Its nonsense even arguing when actually none of these people took the time to look at some of the videos that solely focus on Beys vocal technique which provide real and actual receipts for what she can do with her voice.
!!! It's like talking to a brick wall that only knows the phrases "my taste" and "delusional."
!!! It's like talking to a brick wall that only knows the phrases "my taste" and "delusional."
add "Kelly Clarkson" and "Tori Kelly" to your list of phrases.
I mean, in this particular video, you can already tell that after 0:39, she would not be able to deliver the "I don't know where I belong, but I'll be moving on"-part and everything that follows like Bey (effortlessly for the record) does:
She's already using her headvoices at places where Bey still comfortably uses her chest voice, because she knows she wouldn't be able to hit some of those high notes with her chest voice only.
Let's not start on Beys runs. Like, most would not be able to deliver the Crazy in Love run while Bey is able to do that like its an easy thing to do.
Hmm let's take away Beyonce's agility fit a minute ..if we put both Kelly and Bey side by side ..Kelly shows to have great belting power.. Good vibrato and the stamina needed to phrase high into the 5th octave..she loses to Beyoncé simply because of her lack of development in the 2nd/3rd/4th and 6th octave.. Kelly just doesn't have support, coordination, or pitch accuracy (there's many times she falls off the center of note going flat/sharp).. And this is in 4 different octaves..where Kelly's mediocrity can be shone even in those videos you showed me.. Beyoncé's superiority vocally over Kelly has less to do with her vocal acrobatics and more to do with the fact that Kelly's voice just isn't as developed at a fundamental level..Beyonce's training coupled with her musicality/skill just happened to put her head and shoulders over her contemporaries..including Kelly, whose an extraordinary upper belter!
I do agree that Beyonce is more developed all around, but I was just saying I personally find Kelly to be better because she pours more emotion and makes me feel more, and there aren't many singers out there who can make you feel while still having very impressive technical skill. Beyonce has more impressive technical skill and is far more consistent vocally, but doesn't affect me quite as much if that makes sense. I also find Kelly to be far more versatile....not that Beyonce isn't, but she kinda sounds the same on most of what she sings. Kelly adjusts her voice to adapt to each genre, and can really "wow" me with not too much vocal fluff. There are so many songs that I think Kelly does a superb job with (like Top of The World and a few others) that I don't think Beyonce could do as well with, and it doesn't really have to do with hitting the notes or what not.
A few others that I think show Kelly really nailing that I don't think Beyonce could do quite as well with.
Not trying to start anything here but I also give Kelly extra props for always singing live. It annoys me a little bit that Beyonce lip-syncs occasionally out of fear of not being 100% perfect.
All of that aside though I guess the thread is asking about technical skill, and the answer definitely is Beyonce. I'm just explaining why I personally find Kelly to be better overall.
I think so. I don't know any current pop singer (including great voices) who is more knowledgeable and creative than she is with their instrument.
It's refreshing to hear someone who obviously loves to sing be so disciplined and always yearning to improve. She's one pop singer that I think won't be losing her quality before 40 unless, God forbid, some freak accident happens.
Could Bey sing what you claim "better" singers can sing? Yes or no?
and now vice versa
Could anybody sing what Bey sings? (this includes e.g. Dangerously in Love, Crazy in Love, Love on Top, etc.)
From here on, the answer should be quite evident.
This logic won't work considering how people have different vocal range. She's easily one of the best. She's surely in the top 3. I'll let the vocal masters judge vocals.
I do agree that Beyonce is more developed all around, but I was just saying I personally find Kelly to be better because she pours more emotion and makes me feel more, and there aren't many singers out there who can make you feel while still having very impressive technical skill. Beyonce has more impressive technical skill and is far more consistent vocally, but doesn't affect me quite as much if that makes sense. I also find Kelly to be far more versatile....not that Beyonce isn't, but she kinda sounds the same on most of what she sings. Kelly adjusts her voice to adapt to each genre, and can really "wow" me with not too much vocal fluff. There are so many songs that I think Kelly does a superb job with (like Top of The World and a few others) that I don't think Beyonce could do as well with, and it doesn't really have to do with hitting the notes or what not.
A few others that I think show Kelly really nailing that I don't think Beyonce could do quite as well with.
