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Discussion: UK may join European Economic Area | EU Referendum
Member Since: 4/6/2014
Posts: 10,308
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Quote:
Originally posted by geo
I'm fed up of people quoting Nigel Farage and saying it's "promises broken."
- First of all, Nigel Farage was NOT part of the official designated Vote Leave campaign. He backed the unofficial Leave.EU, which was a campaign more based on immigration and honestly actual xenophobia. Vote Leave was much more civilised and reasonable, and tried to distance themselves from Farage as much as possible.
- Secondly, this was not a general election. Vote Leave were a campaign group simply saying what could be done with our money post-Brexit. We were not electing Vote Leave into government. What happens with the money we save from EU membership fees is now down to us, and what government we elect.
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1 Whether he was not part of the official designated vote leave campaign doesn't matter. He was vocal and prominent and only remembered that the 350 million claim was a "mistake" conveniently after Leave won, not once has he corrected that claim during his campaign.
2: good luck saving EU membership fees, if you want a Norway model you still pay 80% of that amount but you get to watch from the sidelines. Lemme break down for you what actually has happened:
* UK has given up a 16% voting share and veto powers to one of the worlds largest trading blocs.
* You still going to have to accept 70-90% of EU rulings in order to be in the EEA.
(For anyone wondering what the EEA is: European Economic Area is the area in which the Agreement on the EEA provides for the free movement of persons, goods, services and capital within the internal market of the European Union)
*UK will still going to have to accept free movement of people in order to be in the EFTA.
Again EFTA: an intergovernmental trade organisation and free trade area consisting of four European states: Iceland, Liechtenstein, Norway, and Switzerland.[ The organisation operates in parallel with the European Union (EU).
* Your farmers and fishermen all over the UK are going to have to survive without CAP.
CAP: a system of agricultural subsidies and other programmes.
* No more EU research grants for British Universities.
* No more EU structural funds for places like Wales and Cornwall and other high tier areas in the UK that EU invested in and Westminster ****ed over
(think of campuses, roads, facilities where youth can get a skill etc)
Remember the EU making sure roaming costs are going to be slashed to regular tariffs? You not getting them anymore unless UK manages somehow to get the same agreements.
https://www.theguardian.com/money/20...-slashed-phone
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Member Since: 6/22/2012
Posts: 26,585
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Quote:
Originally posted by geo
We will be able to deliver more funding for the NHS if the public elect a government that wants to increase funding for the NHS. It's really not that difficult  |
The government will now have to fund the various projects that the EU was funding, so I doubt they'll be able to do that.
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Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 7,705
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Quote:
Originally posted by geo
We will be able to deliver more funding for the NHS if the public elect a government that wants to increase funding for the NHS. It's really not that difficult |
not when you make such a distress to the markets that causes job losses, market crashes, pound dropping, money just wanishes what u and leave camp (official or not|) are saying makes no sence, that's not how economy functions  I do hope you are young and won't need NHS for a long time
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ATRL Contributor
Member Since: 8/19/2013
Posts: 59,202
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Waiting for the day geo posts "Oh ****" tbh
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Member Since: 4/6/2014
Posts: 10,308
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Quote:
Originally posted by BlazingLovatic
The government will now have to fund the various projects that the EU was funding, so I doubt they'll be able to do that. |
The government will save London and the banks/ banking system and once again the rest will have to sort themselves out.
Which is why it's so unbelievable Wales said leave, who is gonna pay for them now? 500 mil was pumped into Wales.
If that funding stops and UK is out of the EU, what will make the companies that set up shop there and not Poland for example due to the subsidies stay there?
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Member Since: 11/30/2011
Posts: 2,986
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Nigel Farage was little more than a supporter of Vote Leave. What he says on the "promises" they made (none were actually made, because they had no authority to do so) is irrelevant.
I'm not going to get into discussing the UK's future relationship with the EU, because there are various possibilities. It's nowhere near as simple as saying we're going to join the EEA and be done with it.
