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News: New Charlie Hebdo Cover- shows Prophet Muhammad holding sign
Member Since: 1/25/2012
Posts: 44,884
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Quote:
Originally posted by MonkeyMan
This comment baffles me.
Race and sexuality are not chosen attributes, religion is. Religion is an idea. ALL ideas should be subject to criticism, that in itself is the basis of critical thinking. To call some islamophobic because they criticize the validity of Islam is stupid.
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Religion is more than an idea to mostly everyone in this world. Many people also think being gay is just an idea.
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Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 473
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Quote:
Originally posted by YoYo
Religion is not just an idea like politics, it's faith.
And what Charlie hebo does isn't criticism, it's blatant disrespect.
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Faith is a buzzword, religious texts are man made documents just like any other book. All theories and ideas are criticized openly but somehow religion get's a free pass because it's "faith"?
The Westboro Baptist Church believe that their God tells them to protest funerals of dead soldiers, but that does not mean we cannot criticize what/how they believe.
Regardless of if it is disrespectful or not, they have the right to draw whatever and whomever they like. Muslims (and all people of faith) should be confident in their beliefs enough, to not be offended by a drawing.
Quote:
Originally posted by BabyCantYouSee
Religion is more than an idea to mostly everyone in this world. Many people also think being gay is just an idea.
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Well, that's nice of them to think that it is, but it shouldn't restrict the rights of those who do not.
To address the gay argument. I'm open to that discussion, but homosexuality is prevalent throughout the animal kingdom which leads many to believe that it in fact is not a chosen. If the attribute is not chosen, then it is cruel to ridicule it. But religion, is undoubtedly chosen as we all have free will.
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Member Since: 3/25/2011
Posts: 10,337
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Quote:
Originally posted by BabyCantYouSee
Religion is more than an idea to mostly everyone in this world. Many people also think being gay is just an idea.
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And those many people are wrong. So what? Feelings =/= facts. Especially primitive feelings. 
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Member Since: 4/3/2011
Posts: 7,121
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Quote:
Originally posted by BabyCantYouSee
Religion is more than an idea to mostly everyone in this world. Many people also think being gay is just an idea.
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How it is just an idea ? It's not even comparable. 
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Member Since: 4/30/2012
Posts: 16,573
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Quote:
Originally posted by YoYo
Religion is not just an idea like politics, it's faith.
And what Charlie hebo does isn't criticism, it's blatant disrespect.
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!!!!
People act like nearly a billion people worldwide with generations of embedded religious influence in their cultures and commuities can all of the sudden "stop" being Muslim. Like it's that easy? It's offensive to even suggest that.
I don't consider myself religious and there are a lot of things that I personally disagree with in Islam, but I respect everyone's right to practice their faith. As should everyone else, but when it comes to Islam people seem to become determined to throw that out the window. There are extremists in all religions, and Muslim acts of extremism are not representative of the entire religion. But that's not how it's portrayed in the Western world.
I know this is an unpopular opinion, but this whole #JeSuisCharlie movement is BOGUS. It's not about preserving the memory of the people who were brutally murdered, and it's not even about free speech. It's about absolving the media from any guilt and protecting their right to proliferate Islamophobic/racist/homophobic ideas under the guise of "free speech". It's gross.
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Member Since: 1/25/2012
Posts: 44,884
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Quote:
Originally posted by TikiMiss
God is not confined to a religion  religion is the man made worship of God. God himself, if he exists, is an entity of nature. The fact that this confuses the religious says it all 
Edit: Islam is only 500-600 years younger out of two thousand years  and the majority of these jihadists committing these acts lived in modern society. You act like they stormed out of a cave in Tajikstan |
Yeah okay, please tell me you're not one of those 'spiritualists'.
And 500-600 years ago, what the hell were many Christians and Jewish people doing? Acts of extremism.
Most Muslim countries do not live in modern societies yet.. and the ones who do are not causing these problems.