Not trying to start anything here but I also give Kelly extra props for always singing live. It annoys me a little bit that Beyonce lip-syncs occasionally out of fear of not being 100% perfect.
All of that aside though I guess the thread is asking about technical skill, and the answer definitely is Beyonce. I'm just explaining why I personally find Kelly to be better overall.
"I personally find Kelly to be better because she pours more emotion and makes me feel more, and there aren't many singers out there who can make you feel while still having very impressive technical skill." - Cool. I get this; people have different tastes, but I'm impressed that you can explain this and still acknowledge Beyonce's technical superiority over Kelly. On a personal note, I feel a lot when I listen to Beyonce. On songs like Schooling Life, Countdown, End of Time; her spunk and joyous singing makes me want to dance!! Her care-free and intoxicating delivery in drunk in love makes me wanna turn up and I get chills on songs like Rocket and 1+1 ..that's a lot of emotion for me
" also find Kelly to be far more versatile....not that Beyonce isn't, but she kinda sounds the same on most of what she sings. Kelly adjusts her voice to adapt to each genre, and can really "wow" me with not too much vocal fluff." - Explain the "versatile"..I'd say Beyonce is just as versatile if NOT more do to her greater amount of ability; and she's naturally creative on that standpoint??
I mean who goes from full classical placement "operatic" notes to rap-singing over a southern trap beat all in one song?
Is too apparent not to see. Those are two different deliveries, with a vastly different approach. Are you sure you're knowledgeable enough about Beyonce's music such a grand statement like that??
" Kelly adjusts her voice to adapt to each genre, and can really "wow" me with not too much vocal fluff." - Beyonce does the same exact thing and it's musically creative and sound, which shows her vocal versatility. What do you refer as "vocal fluff"..Her vocal agility?? Her runs aren't over-indulgent and Beyonce is natural a "rhythmic" singer..she just sings with a lot of moving lines(versatile phrasing) ..mostly because she's a colorutura just like Cecilia Bertoli, Ella Fitzgerald and Mariah.. It's hardly fluff, and if that's the case couldn't a point be made for Kelly's excessive belting??
Not the self-proclaimed ATRL vocal experts aka devoted Hive members calling pop stars "virtuosos" and grouping them with the likes of Cecilia Bartoli and Ella Fitzgerald... delusion at its finest
I'm assuming you're referring to me since I was the only one to mention Cecilia and the Great Ella..
"Not the self-proclaimed ATRL vocal experts aka devoted Hive members" - Never proclaimed to be such.. this is something cooked out of your own head, unfortunately. This is an example of deflecting
"calling pop stars "virtuosos" and grouping them with the likes of Cecilia Bartoli and Ella Fitzgerald" -
Let's look at this for a second, is virtuosity not related to
Quote:
an individual who possesses outstanding technical ability in a particular art or field such as fine arts, music, singing, playing a musical instrument or composition.
Quote:
...a virtuoso was, originally, a highly accomplished musician, but by the nineteenth century the term had become restricted to performers, both vocal and instrumental, whose technical accomplishments were so pronounced as to dazzle the public."
How does Beyonce NOT exemplify this in its purest form! Reciepts don't lie, friend; you shouldn't either
"I personally find Kelly to be better because she pours more emotion and makes me feel more, and there aren't many singers out there who can make you feel while still having very impressive technical skill." - Cool. I get this; people have different tastes, but I'm impressed that you can explain this and still acknowledge Beyonce's technical superiority over Kelly. On a personal note, I feel a lot when I listen to Beyonce. On songs like Schooling Life, Countdown, End of Time; her spunk and joyous singing makes me want to dance!! Her care-free and intoxicating delivery in drunk in love makes me wanna turn up and I get chills on songs like Rocket and 1+1 ..that's a lot of emotion for me
" also find Kelly to be far more versatile....not that Beyonce isn't, but she kinda sounds the same on most of what she sings. Kelly adjusts her voice to adapt to each genre, and can really "wow" me with not too much vocal fluff." - Explain the "versatile"..I'd say Beyonce is just as versatile if NOT more do to her greater amount of ability; and she's naturally creative on that standpoint??
I mean who goes from full classical placement "operatic" notes to rap-singing over a southern trap beat all in one song?
