| |
Celeb News: Annie Lennox to Beyonce: Twerking Isn't Feminism
Member Since: 8/19/2013
Posts: 11,808
|
Quote:
Originally posted by RihannasVeryOwn
I didn't mean dragging the fundamentals of her feminism, it's admirable how she brought the conversation to the forefront however the way she presents it leaves a lot to be desired. She can sit here and speak about how societal ideals placed on women are oppressive but her actions speak louder than her words and personally I am not inspired by a woman who perpetuates those ideals by photoshopping her pictures and trying to maintain an image of perfection. I'm inspired by a woman like Nicki who can speak about her feminism yet act on it too, a women who against all odds in a male dominated industry worked her way to the top and expresses her sexuality yet doesn't do anything to erase the work she's done by promoting something she's supposedly fighting against.
Beyonce IS a feminist, I'm not denying that, but as I said her presentation and actions leave a lot to be desired.
|
You're not okay with Beyonce's brand of feminism because she allegedly Photoshops her pictures, but you're okay with Nicki Minaj getting tons of cosmetic surgery to maintain an an image of perfection, as well as perpetuating a very alienating, elitist, classist mentality with her lyrics where she refers to other women as "bum bitches," "broke bitches" and "crusty?"
& Ms. Knowles is also a woman who has worked her way to the top in a male-dominated industry
I'm a fan of both, I'm just trying to figure out exactly what it is you're saying here...
|
|
|
|
Member Since: 3/4/2014
Posts: 1,333
|
Quote:
Originally posted by Jameson Teqkilla
An astronaut is a profession that requires years of education and professional certifications. Feminism is an ideology. This is a terrible comparison and makes no sense.
|
The limited perception of feminism is a problem around here. Feminism is a social and political movement based on a number of (conflicting/contradicting) philosophical and political theories. In 2014 there exist so many different approaches on feminism that labelling yourself a feminist doesn't mean anything. You have to be able to explain what "being a feminist" means to you. It takes years to study the history of the movement and those theories. And it's absolutely necessary to do that before you label yourself a feminist. Otherwise you risk to talk bs about a topic you know nothing about (and therefore won't be taken seriously).
|
|
|
|
Member Since: 6/25/2011
Posts: 28,853
|
Quote:
Originally posted by Lorelei
I recall Beyonce mouthing the lyrics in the video and during the performance with a smile on her face. That was a song included in her album, which i love, but you can't have feminism in there and then mock domestic abuse, it doesn't make sense. The song is about having a good time with your partner, why on earth did they need to add that phrase from a particularly humiliating scene based on real events?
Like i said i love her album but that was just wrong and insulting.
|
She's mouthing the lyrics because its one of those moments that gets people hyped, no matter how bad a connotation it has. Does that make everyone who sings along to it "domestic abuse" supporters? No. It doesn't make her one for mouthing it either. Jay and Bey are literally speaking to and about each other in the song. It obviously had no ill intent and was used tongue-in-cheek. They aren't co-signing domestic abuse.
|
|
|
|
Member Since: 8/1/2012
Posts: 8,763
|
Quote:
Originally posted by uhoh-ohno
Saying that something is not feminist is not the same as shaming it. It's saying that is not feminist.
For those wondering why Annie keeps coming for Beyonce . . . It's because people have been asking her about Beyonce and feminism in her recent interviews. Annie isn't just calling her name out of the blue. When you use feminism as a branding gimmick, as Beyonce clearly does, it will be critiqued, and not everyone will agree with what you're selling.
I encourage everyone to read comments on Gawker.
|
Exactly!
|
|
|
|
Member Since: 8/19/2013
Posts: 25,476
|
I don't necessarily agree with Annie this time  I get what she's trying to say, but I don't really agree with her all. I don't think Beyoncé or anyone labeled "twerking"or dancing provocatively onstage as feminism. Twerking is viewed as trashy (not just by white people, black people think it's trashy too!), and alot of feminists don't want women to be associated with that because they feel as though it's degrading to their gender  Ya'll might disagree, buy she's entitled to her own opinion as to what she identifies as TRUE feminism and what isn't tho.
