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News: New Charlie Hebdo Cover- shows Prophet Muhammad holding sign
Member Since: 3/6/2011
Posts: 11,407
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Opp.
Waits for new bombings.
Clearly this offensive magazine doesnt learn.
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Member Since: 8/18/2013
Posts: 3,164
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Who cares if you or other people think it's offensive? It's their right to publish it, just as it's your right to criticize it.
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Member Since: 1/25/2012
Posts: 44,884
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Quote:
Originally posted by Auraeolux
You are not siding with terrorists. You are siding with Muslims.
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Not necessarily. There are many Muslims who are pro Je Suis Charlie, which is sad.
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Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 473
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Quote:
Originally posted by Bríseis
Religion is an important part of self-identity to most people, often closely related to their culture and traditions.
I havent choose my religion myself and Im not a very religious/spiritual person, yet it is a huge part of me, of how I was brought up, its tied so closely to traditions and culture of my country and nation, its an important part of who I am, just as important as my race and sexuality.
Of course you can constructively and respectfuly criticize something within the religion, but it is absolutely ignorant to criticize or question the validity of a whole religion which is basically a way of life of millions of people, especially if you arent a part of it and thus can never fully understand it.
As I have stated previously, its all about respect and tolerance.
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But you do choose your religion. It's like choosing to believe in a political ideology. It's all subjective. Just because it closely tied to you, does not give it a free pass in criticism.
We (as a society) criticize bad ideas all the time whether they be political, economic theories, ethics, etc., so yes, we should be able to criticize the basis of Islam because it is an idea. Doing the opposite would be doing a disservice to the progression of human kind. Do you know how many religions came before modern religions? Thousands. How did those come out of favour, due to criticism and rationality of that time. Islam shouldn't be exempt from that process.
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Member Since: 8/31/2012
Posts: 13,110
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Some of the biggest freedoms are there because of offensiveness and outrageousness. America was born because of it. Martin Luther King Jr., Malcolm X, Gandhi, Susan B Anthony, etc were all seen as wildly offensive back in their days.
Charlie Hebdo is in the same mold.
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Member Since: 4/30/2012
Posts: 16,573
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Quote:
Originally posted by MonkeyMan
....What?
If you don't believe in Islam then you are no longer Muslim. It's your choice whether you believe it or not. That's like saying because I live in a family lineage of Republicans, that I can't just choose to be a Democrat. Yes you can. Your usage of offensive, is frankly offensive to the english language.
No one in impeding Muslims from practicing their faith. Anyone can believe what they like, but we should have the right to criticize a belief system that one believes is flawed.
Anyone with a brain knows that extremists are not the whole of the religion, but I don't understand what that point adds to the thread. No one is disputing that it is representative of ALL Muslims.
Once again, you group sexuality and race together with religion when they are not the same. Both are not chosen attributes, but religion is a idea of thought. It is different. Ideas are open to freedom of speech any way you cut it.
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My point was that in most parts of the world culture and religion are inextricably connected and it's easier said than done to just "stop believing".
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Member Since: 6/15/2010
Posts: 14,316
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@tikimiss I completely agree. Nothing justified killing 12 ppl.
Quote:
Originally posted by YouBetterPopBitch
You know it's not even Charlie Hebdo that made those caricatures in the first place but a Danish magazine, do you ? They just have taken back them.
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It wasn't even done by them in the first place? 
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Member Since: 3/6/2011
Posts: 11,407
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Freedom of speech doesn't mean you have the right to go around insulting people and their believe system.
I mean some magazines should start calling blacks, ****** slaves? i mean its freedom of speech.
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Member Since: 8/31/2012
Posts: 13,110
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Quote:
Originally posted by I. AX
Freedom of speech doesn't mean you have the right to go around insulting people and their believe system.
I mean some magazines should start calling blacks, ****** slaves? i mean its freedom of speech.
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They have the legal right to. You have the legal right to protest them, but not to kill them.
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Member Since: 1/25/2012
Posts: 44,884
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Quote:
Originally posted by TikiMiss
Some of the biggest freedoms are there because of offensiveness and outrageousness. America was born because of it. Martin Luther King Jr., Malcolm X, Gandhi, Susan B Anthony, etc were all seen as wildly offensive back in their days.
Charlie Hebdo is in the same mold.
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Those legends were pushing against society's senseless ideologies and promoted positive change. Like Yoyo said, Charlie has no message or constructive criticism, it's just blatant hate. The fact that you're comparing this satirical garbage to them is offensive in itself.
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Member Since: 8/18/2013
Posts: 21,558
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Quote:
Originally posted by MonkeyMan
....What?
If you don't believe in Islam then you are no longer Muslim. It's your choice whether you believe it or not. That's like saying because I live in a family lineage of Republicans, that I can't just choose to be a Democrat. Yes you can. Your usage of offensive, is frankly offensive to the english language.
No one in impeding Muslims from practicing their faith. Anyone can believe what they like, but we should have the right to criticize a belief system that one believes is flawed.
Anyone with a brain knows that extremists are not the whole of the religion, but I don't understand what that point adds to the thread. No one is disputing that it is representative of ALL Muslims.
