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Discussion: Is Beyonce the blueprint for R&B like Madonna is for pop?
Member Since: 4/20/2011
Posts: 6,868
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Quote:
Originally posted by BeyingBeytter
Janet is not R&B
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Ask anyone would they rather have Aaliyah's, Mary J Blige, or Beyonce's career and wait for their response  |
That's where your getting LOST
Beyonce has SUCESS
But she will never have the IMPACT Aaliyah, janet, brandy and Mary have made. Stop getting success mixed up with impact and influence. Beyonce is CUTE But let's not try and act as if she has CHANGED R&B Music she continues to FOLLOW in the footsteps of real Legends and game changer's.
Destiny's Child have more impact then beyonce tbh
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Member Since: 1/2/2014
Posts: 18,038
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Quote:
Originally posted by BeyingBeytter
I am sure they are speaking more in terms of Janet's influence on their performance style.
Janet is not R&B. None of her songs gives me R&B feels. If anything she took after her brother in a more Pop direction.
Ciara, Tinashe, Beyonce, early Rihanna is pure R&B. Now who is the blue print of R&B music, that is the debate we are having. I don't believe Beyonce established R&B, but she is a successful R&B artist. She was able to make a lot of people sing her R&B songs. After, I can say Ciara was really successful during her Goodies era. But Beyonce had more longevity. Look at her tour gross. She is able to reach larger audiences with her R&B influenced music. |
Early Rihanna is not pure R&B though, you can tell you haven't listened to her earlier music. Music of The Sun is more reggae and dancehall than R&B and AGLM is a mixture of various genres so still no.
and lonely and again by Janet are r&b songs that have had a lot of impact though, she wasn't strictly R&B but she did do R&B. Her luther vandross duet is still another R&B song too.
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Member Since: 8/4/2012
Posts: 7,700
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Quote:
Originally posted by lonnie
I still don't see any Bey blueprint in MoTS rih, not in the music not in the style not in the attitude, NOTHING.
The comparisons were made between them simply because Bey was then the most successful black female artist, just like the Mariah/Whitney comparison. So I really don't see it.
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I have to disagree. Bey and Rih were compared because the latter was marketed like the former for two years. Same with Whitney/Mariah. Janet and Whitney were the biggest Black female artists of the later 80s, but they were never compared because they occupied completely separate lanes.
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Member Since: 1/20/2012
Posts: 27,830
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Quote:
Originally posted by lonnie
more like Janet her influence, and Tinashe actually said she was inspired by Janet, just as Ciara herself was inspired by Ms Jackson  |
Janet is way more pop than R&B though and of course she would say she was inspired by her, Janet is a legend. The Ciara influence is pretty clear though, it's pretty sad that artists don't give her props (Tinashe, Sevyn, Keke Palmer, etc).
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Member Since: 3/27/2012
Posts: 18,963
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Quote:
Originally posted by lonnie
I still don't see any Bey blueprint in MoTS rih, not in the music not in the style not in the attitude, NOTHING.
The comparisons were made between them simply because Bey was then the most successful black female artist, just like the Mariah/Whitney comparison. So I really don't see it.
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Overall it is not, but there are moments. For example, Let Me has a very Amerie-ish vibe, which in turn came from Crazy in Love. Anyway, it's common knowledge that if not musically, she was following the same brand blueprint as Beyonce. Exotic diva, etc.
This is straight up Baby Boy:
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Member Since: 8/4/2012
Posts: 7,700
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Quote:
Originally posted by BeyingBeytter
I am sure they are speaking more in terms of Janet's influence on their performance style.
Janet is not R&B. None of her songs gives me R&B feels. If anything she took after her brother in a more Pop direction.
Ciara, Tinashe, Beyonce, early Rihanna is pure R&B. Now who is the blue print of R&B music, that is the debate we are having. I don't believe Beyonce established R&B, but she is a successful R&B artist. She was able to make a lot of people sing her R&B songs. After, I can say Ciara was really successful during her Goodies era. But Beyonce had more longevity. Look at her tour gross. She is able to reach larger audiences with her R&B influenced music. |
But Janet is R&B though. She has way more in common musically with Mary J than she does with Madonna. Even her poppier songs have R&B feels.
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Member Since: 12/22/2011
Posts: 55,626
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Quote:
Originally posted by Reza
THIS!!! exactly what I was thinking. Beyoncé probably influence more pop music than Rnb.  |
I don't see how you can influence something you are not that dominant in.