And what is ATRL's obsession with screaming "white feminism!!!11111" in threads like this  Y'all love to overuse every term that you learn 
|
|
|
|
Banned
Member Since: 6/25/2011
Posts: 37,192
|
Quote:
Originally posted by Red Hot Moon
The limited perception of feminism is a problem around here. Feminism is a social and political movement based on a number of (conflicting/contradicting) philosophical and political theories. In 2014 there exist so many different approaches on feminism that labelling yourself a feminist doesn't mean anything. You have to be able to explain what "being a feminist" means to you. It takes years to study the history of the movement and those theories. And it's absolutely necessary to do that before you label yourself a feminist. Otherwise you risk to talk bs about a topic you know nothing about (and therefore won't be taken seriously).
|
It's really not. She can't say she's a feminist SCHOLAR, but she can absolutely say she's a feminist.
Identifying as a Democrat doesn't mean you know everything in the history of the democratic party, or even agree with every aspect of the Democratic platform.
Feminism wasn't designed to create an elite society where only those who had the privilege to access of education were allowed in.
|
|
|
|
Member Since: 2/6/2014
Posts: 41,074
|
Quote:
Originally posted by NewRihannaStan
Feminism has always been a off topic to me. I dont really get the gist of it , all I know is women attacking other women and bringing them down isn't feminism .
|
.
|
|
|
|
Member Since: 3/15/2013
Posts: 19,723
|
Quote:
Originally posted by Latch
You're not okay with Beyonce's brand of feminism because she allegedly Photoshops her pictures, but you're okay with Nicki Minaj getting tons of cosmetic surgery to maintain an an image of perfection, as well as perpetuating a very alienating, elitist, classist mentality with her lyrics where she refers to other women as "bum bitches," "broke bitches" and "crusty?"
& Ms. Knowles is also a woman who has worked her way to the top in a male-dominated industry
I'm a fan of both, I'm just trying to figure out exactly what it is you're saying here...
|
Nicki is a victim of misogyny/misogynoir and hate when it comes to her cosmetic surgery, let's not act as if she's not dragged everyday because of her ass shots. She may or may not have gotten them for cosmetic purposes however it is not comparable to photoshopping thigh gaps into your pictures which are triggering for young women who have suffered eating disorders.
And 'bum bitches', 'broke bitches' etc is part of her hip hop bravado, it is not targeted towards anyone and it's not intended to be malicious in any way. If you feel those words are 'alienating, elitist and classist' how can you support 'bow down bitches' when 'bow down bitches' is exactly that?
|
|
|
|
Member Since: 4/6/2014
Posts: 2,407
|
The lack education, the misunderstandind and the twist in this thread...
Is dressing like female gay empowerment ? Is the promiscouos between gay guys the prove for gay empowerment ? Is vogue dance gay empowerment ? And other particularities ?
First of all Annie doesn´t fight against aything.
The same case ascgay empowerment. Feminism is not about the stereotypes, it´s not about your expression, it´s not about the limit, it´s about social role. dont label any of particular aspects as feminism. Any kind of human right equality only present for the basic and general right not the individual particularities like how you dress, dance, speak, make love ect ect
you guys dont even know the difference between fight against something and dont put something on the same par
|
|
|
|
Member Since: 8/7/2010
Posts: 9,646
|
Quote:
Originally posted by Ryanicorn
I don't necessarily agree with Annie this time I get what she's trying to say, but I don't really agree with her all. I don't think Beyoncé or anyone labeled "twerking"or dancing provocatively onstage as feminism. She's entitled to her own opinion as to what she identifies as TRUE feminism and what isn't.
And what is ATRL's obsession with screaming "white feminism!!!11111" in threads like this Y'all love to overuse every term that you learn |
Because it's usually white women tearing down and marginalizing what POC women are doing and defining their experiences as women and feminists.
|
|
|
|
Banned
Member Since: 6/25/2011
Posts: 37,192
|
Quote:
Originally posted by RihannasVeryOwn
Nicki is a victim of misogyny/misogynoir and hate when it comes to her cosmetic surgery, let's not act as if she's not dragged everyday because of her ass shots. She may or may not have gotten them for cosmetic purposes however it is not comparable to photoshopping thigh gaps into your pictures which are triggering for young women who have suffered eating disorders.