Is too apparent not to see. Those are two different deliveries, with a vastly different approach. Are you sure you're knowledgeable enough about Beyonce's music such a grand statement like that??
" Kelly adjusts her voice to adapt to each genre, and can really "wow" me with not too much vocal fluff." - Beyonce does the same exact thing and it's musically creative and sound, which shows her vocal versatility. What do you refer as "vocal fluff"..Her vocal agility?? Her runs aren't over-indulgent and Beyonce is natural a "rhythmic" singer..she just sings with a lot of moving lines(versatile phrasing) ..mostly because she's a colorutura just like Cecilia Bertoli, Ella Fitzgerald and Mariah.. It's hardly fluff, and if that's the case couldn't a point be made for Kelly's excessive belting??
No yeah definitely! I don't think Beyonce is like a Leona Lewis type of singer that has great technical skill but 0 emotion/personality, she definitely shows emotion and personality. I love her spunk, especially in her performance at the Grammy Salutes Stevie Wonder special last year...that was one of my favorite performances I've seen from her.
By versatile I mean I think Kelly does a better job moving from genre to genre and sounding like a natural at each one. Beyonce does adjust to different genres well, much better than most people, but stuff like the videos I've posted in here are some examples of genres I don't think Beyonce would sound as natural on as Kelly. Kelly has done Country, Rock, R&B, Swing, Blues, Theatre, Opera, Dance Pop, and sold each one like a natural. Beyonce has done most of those extremely well too, I just personally think Kelly does a better job of it. By fluff, I just meant no extra runs or big notes or anything. I don't think Beyonce's runs are over indulgent, I just meant that I can't see her wowing with something like I Can't Make You Love Me or Don't Rush the way Kelly does, a song with no big belts or melisma or anything. And I don't think Kelly's belting is excessive
No yeah definitely! I don't think Beyonce is like a Leona Lewis type of singer that has great technical skill but 0 emotion/personality, she definitely shows emotion and personality. I love her spunk, especially in her performance at the Grammy Salutes Stevie Wonder special last year...that was one of my favorite performances I've seen from her.
By versatile I mean I think Kelly does a better job moving from genre to genre and sounding like a natural at each one. Beyonce does adjust to different genres well, much better than most people, but stuff like the videos I've posted in here are some examples of genres I don't think Beyonce would sound as natural on as Kelly. Kelly has done Country, Rock, R&B, Swing, Blues, Theatre, Opera, Dance Pop, and sold each one like a natural. Beyonce has done most of those extremely well too, I just personally think Kelly does a better job of it. By fluff, I just meant no extra runs or big notes or anything. I don't think Beyonce's runs are over indulgent, I just meant that I can't see her wowing with something like I Can't Make You Love Me or Don't Rush the way Kelly does, a song with no big belts or melisma or anything. And I don't think Kelly's belting is excessive
"but stuff like the videos I've posted in here are some examples of genres I don't think Beyonce would sound as natural on as Kelly. Kelly has done Country, Rock, R&B, Swing, Blues, Theatre, Opera, Dance Pop, and sold each one like a natural. Beyonce has done most of those extremely well too, I just personally think Kelly does a better job of it." - Well this is subjective. A preference that cannot be compared or debated; Kelly does not sound "natural" at R&B, Blues, Opera ..any real urban singer WILL tell you this..She just adjusts well because she has a good grasp on the genre..Beyonce's classical placement is much more natural and effortless, which cannot be said for Kelly's laboured singing.
Beyonce doesn't do anything big or extravagant in Runnin, That's Why You're Beautiful, I Miss You, Satellites.. all beautiful melodic songs that focus on interpreting the lyrics! Sometimes Kelly's belting is excessive sometimes; especially when she's singing in a song structure that requires a very focused harmonic structure and then she shoots on top of the staff singing a high G or A when the melody doesn't call for it.
I didnt say her technique is bad, its quite good for a pop star, but thats it. Her tone on the other hand...
So basically you (like every other naysayer) can't negate anything stated about Bey's capabilities by people who've clearly studied vocal pedagogy that you're condescendingly attempting to mock (with nothing to counter any claims but snarky bs) and then you immediately retreat back to a subjective point which has nothing to do with skill. SMFH, every single time.
It's fine if you don't think so, but it's not like it's hard to understand why someone would think she's better.
