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Discussion: U.S. Election 2016: Primary Season
Member Since: 8/16/2010
Posts: 15,137
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Quote:
Originally posted by bleuwaffle
Then why vote for him, or any Republican for that matter? It makes no sense other than to make some sort of contrarian anti-Clinton statement.
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That's all it is, they are not at all alike politically. Anti-establishment grandstanding.
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Member Since: 6/28/2008
Posts: 4,530
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Quote:
Originally posted by bleuwaffle
Then why vote for him, or any Republican for that matter? It makes no sense other than to make some sort of contrarian anti-Clinton statement.
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Sorry if that came off as an anti-Clinton statement, my first choice is Clinton. Every candidate has flaws and positions I don't agree with, I think that is normal.
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Member Since: 8/16/2010
Posts: 15,137
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Quote:
Originally posted by Alejandrawrrr
I wouldn't call having the majority of support among women under 45 in a recent NH poll and younger women in general, nor talking about feminism and pay equity on numerous occasions, not to mention supporting #BLM and making one of his main campaign issues fighting racial injustice i the criminal justice system "angling for white dudebros", or whatever.
The media has already been beginning >90% of all segments and articles re: Bernie Sanders by calling him a "socialist" and running "we will raise taxes. yes we will!" headlines, and it hasn't affected his growing support from being an unknown to now rivaling Clinton in both primary states and now nationwide currently.
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The only polls showing him in a near tie nationwide (Quinnipiac and Reuters/Ipsos) greatly undersampled minorities and women.
He has the majority of support among everyone in his next door NH outside of the 65+ crowd for both genders. I expect him to win by 10+. But NH is hardly representative of the general Democratic electorate so the result means little going forward. He is expected to win in NH, and big.
Everything with Sanders pivots back to the big banks, which is narrow rhetoric that appeals to a narrow portion of the Democratic base. Perhaps I'll walk back a little...he's not OPENLY angling for that rageholic base like Trump (that was harsh and a disservice to him), but somehow it is what he attracts, at least in greater numbers compared to Clinton.
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Member Since: 11/26/2010
Posts: 14,197
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mickey
Sorry if that came off as an anti-Clinton statement, my first choice is Clinton. Every candidate has flaws and positions I don't agree with, I think that is normal.
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Of course. But you're a lost cause if you really think a racist reality TV star would be better in the White House than Sanders.
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Member Since: 8/16/2010
Posts: 15,137
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Bernie's black outreach strategy is also shockingly poor. Cornel "******ized President" West? What a mess. 
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Member Since: 8/15/2010
Posts: 8,808
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Quote:
Originally posted by Benzene
Clinton supporters aren't the ones attacking everyone on social media who disagrees with their candidate. Bernie Bros are everywhere disparaging anyone who dares to stand against Saint Bernie on any issue no matter how minor, and the accounts of it are everywhere. It's gotten to the point where Bernie himself has had to speak about it. Your denial is irrelevant here.
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I'm not implying that, my point still stands - it's not irrelevant and utterly thoughtless. So you agree with stereotyping? To characterise an entire group of voters based on a small subset of them is ridiculous and its sad you can't work that one out. Moreover, the difference here between Bernie and Clinton is that Clinton actively encourages her supporters to mouth off Bernie online and she supports this ridiculous so called feminist message that literally declares 'if you are a woman and don't vote for Hilary there is a special place in hell for you'.
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Member Since: 6/28/2008
Posts: 4,530
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Quote:
Originally posted by bleuwaffle
Of course. But you're a lost cause if you really think a racist reality TV star would be better in the White House than Sanders.
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aww man, I'm sorry I come off as a lost cause 
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Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 16,870
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I got my confirmation that i registered to vote in the Texas primary.  Hillary came to my tiny ass city like 12 years ago to campaign for Bill. She better at least stop by here if she wants my vote this time. Jk but if Trump comes to Texas i will call in sick and drive to go see daddy live 
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Member Since: 8/15/2010
Posts: 8,808
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Quote:
Originally posted by Benzene
The point was that these people were never "safe" Dem votes anyway, so their loss is insignificant. And as I said, you can beat the millenial drum all you want, but on the whole they are not a reliable voting block who can be said to swing an election (and again, for all the talk of "turnout," these folks failed to materialize in Iowa overall, down 70,000 from 2008). Hillary is still leading substantially with minorities, who are the most significant and reliable portion of the 2-time presidential election winning Obama coalition.
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But as I mentioned not in terms of millennials. The millennials can almost definitely swing an election and I have confidence given it comes between a republican and Bernie, Bernie can convince the millennials to come out and vote. His campaign is partly about this whole issuing of engaging people with politics.
I don't think Obama is a coalition either.
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Member Since: 8/3/2010
Posts: 71,871
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Quote:
Originally posted by Benzene
Bernie's black outreach strategy is also shockingly poor. Cornel "******ized President" West? What a mess. |
That's one reason why I think he won't make real inroads soon enough for the South. His message hasn't been too clear on minorities. Maybe that'll change after NH
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Member Since: 8/16/2010
Posts: 15,137
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Quote:
Originally posted by Wilkes
I'm not implying that, my point still stands - it's not irrelevant and utterly thoughtless. So you agree with stereotyping? To characterise an entire group of voters based on a small subset of them is ridiculous and its sad you can't work that one out. Moreover, the difference here between Bernie and Clinton is that Clinton actively encourages her supporters to mouth off Bernie online and she supports this ridiculous so called feminist message that literally declares 'if you are a woman and don't vote for Hilary there is a special place in hell for you'.