And 'bum bitches', 'broke bitches' etc is part of her hip hop bravado, it is not targeted towards anyone and it's not intended to be malicious in any way. If you feel those words are 'alienating, elitist and classist' how can you support 'bow down bitches' when 'bow down bitches' is exactly that?
|
So it's fair to drag Beyonce for photoshopped photos, but it is unfair to drag Nicki for cosmetic surgery AND photoshopping her pictures?
How exactly is getting a cosmetic surgery to alter your appearance not comparable to photoshopping a photo to alter your appearance?
You're not making any sense at all. You really just need to accept that your position towards Beyonce and Nicki here are completely biased by your own feelings about the artists and do not make logical sense.
|
|
|
|
Member Since: 4/22/2009
Posts: 11,768
|
All of us with a brain already knew this. Catch up!
|
|
|
|
Banned
Member Since: 6/25/2011
Posts: 37,192
|
Quote:
Originally posted by Legend ReX
All of us with a brain already knew this. Catch up!
|
Who needs to catch up exactly? I have never seen a single person claim that twerking is feminism.
|
|
|
|
Member Since: 3/4/2014
Posts: 1,333
|
Quote:
Originally posted by Jameson Teqkilla
It's really not. She can't say she's a feminist SCHOLAR, but she can absolutely say she's a feminist.
Identifying as a Democrat doesn't mean you know everything in the history of the democratic party, or even agree with every aspect of the Democratic platform.
Feminism wasn't designed to create an elite society where only those who had the privilege to access of education were allowed in.
|
Wow. Just NO. You can't be part of a movement without basic knowledge of its foundations. I'm not even talking about tertiary education. You can study on your own, go to a library, do research on the internet. There is no excuse for not educating yourself on the subject before you start taking the term feminism in your mouth. It's just laziness or lack of interest. OR wait: You can, but don't expect to be taken seriously.
|
|
|
|
Member Since: 8/31/2012
Posts: 13,110
|
She's right. Putting Beyonce's picture (gyrating and shaking her boobs) next to a picture of Susan B. Anthony or any real feminist is downright insulting.
|
|
|
|
Member Since: 8/19/2013
Posts: 25,476
|
Quote:
Originally posted by Harmonic Dreamer
Because it's usually white women tearing down and marginalizing what POC women are doing and defining their experiences as women and feminists. |
Not really. I've seen more women of colour than white women who identify as feminist dragging other women of colour for being overtly sexual and taking pride in their body. It's not just a "white feminist" thing 
|
|
|
|
ATRL Contributor
Member Since: 8/19/2013
Posts: 46,848
|
lol what an idiot.
|
|
|
|
Member Since: 8/31/2012
Posts: 13,110
|
Quote:
Originally posted by Harmonic Dreamer
Because it's usually white women tearing down and marginalizing what POC women are doing and defining their experiences as women and feminists. |
No one is dragging Chimamanda, Oprah, etc.
They drag the "feminists" that say "women are more than sexual objects" and then proceed to sell themselves as sexual objects.
|
|
|
|
Banned
Member Since: 6/25/2011
Posts: 37,192
|
Quote:
Originally posted by Red Hot Moon
Wow. Just NO. You can't be part of a movement without basic knowledge of its foundations. I'm not even talking about tertiary education. You can study on your own, go to a library, do research on the internet. There is no excuse for not educating yourself on the subject before you start taking the term feminism in your mouth. It's just laziness or lack of interest. OR wait: You can, but don't expect to be taken seriously.
|
Okay, but we know for a fact that Beyoncé at least did research on the internet because that's how she found Chimamanda'd TED Talk that was eventually sampled in ***Flawless.
So what is your point exactly? Being a feminist is not the same thing as being a feminist scholar. There are NO formal requirements to being a feminist. There are no unified standards. It is an ideological label that anyone is free to choose to adopt themselves. Unless you're telling me that you are the head of the feminist movement, and in fact that the feminist movement has become so unified that there IS a head of the movement, your opinion cannot change that fact.
I'd like you to find me one example in history of someone being forced to stop identifying as a feminist because they lacked proper education. You seem so confident about this that surely there's precedent for it.
|
|
|
|
Member Since: 10/10/2011
Posts: 16,324
|
Yes according to Annie Lenox you can only be a feminist if you have short mens hair and wear suits all the time. That's it.
|
|
|
|
|
|