Beyonce owns R&b music...alicia keys owned it more before the end of 2000s where she gave up her grip on it.
Beyonce can't score a #1 pop hit during strong buzz but even during her 4 era she was scoring smash after smash on the r&b area.
I don't see anyone NOW that would fit the bill for R&B.
Rihanna is that for Pop she has some r*bish songs but is pop. Beyonce has some pop undertones but is r&b.
to me it's not hard to figure that out...
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Member Since: 9/5/2011
Posts: 9,174
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Quote:
Originally posted by ECNEICSNOC
But Janet is R&B though. She has way more in common musically with Mary J than she does with Madonna. Even her poppier songs have R&B feels.
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I still don't understand how some Janet "fans" think that she's more pop than rnb when she changed music with the release of "Control"..  Her sound was what contemporary rnb is now.
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Member Since: 12/22/2011
Posts: 55,626
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Wow, what kind of reach? People claiming MOTS was influenced by beyonce and then choosing a track that wasn't even a single.
Where I can say there's truth is the image at the time to be the Bajan/Island Beyonce visually but that's where it ended. Even with the 2nd album, there wasn't that influence.
I do think that the next generation of girls (R&B) will look to Beyonce as they look to rihanna for pop. The difference is you can see more Rihanna now in others but that has to do with the edge and the evolution visually as well as the change in sound each era.
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Member Since: 3/27/2012
Posts: 18,963
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I don't think Beyonce is the blueprint for R&B.
She's much too diverse to be considering purely R&B. If we said Pop&B, then yes, but R&B is more like Mary J. Blige or even Aretha if we are going for a blueprint - a standard idea of what an R&B artist is like.
Beyonce however is the perfect blueprint of the popstar though. Great vocals, great dancing, great live stage presence, great studio skills. She has it all.
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Member Since: 4/20/2011
Posts: 6,868
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Quote:
Originally posted by swissman
Overall it is not, but there are moments. For example, Let Me has a very Amerie-ish vibe, which in turn came from Crazy in Love. Anyway, it's common knowledge that if not musically, she was following the same brand blueprint as Beyonce. Exotic diva, etc.
This is straight up Baby Boy:
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Even if Rihanna was FORCED to have Beyonce IMAGERY
She never found WW Success until GGGB. Rihanna was more of a DESTINY'S CHILD FAN Than a Beyonce fan. She was found by Beyonce's man no surprise she felt the need to alway's praise here when in reality Mariah and Madonna were bigger influences.
Rihanna has also stated that Janet was the first artist she can really relate to because they both were able to infuse different genre's together.
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Member Since: 1/2/2014
Posts: 18,038
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Quote:
Originally posted by swissman
Overall it is not, but there are moments. For example, Let Me has a very Amerie-ish vibe, which in turn came from Crazy in Love. Anyway, it's common knowledge that if not musically, she was following the same brand blueprint as Beyonce. Exotic diva, etc.
This is straight up Baby Boy:
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No, pon de replay does not sound like baby boy.
Rihanna is from the Caribbean, she has listened to reggae and dancehall her whole life, what is it that makes you think pon de replay was a baby boy? Baby boy itself isn't even dancehall and the dancehall influences don't go beyond the sean paul verse.
And what people don't know is that MoTS was an album compiled with demos which were being handed to labels like DefJam, therefore DefJam didn't do a lot on MOTS, and since when is Bey an exotic diva? she maybe a diva but she isn't exotic.
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Member Since: 9/5/2011
Posts: 9,174
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Quote:
Originally posted by swissman
I don't think Beyonce is the blueprint for R&B.
She's much too diverse to be considering purely R&B. If we said Pop&B, then yes, but R&B is more like Mary J. Blige or even Aretha if we are going for a blueprint - a standard idea of what an R&B artist is like.
Beyonce however is the perfect blueprint of the popstar though. Great vocals, great dancing, great live stage presence, great studio skills. She has it all.
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She's primarily an rnb artist that happened to crossover.
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Member Since: 3/27/2012
Posts: 18,963
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Quote:
Originally posted by slw84
Wow, what kind of reach? People claiming MOTS was influenced by beyonce and then choosing a track that wasn't even a single.
Where I can say there's truth is the image at the time to be the Bajan/Island Beyonce visually but that's where it ended. Even with the 2nd album, there wasn't that influence.