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Member Since: 6/15/2010
Posts: 14,316
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Quote:
Originally posted by TikiMiss
Thats the whole nature of satire what do you think people are doing on South Park and SNL?
Criticism wrapped in humor is powerful. Obviously so, or we wouldn't be talking about twelve people being murdered over it. |
You haven't seen the caricatures, have you?
One of them depicts the prophet holding a pig head and saying that he had sex with it because he couldn't afford a 9 year old girl
The other one was a camera man shooting a nude film of the prophet.
Absolutely no criticism. No message. Just blatant, vulgar disrespect.
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Member Since: 3/2/2014
Posts: 4,837
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"I do not agree with what you have to said, but I'll defend to the death the right to say it" - Voltaire
If it offends people, for whatever reason, I can understand it. Then, it's simple: don't watch the drawing and don't read the magazine.
They're not going to change their principles to please people. It was never the case, they have always been non politically correct. Now they have lost almost all their colleagues and friends, they are not going to shut their mouth. Of course they are provocative, that's the idea of Charlie Hebdo : provoking reactions.
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Banned
Member Since: 4/1/2012
Posts: 7,634
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Bye at everyone using 'freedom of speech' as an excuse to discriminate people. I bet christians would be fuming if some muslim would draw a pic of Hitler ****in Jesus.
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Member Since: 8/31/2012
Posts: 13,110
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Quote:
Originally posted by BabyCantYouSee
Yeah okay, please tell me you're not one of those 'spiritualists'.
And 500-600 years ago, what the hell were many Christians and Jewish people doing? Acts of extremism.
Most Muslim countries do not live in modern societies yet.. and the ones who do are not causing these problems.
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I am a rational person, which is something many religious people are not if God exists, he can not have been man made. Fact. Religion was not created by God. Fact. Religion was created by man. Fact. Sexuality was created by man. not fact.
The killers grew up in France some of the FBIs most wanted terrorists are American citizens  the only common thread is their radical religiosity and their being men,
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Member Since: 8/31/2012
Posts: 13,110
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Quote:
Originally posted by Team_Minaj
Bye at everyone using 'freedom of speech' as an excuse to discriminate people. I bet christians would be fuming if some muslim would draw a pic of Hitler ****in Jesus.
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They wouldn't kill the artist.
And that makes all the difference.
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Member Since: 8/31/2012
Posts: 13,110
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Quote:
Originally posted by YoYo
You haven't seen the caricatures, have you?
One of them depicts the prophet holding a pig head and saying that he had sex with it because he couldn't afford a 9 year old girl
The other one was a camera man shooting a nude film of the prophet.
Absolutely no criticism. No message. Just blatant, vulgar disrespect.
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Santa has been depicted as a pedophile. Jesus as many other things. Mother Mary as a prostitute, etc.
Anger is fine, but there is no validation for killing over some crude humor and satire 
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Member Since: 3/2/2014
Posts: 4,837
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Quote:
Originally posted by YoYo
You haven't seen the caricatures, have you?
One of them depicts the prophet holding a pig head and saying that he had sex with it because he couldn't afford a 9 year old girl
The other one was a camera man shooting a nude film of the prophet.
Absolutely no criticism. No message. Just blatant, vulgar disrespect.
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You know it's not even Charlie Hebdo that made those caricatures in the first place but a Danish magazine, do you ? They just have taken them back.
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Member Since: 8/1/2012
Posts: 8,763
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Quote:
Originally posted by TikiMiss
Religion is a MAN made construct just like pancakes, toilets, and political parties.
While racial and sexual lines are man made, the color of ones skin and the preferences one has in the bedroom are natural and God given.
The fact you compare these |
Quote:
Originally posted by MonkeyMan
This comment baffles me.
Race and sexuality are not chosen attributes, religion is. Religion is an idea. ALL ideas should be subject to criticism, that in itself is the basis of critical thinking. To call some islamophobic because they criticize the validity of Islam is stupid.
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Religion is an important part of self-identity to most people, often closely related to their culture and traditions.