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Member Since: 11/30/2011
Posts: 2,986
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Quote:
Originally posted by BlazingLovatic
The government will now have to fund the various projects that the EU was funding, so I doubt they'll be able to do that. |
We're a net contributor to the EU, nobody disputes that. So theoretically the government should be able to subsidise with the loss of EU funding as soon as we leave. Whether you think our economy will fall so far long-term that we'll actually lose more than we gain from leaving the EU is another matter entirely, I don't believe it will.
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Member Since: 11/30/2011
Posts: 2,986
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Quote:
Originally posted by SorryI'mLuke
Waiting for the day geo posts "Oh ****" tbh |
Never. 
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Member Since: 4/6/2014
Posts: 10,308
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Quote:
Originally posted by geo
We're a net contributor to the EU, nobody disputes that. So theoretically the government should be able to subsidise with the loss of EU funding as soon as we leave. Whether you think our economy will fall so far long-term that we'll actually lose more than we gain from leaving the EU is another matter entirely, I don't believe it will.
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Yes but if you want to trade you will still have to pay like Norway about 80% (don't pin me on the exact number) for example to be able to trade AND pick up the funding that the EU did for you for the poorer regions (looking at the past, how likely is that going to happen?) while still accepting the free movement.
And that's leaving other trade deals out, cause those you will have have to negotiate on your own terms.
Well if you don't want to trade with the EU, that's also fine, I suspect it should not be expensive to trade with Saint Kitts and Nevis, Grenada, Barbados, Saint Vincent and the Grenadines.
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Member Since: 11/30/2011
Posts: 2,986
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Quote:
Originally posted by GypsyLife
Yes but if you want to trade you will still have to pay like Norway about 80% (don't pin me on the exact number) for example to be able to trade AND pick up the funding that the EU did for you for the poorer regions (looking at the past, how likely is that going to happen?) while still accepting the free movement.
And that's leaving other trade deals out, cause those you will have have to negotiate on your own terms.
Well if you don't want to trade with the EU, that's also fine, I suspect it should not be expensive to trade with Saint Kitts and Nevis, Grenada, Barbados, Saint Vincent and the Grenadines.
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As I said, I don't think we'll be taking the Norway model, or Switzerland's for that matter. We'll probably have our own free trade deal that gives us restricted access to the single market but also allows us more controls over immigration.
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Member Since: 4/6/2014
Posts: 10,308
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Quote:
Originally posted by geo
As I said, I don't think we'll be taking the Norway model, or Switzerland's for that matter. We'll probably have our own free trade deal that gives us restricted access to the single market but also allows us more controls over immigration.
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Well yes you will have your own free trade deal cause you voted to be out of the EU. However if you want to keep trading with the EU it's gonna cost money and you will have to obide to the regulations we have, unless you want to stop exporting to a market of +500 milion people. That is the whole point of this thing.
Edit: Actually you could be spending more then before since you had a rebate. Why not let you pull full price as the EU has more leverage on the UK?
Don't think they will let it come down to that and be a complete arsehole to you guys but if it goes back to the original numbers you'll pay more than now.
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Member Since: 11/30/2011
Posts: 2,986
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Quote:
Originally posted by GypsyLife
Well yes you will have your own free trade deal cause you voted to be out of the EU. However if you want to keep trading with the EU it's gonna cost money and you will have to obide to the regulations we have, unless you want to stop exporting to a market of +500 milion people. That is the whole point of this thing.
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Of course. I just think we'll be paying a lot less than 80% of our current membership fee. Norway is an EU member in all but voting rights, I highly doubt we'll be as closely connected as that, otherwise there was no point having the vote.
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Member Since: 6/22/2012
Posts: 26,585
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Quote:
Originally posted by geo
We're a net contributor to the EU, nobody disputes that. So theoretically the government should be able to subsidise with the loss of EU funding as soon as we leave. Whether you think our economy will fall so far long-term that we'll actually lose more than we gain from leaving the EU is another matter entirely, I don't believe it will.
