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Discussion: UK may join European Economic Area | EU Referendum
Member Since: 4/4/2014
Posts: 17,141
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Quote:
Originally posted by geo
In the Scottish independence referendum, it was not the Yes Scotland campaign who drafted the plan for Scottish independence. It was the Scottish Government, the people that would actually have had the authority to implement it.
Similarly, Vote Leave was a cross-party campaign, not a government in waiting. The position we're in now is on Cameron, not them.
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This is absolutely ridiculous and you know it. The Yes Scotland campaign and the Scottish Government was the exact same thing as the SNP had an overall majority 
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Member Since: 11/30/2011
Posts: 2,986
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Quote:
Originally posted by RihannaRTT
This is absolutely ridiculous and you know it. The Yes Scotland campaign and the Scottish Government was the exact same thing as the SNP had an overall majority |
The SNP supported the Yes Scotland campaign. They were not the same thing though. Yes Scotland also included the Green Party and Scottish Socialists, who were pro-independence, as well as pro-independence wings of other parties and groups.
As I said, it was the SNP alone who drew up the plan for independence (the white paper), not the Yes Scotland campaign.
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Member Since: 8/19/2013
Posts: 39,572
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Quote:
Originally posted by LadyDiana
euro is not the one I am worried about sis
btw papers are starting to report that the UK is actually bluffing  if they really wanted out they would have triggered Article 50 as soon as possible and start the "divorce", BUT it seems like no one is in the rush?! Even BoJo has said that he has no problem with open markets and free movement, meaning he has no problem with EU, witch brings us back to the fact that this all mess was just a inner political fight, and EU was a slaughterlamb... |
That's Boris for you! He did too well and now he's f***ed over himself, his party, the country, and the continent. That loveable overachiever. 
We are gonna leave, though.
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Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 6,430
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Of course Article 50 needs to be triggered. Most of the leave voters probably are from working class backgrounds that lets be honest does not really trust our government. On top of the "lies" they were fed during the referendum and if Article 50 is not going to be triggered I see a lot of hate towards government no matter who's in.
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Banned
Member Since: 5/27/2016
Posts: 4,870
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Quote:
Originally posted by monsterLd
Of course Article 50 needs to be triggered. Most of the leave voters probably are from working class backgrounds that lets be honest does not really trust our government. On top of the "lies" they were fed during the referendum and if Article 50 is not going to be triggered I see a lot of hate towards government no matter who's in.
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This!
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Member Since: 4/4/2014
Posts: 17,141
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Quote:
Originally posted by geo
The SNP supported the Yes Scotland campaign. They were not the same thing though. Yes Scotland also included the Green Party and Scottish Socialists, who were pro-independence, as well as pro-independence wings of other parties and groups.
As I said, it was the SNP who drew up the plan for independence, not the Yes Scotland campaign.
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That doesn't matter. the SNP themselves had an overall majority. The Green Party weren't important whatsoever. The charge was lead by Alex Sammond; who was also the first minister of Scotland. The SNP were the Yes Scotland campaign; the Green party were just cheerleaders.
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Member Since: 5/27/2016
Posts: 624
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We'd be in a better state rn if our politicians hadn't thrown a hissy fit across several parties. An actual disaster that has managed to make the situation even worse, l m a o.
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Member Since: 4/6/2014
Posts: 10,308
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Quote:
Originally posted by monsterLd
Of course Article 50 needs to be triggered. Most of the leave voters probably are from working class backgrounds that lets be honest does not really trust our government. On top of the "lies" they were fed during the referendum and if Article 50 is not going to be triggered I see a lot of hate towards government no matter who's in.
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Don't be silly those weren't lies. They were just merely stating possibilities 
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Member Since: 11/30/2011
Posts: 2,986
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Quote:
Originally posted by RihannaRTT
That doesn't matter. the SNP themselves had an overall majority. The Green Party weren't important whatsoever. The charge was lead by Alex Sammond; who was also the first minister of Scotland. The SNP were the Yes Scotland campaign; the Green party were just cheerleaders.
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You clearly don't understand.
Political campaigns ≠ political parties.
The Scottish Government had the responsibility to plan for an independent Scotland. Whether that was the SNP or another party is irrelevant. Just like the Government now had a responsibility to plan for Brexit.
Yes Scotland's role was convincing the people to vote for independence. Just like Vote Leave's role was convincing the people to vote Leave. They both had no responsibility to plan for the aftermath.
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Member Since: 4/4/2014
Posts: 17,141
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Quote:
Originally posted by geo
You clearly don't understand.
Political campaigns ≠ political parties.
The Scottish Government had the responsibility to plan for an independent Scotland. Whether that was the SNP or another party is irrelevant. Just like the Government now had a responsibility to plan for Brexit.
Yes Scotland's role was convincing the people to vote for independence. Just like Vote Leave's role was convincing the people to vote Leave. They both had no responsibility to plan for the aftermath. |
No, you don't understand. Do you even know what the SNP is?
The SNP's main aim IS Scottish Independence. There's a reason they had plans ready.
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Member Since: 11/30/2011
Posts: 2,986
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Quote:
Originally posted by RihannaRTT
No, you don't understand. Do you even know what the SNP is?
The SNP's main aim IS Scottish Independence. There's a reason they had plans ready.
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Yes, and I'm saying it doesn't matter if the government was pro-independence or not. If Scottish Labour was in power at the time of the referendum, they would have also had the responsibility to plan for independence even if they weren't personally in favour.
