beyoncé already surpassed Mariah and Whitney?
Member Since: 5/27/2016
Posts: 2,816
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Member Since: 8/22/2011
Posts: 490
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On the other hand, Beyonce wasn't even the most successful and impactful singer of her generation.
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Member Since: 8/7/2015
Posts: 8,482
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Quote:
Originally posted by Alexz
To be fair Beyoncé was a nobody for an entire decade.
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**** outta here
Beyoncé been that bitch since Survivor which was in 01.
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Member Since: 2/17/2012
Posts: 33,611
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s/t and Lemonade have DEFINITELY changed and influenced so many people in the music industry (way more than just how they were released). Also her style of singing changed the sound of R&B in the early 2000s (compared to the belting and whispering that was huge in R&B/pop in the 90s, the sorta fast paced super sharp singing was a new style). @Chimier.
That's just the tip of the iceberg
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Member Since: 8/7/2015
Posts: 9,735
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Hell no 
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Member Since: 5/27/2016
Posts: 2,717
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Quote:
Originally posted by Alexz
To be fair Beyoncé was a nobody for an entire decade.
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You wish she was a nobody. Lol
She's been outselling certain girls since her debut and continue doing so 
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Member Since: 8/19/2013
Posts: 4,395
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Quote:
Originally posted by Chimier
The answer is no. A strong no, a loud no, a resonant no, a damn sure near-eternal NO.
Let's start off with the fact that Whitney Houston is by far the most influential female vocalist of the past three decades, followed by Mariah. Beyonce does not come close.
Success goes without saying.
Anyone who thinks Beyonce has surpassed Whitney or Mariah in cultural significance or impact:
a) doesn't know what cultural impact is
b) needs to go and do research
c) is just talking for the sake of talking
d) all of the above.
Mariah Carey defined an entire decade of music. A decade. Then had perhaps the greatest comeback in recent history and ended the decade topping everyone...AGAIN. This is a woman whose vocal style has been imitated for the best part of almost three decades. This is a woman who has conquered not just her own home continent, but another on the other side of the world. This is a woman who is the top hitmaker out of all her peers.
Whitney Houston: there simply hasn't been and never will be again. This was a black female singer who outdid her white and male peers on the charts without any effort. This was a woman who shattered barriers for the female singer, the black singer, the pop singer and the R&B singer. This was a woman who set the standard for singing in the modern era and still holds it. Beyonce has not done any of these things, thus she cannot have surpassed Whitney in cultural significance.
The significance of Whitney Houston lies in the fact that she symbolizes the Civil Rights dream: everything coming together. She combined the old with the new and forged a new path and reached unsurpassed heights. Unsurpassed. She conquered music, Hollywood AND television. Another thing Beyonce has not done. She might be the closest in her generation to Whitney in terms of status, but even she doesn't come close.
In terms of media presence, Beyonce benefits from formats that Whitney and Mariah did not have, so you can't even really compare them in that either, especially seeing as how Whitney and Mariah were two the top-selling female artists of their time EFFORTLESSLY. Their entire star power came from their music success and popularity, and out of all the big divas of the 90s, only Whitney was able to successfully translate that success into other entertainment formats. No one else has done it since.
In terms of acclaim, again, you cannot compare. Retrospect has changed a lot of the narrative that was delivered about Whitney and Mariah. In their heyday, a specific type of critic dismissed their work as lacking substance and soul, and while acknowledging their vocal prowess, also dismissed their singing has having no substance and soul. Fast-forward a few decades later, and it's become quite a different story, especially in light of how music has changed so much (and for the worse, according to a lot of people).
You all like to get very excited when your favorite artists are being showered with praise, and that's absolutely fine, but 99% of the time, you also like to rewrite history with a very myopic and shallow outlook. You make grand statements w/o any kind of receipts or substance to back them up, thinking your "stan talk" is enough. Try coming with facts. If you can post on ATRL, you can go on Google and research.
P.S. Cultural impact does not equate to 200 articles written about your fav's latest album. Cultural impact refers to the effects of an artist's work on the culture, usually being reflected in the artist's influence and/or referenced in other media formats.
