[Wonderland]

Originally posted by Moonchild

A presidential candidate is only elected if he or she wins a majority, not a plurality, of the electoral college. 270 is the magic number. If no candidate wins a majority of the electoral college, the election is decided in the House, and each state has one vote.

This electoral process is written out in the U.S. Constitution, and it inherently creates a two-party system. Viable third parties are not going to happen unless they supplant a party already in power.

The whole damn system just needs to go or at least seriously adapt. It's so undemocratic and the amount of wasted vote is just... staggering

But because it's all tied up in the constitution you'd need both Dems and Reps to agree it needs to change.. I guess that'll never happen though I feel the best opportunity to have a discussion around it would seem to be now with the whole Trump mess going on in the Republicans.

[Moonchild]

Originally posted by Wonderland

Sigh.

Constitutions are the ****ing pits.. they always end up outdated

They do, but there's not much we can realistically do about it.

[heckinglovato]

Bernie's candidacy is more than a "Cool Grandpa type candidate" to his supporters, but I'm not surprised this is coming from the same individual who thinks solid mellenial involvement in the political process and having young people take over the politics which will shape up their futures to be "absolutely horrifying".

I'm happy the Secretary would condemn both statements, especially the latter, passionately.

[Wonderland]

Originally posted by Moonchild

They do, but there's not much we can realistically do about it.

Yeah. New Zealand is so lucky they don't have one nnn

I mean they're good for entrenching rights... but that's about all they should really do as you just don't know what's going to happen 200 odd years into the future.

[Wafflecakes]

Originally posted by B94

I don't agree, but to each is there own. Even if Hillary won the primary, she falls flat near Trump unless that were to change out of the blue. Bernie supporters are very stubborn and unwilling to switch over to Hillary. Which consists primarily independents, millennials, and non trump republicans. So it's not like if Bernie lost the primary they'd flock to Hill. There's a decent chance of Trump winning which I hope doesn't happen.

The U.S. electoral system has no way in for a 3rd party candidate to actually win, and the universally end up actually helping the people on the other side politically. (See election of 1912)

It has nothing to do with "to each is there own", and has everything to do with a basic understanding of how the U.S. electoral system works.


You are also wrong about dems not coalescing around Hillary. Polls run now and in 2008 show that there was far more animosity between the supporters of the top candidates than there is now, yet everyone came around to Obama in the end, just like they will this cycle.

Inverse is true as well. If Bernie pulls a miracle and wins the nomination Hillary supporters will rally to him in the general.

[LuLuDrops]

WHO comes up with these?

[Wafflecakes]

Ugh. Bernie fan's rationalizations as to why Bernie is going to win NY and California basically boil down to this:

"Bernie can't win unless he wins California and New York, therefor Bernie is definitely going to win California and New York."

I may quit twitter for a few months.

[Wonderland]

Originally posted by LuLuDrops

WHO comes up with these?

I am done

[Wonderland]

Originally posted by Wafflecakes

Ugh. Bernie fan's rationalizations as to why Bernie is going to win NY and California basically boil down to this:



I may quit twitter for a few months.

A football coach reply tea

[Ramcoro]

Originally posted by Moonchild

The two-party system is created by our electoral process in the Constitution. An amendment changing the electoral process is literally never going to happen, so we're not getting rid of the two-party system.

If by electoral process you mean winner take all voting, then yes you are right. It isn't the electoral colleges fault though.

Originally posted by Wonderland

The whole damn system just needs to go or at least seriously adapt. It's so undemocratic and the amount of wasted vote is just... staggering

But because it's all tied up in the constitution you'd need both Dems and Reps to agree it needs to change.. I guess that'll never happen though I feel the best opportunity to have a discussion around it would seem to be now with the whole Trump mess going on in the Republicans.

Yea, but until that happens. 3rd party is pretty much a waste.

[Temporal]

Originally posted by LuLuDrops

WHO comes up with these?

They're too good

[LuLuDrops]

Same person on my Facebook

Oh my god

[Wonderland]

Originally posted by Ramcoro

Yea, but until that happens. 3rd party is pretty much a waste.

It's just such a frustrating situation for me (and I'm a total outsider looking in on the US ) as I know just historically, the only times countries have bothered to revise their voting systems are when extraordinary circumstances occur in elections and in the US that's probably only going to happen if a third party can steal a sizeable portion of the vote.

I guess it might also happen if the most voted for candidate didn't win the presidency due to the nature of electoral college, but then I think that has already happened and nothing really came from it.

Damn the constitution entrenching the voting system and guns

[Moonchild]

Originally posted by Ramcoro

If by electoral process you mean winner take all voting, then yes you are right. It isn't the electoral colleges fault though.


Yea, but until that happens. 3rd party is pretty much a waste.

Even if the electors were awarded proportionally, presidential candidates would still need a majority of electors to win. That takes third parties out of the equation even without winner-take-all. The electoral college isn't responsible for how electors are allocated, but it is responsible for third parties being unviable.

[Ramcoro]

Originally posted by Wonderland

It's just such a frustrating situation for me (and I'm a total outsider looking in on the US ) as I know just historically, the only times countries have bothered to revise their voting systems are when extraordinary circumstances occur in elections and in the US that's probably only going to happen if a third party can steal a sizeable portion of the vote.

I guess it might also happen if the most voted for candidate didn't win the presidency due to the nature of electoral college, but then I think that has already happened and nothing really came from it.

Damn the constitution entrenching the voting system and guns

You're right. It will take something drastic to spur up enough resentment for the public to want to change and pressure politicians. A drastic 3rd run could do that. I rather have Trump run 3rd party and make the republicans want to do that instead of Bernie doing it.

Also a major political figure could make that a campaign issue, I.e. Bernie Sanders.

[feelslikeadream]

Originally posted by LuLuDrops

Same person on my Facebook

Oh my god

I can see The Onion article already.

[Marvin]

Originally posted by Wonderland

The whole damn system just needs to go or at least seriously adapt. It's so undemocratic and the amount of wasted vote is just... staggering

But because it's all tied up in the constitution you'd need both Dems and Reps to agree it needs to change.. I guess that'll never happen though I feel the best opportunity to have a discussion around it would seem to be now with the whole Trump mess going on in the Republicans.

This is exactly the reason why some people are turning to Trump if Bernie doesn't win the nomination.

[Wonderland]

Also does America have a lot of "career politicians"?

I really love this thread as I've learnt so much about your political system (and still am!). It's great so thanks to everyone who has answered any of my questions so far

[Moonchild]

Originally posted by Wonderland

Also does America have a lot of "career politicians"?

I really love this thread as I've learnt so much about your political system (and still am!). It's great so thanks to everyone who has answered any of my questions so far

Oh, for sure. They aren't all bad (see Senator Pat Leahy), but we definitely have a lot of them in both parties.

[Wonderland]

Originally posted by Marvin

This is exactly the reason why some people are turning to Trump if Bernie doesn't win the nomination.

I guess I can kind of see why some would do that (if the electoral system was that important to them). But if I were an American voter, as much as the system frustrates me I still wouldn't go that far.