It's just common sense to plan for both outcomes, and Cameron failed to do so.
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Member Since: 8/19/2013
Posts: 39,572
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I think we can all agree that planning for both outcomes would have been for the best. They've clearly got contingency plans to keep us afloat anyway, I think we can buy ourselves enough time.
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Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 7,705
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Quote:
Originally posted by geo
Most people voted Leave in the knowledge there would be an immediate economic shock. But they also did it in the knowledge that future generations would be better off.
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you do realise that "these initial shocks" are so severe that even if by some miracle pounds gets this moment back at the level it was last week, consequences will be felt for years, and if the cards are not played right the crisis will escalate with time, 2008 shock was not felt next week, it was feelt next year and stayed pretty much till today. I really do hope leave delieveres whatever you hoped it will deliver for you, I really do, but this is the reality
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Member Since: 4/4/2014
Posts: 17,141
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Quote:
Originally posted by geo
Yes, and I'm saying it doesn't matter if the government was pro-independence or not. If Scottish Labour was in power at the time of the referendum, they would have also had the responsibility to plan for independence even if they weren't personally in favour.
It's just common sense to plan for both outcomes, and Cameron failed to do so.
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No they wouldn't have. You can't have someone plan for something they're not committed to. You don't want someone who's against the outcome to go through with it and end up failing/not giving it their all. It was obvious that Cameron would resign - and everyone knew this prior to the referendum as they were discussing it throughout the results and there was an open letter from conservative MPs going around at the start of the week. It's not Cameron's fault that the leave campaign were too focused on "lets get these muslims out of our country" than thinking of the consequences The leave campaign should be left to deal with the mess they created. I'm sure Nigel Farage will jump at the chance to put plans in place.
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Member Since: 11/30/2011
Posts: 2,986
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Quote:
Originally posted by RihannaRTT
No they wouldn't have. You can't have someone plan for something they're not committed to. You don't want someone who's against the outcome to go through with it and end up failing/not giving it their all. It was obvious that Cameron would resign - and everyone knew this prior to the referendum as they were discussing it throughout the results and there was an open letter from conservative MPs going around at the start of the week. It's not Cameron's fault that the leave campaign were too focused on "lets get these muslims out of our country" than thinking of the consequences The leave campaign should be left to deal with the mess they created. I'm sure Nigel Farage will jump at the chance to put plans in place. |
All the things wrong with this post. 
Even if David Cameron didn't want to plan for it himself, he should have worked with people who were pro-Brexit to put plans in place. There were more than 100 Conservative MPs who would have been perfectly happy to work on it. As Prime Minister it was his responsibility to ensure we weren't going to be left in the dark. Even despite his resignation it would have meant that we could have got the ball rolling pretty much immediately and a much smoother transition of power.
Nigel Farage isn't even an MP.
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Member Since: 4/4/2011
Posts: 2,385
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Quote:
Originally posted by geo
Yes, and I'm saying it doesn't matter if the government was pro-independence or not. If Scottish Labour was in power at the time of the referendum, they would have also had the responsibility to plan for independence even if they weren't personally in favour.
It's just common sense to plan for both outcomes, and Cameron failed to do so.
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Cameron is a failure to be honest. He most definitely to blame for this mess.
Anyway, The Remain campaign was absolutely terrible. As days go on, the more I am content with a Leave win. If he wanted to win, he should have been much more positive AND address people's perceived issues with the EU. The campaign did neither, and to top it all off they put the opinion of Big Business for staying in the EU. The UK like everywhere else in the western world has a huge issue with income inequality so that should have been an immediate red flag to put their opinion out there like that.
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Member Since: 4/4/2014
Posts: 17,141
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Quote:
Originally posted by geo
All the things wrong with this post.
Even if David Cameron didn't want to plan for it himself, he should have worked with people who were pro-Brexit to put plans in place. There were more than 100 Conservative MPs who would have been perfectly happy to work on it. As Prime Minister it was his responsibility to ensure we weren't going to be left in the dark. Even despite his resignation it would have meant that we could have got the ball rolling pretty much immediately and a much smoother transition of power.
Nigel Farage isn't even an MP. |
So where are they now?
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Member Since: 8/19/2013
Posts: 39,572
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mean Trees
Cameron is a failure to be honest. He most definitely to blame for this mess. The Remain campaign was absolutely terrible. As time as gone on, the more I am content with a Leave win. If he wanted to win, he should have been much more positive AND address people's perceived issues with the EU. The campaign did neither, and to top it all off they put the opinion of Big Business front and centre.
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Right? 'Here are the bankers and fat cats you all hate so very much. They want to Remain. I bet this swayed you  [x100]' was never going to work.
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Member Since: 11/30/2011
Posts: 2,986
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Quote:
Originally posted by RihannaRTT
So where are they now?
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Gearing up for a leadership contest, presumably. None of them have been given the authority to do anything yet. Cameron is in Number 10 like a sitting duck.
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Member Since: 4/4/2014
Posts: 17,141
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Quote:
Originally posted by geo
Gearing up for a leadership contest, presumably. None of them have been given the authority to do anything yet. Cameron is in Number 10 like a sitting duck.
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and how many of those are going to go through with it Weren't people in this thread already saying Boris Johnson was trying to get away with not doing it, despite his obvious attempt at becoming the next PM
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