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Member Since: 12/1/2011
Posts: 24,324
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Quote:
Originally posted by AwardLegend
You wish she was a nobody. Lol
She's been outselling certain girls since her debut and continue doing so |
this must sting for the poor girl. back to the treadmill!
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Member Since: 3/11/2011
Posts: 1,716
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Quote:
Originally posted by jose168
lets not act like whitney didnt whitewash her music and demeanor for mainstream appeal. Beyonce has defined the last 10 years and is the pivotal example of a performer. She is THE performer of the millenium and influential to millions of women, particularly women of color. Everyone in the world knows who beyonce is, and outside of the small amount of people who hate her because she is SO revered, she is respected by everyone. She is much bigger than whitney and that will continue because she won't ruin her legacy becoming a cokehead. She will die one of the most respected musicians of all time
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#1- For Whitney to have "whitewashed" her music, that would mean she would have been performing music that was mostly white in nature. She wasn't and she didn't. The criticism of her being "whitewashed" came from black critics who were upset at her crossover success, and white critics, who wanted her to do completely R&B and soul music, not because her music was actually "white". Pop music is a derivative of ROCK AND ROLL, a BLACK genre. So that's dead.
As for "whitewashing" her demeanor, not quite. It's called assimilation. They tone down the "black" parts of themselves when operating in mostly-white spaces. Whitney did it, Janet does it, Beyonce does it. It's what a lot of black people in successful positions do. It's an unspoken rule and requirement due to the racist nature of society.
#2- What you said about Beyonce in no way refutes the facts about Whitney. Beyonce being the performer of her generation. Cool beans. Whitney was and is the singer of hers and more. Beyonce is. influential. Amazing. So was and is Whitney.
#3- Even with her drug addiction and her death, Whitney Houston is still one of the most beloved and respected artists to have ever lived. Drug addiction only truly polarized the masses, and in most cases, they get over it and move on. So I don't know what point you're trying to make here.
Basically, all you did to try refute my point about Whitney was say "Beyonce is successful and influential too, never "whitewashed" her music and is not a drug addict". Wow. You've really shown me.
Quote:
Originally posted by jose168
My Love is your love (13th year into her career) was a flop. Lemonade was a massive success.
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Initially, it was. But then, in the next year, it had gone 4x platinum, sold 10-13 million copies worldwide, and spawned the biggest European tour of 1999. Meaning...it was a slow-burner, but it was consistent when the flame really hit.
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Member Since: 6/13/2012
Posts: 2,065
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Quote:
Originally posted by jose168
lets not act like whitney didnt whitewash her music and demeanor for mainstream appeal. Beyonce has defined the last 10 years and is the pivotal example of a performer. She is THE performer of the millenium and influential to millions of women, particularly women of color. Everyone in the world knows who beyonce is, and outside of the small amount of people who hate her because she is SO revered, she is respected by everyone. She is much bigger than whitney and that will continue because she won't ruin her legacy becoming a cokehead. She will die one of the most respected musicians of all time
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How did she whitewash her music? Yall kill me typecasting black artist into only being able to do one style of music. Literally all your post are dumb and make no sense.
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Member Since: 5/27/2016
Posts: 6,345
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Quote:
Originally posted by Alexz
To be fair Beyoncé was a nobody for an entire decade.
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Member Since: 8/16/2011
Posts: 19,718
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Quote:
Originally posted by madonnas
s/t and Lemonade have DEFINITELY changed and influenced so many people in the music industry (way more than just how they were released). Also her style of singing changed the sound of R&B in the early 2000s. @Chimier.
That's just the tip of the iceberg
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Buuuuut. It's not on the Whitney and Mariah SCALE though. Lets be intellectually honest. Those two inspired an entire generation of vocalist. Beyonce is floating somewhere between Madonna & Whitney/Mariah which is a tough place to be. Cause she's synthesizing the best of it all into one package, but that path isn't accessible to many people. It's pretty niche.
Who else can deliver EVERYTHING like that? Artistic exploration, talent, beauty, fame, business acumen, and humility (all 3 aforementioned women were notoriously bitches hehe). It's not an easy path to follow her down. The scope of her influence will stop where most people's work ethic begins.