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Small subset, but loud enough to be EXTREMELY noticeable.
And I'm not here for Clinton's 2nd wave feminist buddies chastising female Sanders supporters either. But it's one thing to read something in an article, it's another to be harassed on social media about how "OMG BERNIE MARCHED WITH MLK" when you dare to mention his horrible polling with black voters. And so on.
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Member Since: 8/15/2010
Posts: 8,808
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Member Since: 8/15/2010
Posts: 8,808
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Quote:
Originally posted by Benzene
Small subset, but loud enough to be EXTREMELY noticeable.
And I'm not here for Clinton's 2nd wave feminist buddies chastising female Sanders supporters either. But it's one thing to read something in an article, it's another to be harassed on social media about how "OMG BERNIE MARCHED WITH MLK" when you dare to mention his horrible polling with black voters. And so on.
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So is all the whole feminist brigade on the Clinton side. She chastises them herself.
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Member Since: 8/16/2010
Posts: 15,137
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Quote:
Originally posted by Wilkes
But as I mentioned not in terms of millennials. The millennials can almost definitely swing an election and I have confidence given it comes between a republican and Bernie, Bernie can convince the millennials to come out and vote. His campaign is partly about this whole issuing of engaging people with politics.
I don't think Obama is a coalition either.
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The "Obama coalition" (white progressives and minorities) is what won him the past two elections, and the MOST significant and reliable portion of that coalition in swinging the election was not millenials, it was older black female voters. These voters are consistently THE most reliable Dems, and right now they are favoring Hillary by a large margin.
Millenials have never proven to be a reliable block and I do not expect Sanders to change that. Sanders won an high percentage of the millennial vote, but overall turnout was down substantially.
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Member Since: 8/15/2010
Posts: 8,808
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Quote:
Originally posted by Benzene
The "Obama coalition" (white progressives and minorities) is what won him the past two elections, and the MOST significant and reliable portion of that coalition in swinging the election was not millenials, it was older black female voters. These voters are consistently THE most reliable Dems, and right now they are favoring Hillary by a large margin.
Millenials have never proven to be a reliable block and I do not expect Sanders to change that. Sanders won an hogh percentage of the millennial vote, but overall turnout was down substantially.
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Not in terms of millennials.
I think you have the definition of coalition wrong.
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Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 5,905
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Quote:
Originally posted by LuLuDrops
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The frantic attacks by the Clinton family dating back to the misinformation regarding his healthcare stance and camp make it seem like she's trailing nationally and doesn't have the black and older female vote to fall back on. This is exactly why I found the cries of "BernieBros" (people being offensive ONLINE) to be the political ploy that it is - it only serves to implicitly link Bernie's campaign with sexism, like Bill just did in that rant.
Quote:
Originally posted by Wilkes
Just like how all Americans are fat and all English people love tea or how all Clinton supporters are raging, hormonal feminists? Stop with the stereotyping, it's actually pathetic.
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This is what Clinton supporters have been doing the entire election. First anyone who didn't glow with support for their queen bee was labelled "naive college kids" and "someone who just doesn't understand politics"; now you're either slandered as being a sexist "BernieBro/angry white dudebro" or "hormonal boy-crazy little girl who doesn't appreciate true feminism". It's simply not possible in the eyes of the Clinton Hive to simply disagree on the issues and their priority, especially that of the corrupting influence of money in politics.
Quote:
Originally posted by Benzene
Everything with Sanders pivots back to the big banks, which is narrow rhetoric that appeals to a narrow portion of the Democratic base. Perhaps I'll walk back a little...he's not OPENLY angling for that rageholic base like Trump (that was harsh and a disservice to him), but somehow it is what he attracts, at least in greater numbers compared to Clinton.
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So why do Clinton supporters and her camp find it fair to call out a tiny minority of people who support Sanders or simply oppose Clinton and use sexist language, yet it isn't to call out the huge majority of women overall especially those who identify with or advocate for the feminist cause, and "just so happen" to unequivocally support Hillary? Just like I find it objectionable to oppose Hillary based on her gender, it is equally objectionable for Hillary to personally invite surrogates on the campaign trail with her, dubbing all young women who dare think independently as being "ungrateful" and having "a special place in hell" for them, not to mention applauding that line and defending it in subsequent interviews. I'm personally not a fan of identity politics much at all (unless one candidate explicitly poses an imminent threat to one of the groups you identify with, which isn't the case on the democratic side), but your side seems to think it only goes one way.
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Member Since: 8/16/2010
Posts: 15,137
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Quote:
Originally posted by Wilkes
Not in terms of millennials.
I think you have the definition of coalition wrong.
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Not significantly, but it was still down: https://twitter.com/ThisWeekABC/stat...50279127359492
And this was in Iowa, a state tailor made for Bernie.
And "Obama coalition" is a term that has been used in political writing for quite some time, not sure the point of arguing semantics.
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Member Since: 8/16/2010
Posts: 15,137
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Quote:
Originally posted by Wilkes
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Working where? The polls have been mostly unchanged, a few black friends here and there don't seem to have much of an impact.
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Member Since: 8/16/2010
Posts: 15,137
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I'm not even really a Hillary stan like that, I didn't forget her nonsense leading up to SC in 2008.  But this Saint Bernie stuff has been aggravating me.
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Member Since: 8/3/2010
Posts: 71,871
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Quote:
Originally posted by Benzene
I'm not even really a Hillary stan like that, I didn't forget her nonsense leading up to SC in 2008. But this Saint Bernie stuff has been aggravating me. |
Don't remind me, I disliked her for those comments in 2008 
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