Once again, you group sexuality and race together with religion when they are not the same. Both are not chosen attributes, but religion is a idea of thought. It is different. Ideas are open to freedom of speech any way you cut it.
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When you are brought up with a believe, with the rules of that believe, you are known and have adapted to it you can't just let it go. Even if you doubt and question aspects of the Islam (which is very normal for young Muslims) then there is still pressure from within the community, fear to dissapoint parents, there is so much more to it than to just 'stop believing'. That's a very Western approach that can't be expected from young Muslims.
You can critisize any religion, and you can go into an argument with someone about it.
But what Charlie Hebdo was doing was not merely criticizing the Islam face to face with its believers, using argumentations and giving Muslims the chance to respond.
In this instance extremists did, which is very sad, still the majority of Muslims should be respected and so should their faith.
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Member Since: 3/1/2014
Posts: 14,803
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Quote:
Originally posted by Rihhyonce
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Quote:
Originally posted by Rihhyonce
!!!!
People act like nearly a billion people worldwide with generations of embedded religious influence in their cultures and commuities can all of the sudden "stop" being Muslim. Like it's that easy? It's offensive to even suggest that.
I don't consider myself religious and there are a lot of things that I personally disagree with in Islam, but I respect everyone's right to practice their faith. As should everyone else, but when it comes to Islam people seem to become determined to throw that out the window. There are extremists in all religions, and Muslim acts of extremism are not representative of the entire religion. But that's not how it's portrayed in the Western world.
I know this is an unpopular opinion, but this whole #JeSuisCharlie movement is BOGUS. It's not about preserving the memory of the people who were brutally murdered, and it's not even about free speech. It's about absolving the media from any guilt and protecting their right to proliferate Islamophobic/racist/homophobic ideas under the guise of "free speech". It's gross.
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!!!!
i'm tired of people trying to pass off blatant disrespect as "satire," etc.... its extremely islamophobic. my muslim mom prayed for those killed yet you have ignorant ****ers trying to present us all as extremists. and the fact that they classify attacks on mosques, "a criminal" act when its also an act of terror. freedom of speech goes both ways.
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Member Since: 5/14/2011
Posts: 14,089
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Quote:
Originally posted by I. AX
Freedom of speech doesn't mean you have the right to go around insulting people and their believe system.
I mean some magazines should start calling blacks, ****** slaves? i mean its freedom of speech.
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Yes it does. Freedom of speech is just a rule for the government. People can't be arrested over this cover.
The argument is over whether they should or should not have done it.
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Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 473
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Quote:
Originally posted by I. AX
Freedom of speech doesn't mean you have the right to go around insulting people and their believe system.
I mean some magazines should start calling blacks, ****** slaves? i mean its freedom of speech.
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Yes it does.
Nazism is/was a belief system, should I not be able to criticize that? Of course I should.
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Member Since: 3/1/2014
Posts: 14,803
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Quote:
Originally posted by TikiMiss
Some of the biggest freedoms are there because of offensiveness and outrageousness. America was born because of it. Martin Luther King Jr., Malcolm X, Gandhi, Susan B Anthony, etc were all seen as wildly offensive back in their days.
Charlie Hebdo is in the same mold.
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umm, Martin Luther King Jr., Malcolm X, Gandhi, Susan B Anthony were fighting for their rights. this magazine is attacking a religion. not even comparable.
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Member Since: 8/31/2012
Posts: 13,110
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Quote:
Originally posted by BabyCantYouSee
Those legends were pushing against society's senseless ideologies and promoted positive change. Like Yoyo said, Charlie has no message or constructive criticism, it's just blatant hate. The fact that you're comparing this satirical garbage to them is offensive in itself.
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The underlying principle is the same. MLK, Gandhi, Malcolm X, etc all faced death threats by people who largely disagreed with their messages. Charlie Hebdo is an equal opportunity satirist, and only one of their targets happened to be Islam. The fact that people still felt the need to put them down for putting pen to paper puts them on the exact same page as The rest. They essentially martyred them.
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Member Since: 4/3/2011
Posts: 7,121
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Quote:
Originally posted by Rihhyonce
My point was that in most parts of the world culture and religion are inextricably connected and it's easier said than done to just "stop believing".
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But culture can be critized if not we wouldn't have gay rights today.
Every idea should be criticized !
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Member Since: 8/31/2012
Posts: 13,110
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Quote:
Originally posted by Iman
umm, Martin Luther King Jr., Malcolm X, Gandhi, Susan B Anthony were fighting for their rights. this magazine is attacking a religion. not even comparable.
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This magazine was fighting for the rights of press to actually publish whatever the hell they want. That's freedom of the press. That sounds pretty important to me.
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Member Since: 3/1/2014
Posts: 14,803
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Quote:
Originally posted by Bríseis
As I have stated previously, its all about respect and tolerance.
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thats all it really comes down to.
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Member Since: 8/31/2012
Posts: 13,110
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You guys are focusing too much on the surface of what Charlie published, instead of what Charlie represented. You may not agree with what Charlie had to say, but you should defend their right to say what they want.
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