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Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 3,457
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She has definitely surpassed Mariah.
But Whitney was just on another level.
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Member Since: 12/1/2011
Posts: 24,324
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Quote:
Originally posted by Chimier
#1- For Whitney to have "whitewashed" her music, that would mean she would have been performing music that was mostly white in nature. She wasn't and she didn't. The criticism of her being "whitewashed" came from white critics who were upset at her crossover success, not because her music was actually "white".
As for "whitewashing" her demeanor, not quite. It's called assimilation. They tone down the "black" parts of themselves when operating in mostly-white spaces. Whitney did it, Janet does it, Beyonce does it. It's what a lot of black people in successful positions do. It's an unspoken rule and requirement due to the racist nature of society.
#2- What you said about Beyonce in no way refutes the facts about Whitney. Beyonce being the performer of her generation. Cool beans. Whitney was and is the singer of hers and more. Beyonce is. influential. Amazing. So was and is Whitney.
#3- Even with her drug addiction and her death, Whitney Houston is still one of the most beloved and respected artists to have ever lived. Drug addiction only truly polarized the masses, and in most cases, they get over it and move on. So I don't know what point you're trying to make here.
Basically, you've tried to refute my point about Whitney with "Beyonce is successful and influential too, never "whitewashed" her music and is not a drug addict". Wow. You've really shown me.
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so "whitney is influential" overwrites beyonce but "beyonce is influential" doesn't overwrite whitney? You're so biased, and not only that stuck in time like every other whitney or janet stan. rip the stan goggles off and look into the 21st century. Beyonce the performer and beyonce the role model are far bigger than whitney the singer. Theres a reason why theres a trio for singers that are compareable (whitney celine and mariah) and only one beyoncé. She's in her own lane. And she's just getting started. You covering your ears and yelling lalalala won't change that
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Member Since: 1/18/2012
Posts: 14,652
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Quote:
Originally posted by jose168
My Love is your love (13th year into her career) was a flop. Lemonade was a massive success.
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MLIYL some 13 million
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Member Since: 5/2/2012
Posts: 15,418
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Quote:
Originally posted by Alexz
To be fair Beyoncé was a nobody for an entire decade.
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Britney stans love peddling this lie. I wonder why?
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Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 21,331
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Quote:
Originally posted by phonpei05
Beyoncé's PR TEAM surpassed Mariah and Whitney along time ago, before she was born to begin with.
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I guess her """PR team""" sings and performs for her
Let's not ignore that Beyoncé is revered for her talent
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Member Since: 4/27/2012
Posts: 9,977
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Whitny is overrated here cause she's dead.
She never had big tours. And the excuse 'she's a vocalist and not a performer' no more again pls, (thanks Adele). She was a FAD, 0 memorable eras.
Recently she was ignored by CNN in its special. And last week in the PBS documentary about music she wasn't mentioned (Beyonce was included). This speaks volumes about her real 'impact'. And ofc her music was never acclaimed to begin with.
Mariah basically is just one thing here these days. No explanation needed.
Quote:
Originally posted by Sunshine.
Literally, all she would need is one super huge album along the lines of 21 or 25. She's surpassed them in most other fields.
I know it's hard for ATRLers, and the GP in general, to look past commercial success. So until that happens, let's just go with no. If you need more convincing, just ask the same question and replace it with Adele. She has half the years and achievements as Beyonce on her, but it's easier to say yes because her sales are so spectacular.
Sales matter in these kinds of analysis.
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Absolutely not true. B will always be placed above both of them by the critics, media and the people. Lets be real ..
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Member Since: 12/1/2011
Posts: 24,324
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Quote:
Originally posted by T.C
MLIYL some 13 million
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those numbers are inflated and really really bad for late 1990s following a smash era. Lemonade is the second biggest album of 2016. What was MLIYL? 20somthing? A forgotten flop
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Member Since: 4/28/2012
Posts: 37,654
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Not quite yet, no, but by the looks of it, she is well on her way to surpassing both eventually.
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