I havent chosen my religion myself and Im not a very religious/spiritual person, yet it is a huge part of me, of how I was brought up, its tied so closely to traditions and culture of my country and nation, its an important part of who I am, just as important as my race and sexuality.
Of course you can constructively and respectfuly criticize something within the religion, but it is absolutely ignorant to criticize or question the validity of a whole religion which is basically a way of life of millions of people, especially if you arent a part of it and thus can never fully understand it.
As I have stated previously, its all about respect and tolerance.
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Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 473
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Quote:
Originally posted by Rihhyonce
!!!!
People act like nearly a billion people worldwide with generations of embedded religious influence in their cultures and commuities can all of the sudden "stop" being Muslim. Like it's that easy? It's offensive to even suggest that.
I don't consider myself religious and there are a lot of things that I personally disagree with in Islam, but I respect everyone's right to practice their faith. As should everyone else, but when it comes to Islam people seem to become determined to throw that out the window. There are extremists in all religions, and Muslim acts of extremism are not representative of the entire religion. But that's not how it's portrayed in the Western world.
I know this is an unpopular opinion, but this whole #JeSuisCharlie movement is BOGUS. It's not about preserving the memory of the people who were brutally murdered, and it's not even about free speech. It's about absolving the media from any guilt and protecting their right to proliferate Islamophobic/racist/homophobic ideas under the guise of "free speech". It's gross.
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....What?
If you don't believe in Islam then you are no longer Muslim. It's your choice whether you believe it or not. That's like saying because I live in a family lineage of Republicans, that I can't just choose to be a Democrat. Yes you can. Your usage of offensive, is frankly offensive to the english language.
No one in impeding Muslims from practicing their faith. Anyone can believe what they like, but we should have the right to criticize a belief system that one believes is flawed.
Anyone with a brain knows that extremists are not the whole of the religion, but I don't understand what that point adds to the thread. No one is disputing that it is representative of ALL Muslims.
Once again, you group sexuality and race together with religion when they are not the same. Both are not chosen attributes, but religion is a idea of thought. It is different. Ideas are open to freedom of speech any way you cut it.
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Member Since: 4/30/2011
Posts: 21,614
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Not to side with the terrorists, but CH are so dumb for this.
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Member Since: 4/13/2012
Posts: 3,421
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I respect everyone's right to practice their faith, but I also respect everyone's right to make fun of other people's faith. It's ridiculous that to this day people dedicate their lives to a force that has never shown them any proof of its existence because 2000 years ago a man came back from a cave and told people God spoke to him... All of the major religions are incredibly baseless and outdated.
Can someone tell me why it is that they are so respected just because they are old? When the bible and quaran were written people knew NOTHING about the universe, yet even though we reject their science, we decide to keep their religion...
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Member Since: 5/14/2011
Posts: 14,089
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Quote:
Originally posted by Drowned_World
Not to side with the terrorists, but CH are so dumb for this.
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You are not siding with terrorists. You are siding with Muslims.
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Member Since: 6/15/2010
Posts: 14,316
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Quote:
Originally posted by MonkeyMan
Faith is a buzzword, religious texts are man made documents just like any other book. All theories and ideas are criticized openly but somehow religion get's a free pass because it's "faith"?
The Westboro Baptist Church believe that their God tells them to protest funerals of dead soldiers, but that does not mean we cannot criticize what/how they believe.
Regardless of if it is disrespectful or not, they have the right to draw whatever and whomever they like. Muslims (and all people of faith) should be confident in their beliefs enough, to not be offended by a drawing.
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I didn't say it gets a pass, I said people are more sensitive about it because they believe it's the word of God. To those people it's not just an idea, It's something that dictates your entire life.
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Member Since: 8/31/2012
Posts: 13,110
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Charlie isn't about Islam it's about freedom versus small mindedness. Freedom has always been linked to offensiveness because some of the freedoms we enjoy today and take for granted, were won for us by people considered to be offensive during their day.
Offensiveness is important to human society, which is what he Charlie movement is about in actuality.
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