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Those 'net contributor' calculations only take into account the public sector spending of the EU, not its private sector spending in the UK.
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Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 14,321
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Norway is practically EU in all but name, the government gets around the people voting no to joining in the past by passing their bills one at a time. The Swiss public get full say because any bill, big or small, can be appealed through a referendum if enough signatures are collected.
Unless you've got a constant referendum system in place in the future, it's looking more like you'll be a Norway (sneaking in laws a little at a time).
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Member Since: 4/6/2014
Posts: 10,308
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Quote:
Originally posted by geo
Of course. I just think we'll be paying a lot less than 80% of our current membership fee. Norway is an EU member in all but voting rights, I highly doubt we'll be as closely connected as that, otherwise there was no point having the vote.
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Norway is not in the EU because they don't want to be in the EU, simple as that.
You can read here about the Norwegian model. If you don't want to be this close with the EU what on earth do you want?
We pay, but have no say: that’s the reality of Norway’s relationship with the EU
https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...orwegian-model
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Member Since: 8/29/2009
Posts: 3,772
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Quote:
Originally posted by Reader
I'm half-German. German people buy German, unlike the UK who are not as nationalistic in that way. I'm just talking manufacturing/industry, not nationalistic generally.
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Germany is the 3rd biggest exporting country on the planet. For many years, tiny Germany was the biggest exporting country, leading the US (which is as big as entire Europe and has 320 million inhabitants) and China (which is also as big as Europe and has 1,2 billion people)...
Going back into history, it was the UK which demanded German products to be branded "made in germany" so British people wouldn't buy them and buy British products instead. However, the inventor of the industrial revolution (England) couldn't foresee that Germany would win in that revolution too, becoming the biggest economy the continent has ever seen (also the most stable one).
So, in the end, it is pretty hard to escape German products bc they are simply outstanding, hence Germany's standing as the world's 3rd largest exporting nation right now (with the highest trade surplus in the world).
Chemicals, Cars, hard machineries, micro-electronics... (and of course pencils), Germany has one of the most vital industries in the world.
Losing the UK would be devastating for Germany, but at the same time, losing German products (world leading products) would also be pretty hard for the UK. And then, the UK would also lose the whole continent and its benefits.. bc believe it or not, France is the world's 6th largest economy as well.
But instead of applying some reason, empire nostalgia and xenophobic thinking won the public over and turned the UK into an international threat.
I really hope you get the best deal possible, but I also hope that you will regret leaving and believing all the lies you've been fed.
For the first time in history, it's actually not Germany harming Europe, it's the United Kingdom.
proud much?
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Member Since: 8/19/2013
Posts: 39,572
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Is it weird that I'm taking this opportunity to learn more languages
I'm already fluent in English and can speak good German/Spanish and now I'm decent at understanding (not reading) French/Esperanto. I started preparing a while back and this is actually really fun
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Member Since: 11/30/2011
Posts: 2,986
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Quote:
Originally posted by GypsyLife
Norway is not in the EU because they don't want to be in the EU, simple as that.
You can read here about the Norwegian model. If you don't want to be this close with the EU what on earth do you want?
We pay, but have no say: that’s the reality of Norway’s relationship with the EU
https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...orwegian-model |
Norway is basically an EU member but they're stubborn about it so have no say. The difference is, we will want a looser connection to the EU than that and that's why the Norway model won't work for us. If it loses us direct access to the single market, I guess that's something that will have to be negotiated. 
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Member Since: 8/19/2013
Posts: 31,020
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It's such a mess. The fact that they have been campaigning for something so hard yet now that they won they have no plan whatsoever  such a joke
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Member Since: 4/6/2014
Posts: 10,308
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Quote:
Originally posted by Nialler
It's such a mess. The fact that they have been campaigning for something so hard yet now that they won they have no plan whatsoever such a joke |
I bet you thought you were funny with that statement but it's not just funny, it's also correct:
http://news.sky.com/video/1717859/is...no-brexit-plan
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