I do think that the next generation of girls (R&B) will look to Beyonce as they look to rihanna for pop. The difference is you can see more Rihanna now in others but that has to do with the edge and the evolution visually as well as the change in sound each era.
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I'm assuming you meant me by saying "people". As if there were multiple people using an album track. But you seem to have overlooked where I said overall it is not a Beyonce sounding album.
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Member Since: 3/27/2012
Posts: 18,963
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Quote:
Originally posted by dcode78
She's primarily an rnb artist that happened to crossover.
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Of her debut's four biggest hits, only Me, Myself and I is really R&B. Crazy in Love, Baby Boy, and Naughty Girl are far more pop.
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Member Since: 3/27/2012
Posts: 18,963
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Quote:
Originally posted by lonnie
No, pon de replay does not sound like baby boy.
Rihanna is from the Caribbean, she has listened to reggae and dancehall her whole life, what is it that makes you think pon de replay was a baby boy? Baby boy itself isn't even dancehall and the dancehall influences don't go beyond the sean paul verse.
And what people don't know is that MoTS was an album compiled with demos which were being handed to labels like DefJam, therefore DefJam didn't do a lot on MOTS, and since when is Bey an exotic diva? she maybe a diva but she isn't exotic. |
When did I say it sounds like Baby Boy? I didn't. I posted an image that is almost the same as a scene in Baby Boy. I was implying that while not totally musically, but image wise, Rihanna (like Milian, Ciara, Amerie, etc.) were styled as Beyonce 2.0s.
And you ask when Beyonce was an exotic diva … what? She's fair from plain looking and has been styled exotically numerous times.
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Member Since: 12/22/2011
Posts: 55,626
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Quote:
Originally posted by swissman
I'm assuming you meant me by saying "people". As if there were multiple people using an album track. But you seem to have overlooked where I said overall it is not a Beyonce sounding album.
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And others but were you referring to the image or songs because I could agree that they tried to incorporate this young fresh girl with a Beyonce esque weave to show influence of a island girl with elements of Beyonce in the visual...purchased all of Rihanna's albums...not seeing how Let me or other songs on that album show a beyonce derivative but I could note the 90s influence in songs like willing to wait and others but that wouldn't be beyonce it would come from some other artists.
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Member Since: 8/19/2013
Posts: 5,910
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Quote:
Originally posted by Johnny Cash
lol No  She's just an average R&B artist with a strong PR team which gives her the edge. |
Nope, she started from the bottom, unlike most artist that are coming in the 00s. When DC first began, their videos were cheap and they had to perform in malls, hole in the walls clubs etc, but they built up a huge fanbase and had great music. Once Bey went solo it was a wrap, her fanbase grew even more because of her talent. No PR team can build you a fanbase, to buy your albums, attend your tours, give you critical acclaim Grammys etc.
And there is no other r&b artist on her level right now or for the last 10yrs tbh. No one can match her record sells, touring receipts and overall star power. 
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Member Since: 11/28/2011
Posts: 27,495
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I think Beyonce has more influence in pop than she does RnB 
Brandy has more influence than Bey in RnB.
I would say the most influential is Brandy, R Kelly, Usher & Aaliyah (for soft spoken singers)
However Stevie Wonder is the true blueprint to the vocal aspect of RnB.
I don't see the appeal in Mary J. Blige. People only see "influence" in Kiesha Cole because they both screech off key and still sporting that hood get up. That's not influence, that's just coincidence. Musically MJB has made zero contributions to RnB. Her music has always been generic and never stood out.
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Member Since: 3/27/2012
Posts: 18,963
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Quote:
Originally posted by Monkey_Juice
Even if Rihanna was FORCED to have Beyonce IMAGERY
She never found WW Success until GGGB. Rihanna was more of a DESTINY'S CHILD FAN Than a Beyonce fan. She was found by Beyonce's man no surprise she felt the need to alway's praise here when in reality Mariah and Madonna were bigger influences.
Rihanna has also stated that Janet was the first artist she can really relate to because they both were able to infuse different genre's together. |
Okay. Let's pretend that Beyonce was not the face, voice and main creative of Destiny's Child though.
But yes, she only had success once she ditched the Beyonce-image. It makes perfect sense. You can't just be successful as someone else, you have to be successful as you (or what the public believes to be you). She wasn't going to go anywhere being compared to Beyonce. She had to forge her lane.
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