Just about everyone on this thread is looking at this from an artist perspective. One of the main problems I have with the stans on ATRL is that they seem to not realise that being a pop star is a business, it's a brand.
To make an album, the label pays for the costs associated. They hire the producers, the studio the song writers etc etc etc and they get their money back when the single/album sells. You will find, that a lot of newer artists, a lot of pop girls in the begining stages of their careers did not write many of their songs. Why? Because the label doesn't take that risk. They are not established enough to make those demands.
Once an artist is established and has a fan base, they can start having much more creative input. Songwriting isn't an indication of anything at all. It's always a negotiation between the label and the artists management.
If they're good lyrics then it's a talent. Anybody can pull together a sentence and sing it to a tune or slap their name on a song after changing a word or two in the chorus, but if the lyrics mean something then that's a talent and is not overrated and is really challenging.
When you write your own material means your heart, mind and soul is in your music, sometimes you write amazing lyrics, ok lyrics and bad lyrics. 3 or 4 bad songs is nothing when you have other amazing songs.
7 writers for this.
Quote:
It's not even my birthday (my birthday)
But he wann lick the icing off. (icing off)
I know you want it in the worst way. (the worst way)
Can't wait to blow my candles out.
He want that cake cake cake cake cake cake cake cake cake cake cake cake cake cake cake (Bet ya wanna put your name on it)
Uh, baby I like it,
It's so excited.
Don't try to hide it,
Imma make you my b*tch.
Cake cake cake cake cake cake cake cake cake cake cake cake cake cake cake (bet you wanna put your name on it)
However some people claim, "it's so easy, anybody can do it". Some of your faves can't even write ****** lyrics for themselves, that's how talented they are.
Just about everyone on this thread is looking at this from an artist perspective. One of the main problems I have with the stans on ATRL is that they seem to not realise that being a pop star is a business, it's a brand.
To make an album, the label pays for the costs associated. They hire the producers, the studio the song writers etc etc etc and they get their money back when the single/album sells. You will find, that a lot of newer artists, a lot of pop girls in the begining stages of their careers did not write many of their songs. Why? Because the label doesn't take that risk. They are not established enough to make those demands.
Once an artist is established and has a fan base, they can start having much more creative input. Songwriting isn't an indication of anything at all. It's always a negotiation between the label and the artists management.
I agree with all of this, but since people have been discussing Taylor Swift let me add something: in her case I would say she is an exception to what you described because at 14 she was hired as a songwriter by Sony. RCA records gave her a development deal around the same age because of her songwriting talent. Therefore she had the change to write with great songwriters when she wasn't even 15 yet.
Also, she's her main boss. I mean yes there are still people like Scott Borchetta who has the last word but she was the first artist on Big Machine Records. She helped building a brand new label from the ground up, that isn't nothing.
When you write your own material means your heart, mind and soul is in your music, sometimes you write amazing lyrics, ok lyrics and bad lyrics. 3 or 4 bad songs is nothing when you have other amazing songs.
7 writers for this.
However some people claim, "it's so easy, anybody can do it". Some of your faves can't even write ****** lyrics for themselves, that's how talented they are.
Bad lyrics are bad lyrics, whether they were written by an artist or by someone else. You don't get more credit just for writing bad lyrics on our own
Just about everyone on this thread is looking at this from an artist perspective. One of the main problems I have with the stans on ATRL is that they seem to not realise that being a pop star is a business, it's a brand.
To make an album, the label pays for the costs associated. They hire the producers, the studio the song writers etc etc etc and they get their money back when the single/album sells. You will find, that a lot of newer artists, a lot of pop girls in the begining stages of their careers did not write many of their songs. Why? Because the label doesn't take that risk. They are not established enough to make those demands.
Once an artist is established and has a fan base, they can start having much more creative input. Songwriting isn't an indication of anything at all. It's always a negotiation between the label and the artists management.
Not when many artists (Lorde, Taylor Swift, Ed Sheeran and countless others) first got record deals based on the strength of their songwriting Where would Gwen Stefani be today if she hadn't written Don't Speak? Would anyone have ever heard of Alanis Morrissette if she had never written all of Jagged Little Pill? Those people are able to rise to stardom based on the strength of their songwriting, not because they had hit songs written for them and then got permission to be involved in their own damn music
Or perhaps I was mistaken to think this was a discussion of artistic/musical merit rather than one of branding and commercialism.
Not when many artists (Lorde, Taylor Swift, Ed Sheeran and countless others) first got record deals based on the strength of their songwriting Where would Gwen Stefani be today if she hadn't written Don't Speak? Would anyone have ever heard of Alanis Morrissette if she had never written all of Jagged Little Pill? Those people are able to rise to stardom based on their strength of songwriting, not because they had hit songs written for them and then got permission to be involved in their own damn music
Or perhaps I was mistaken to think this was a discussion of artistic/musical merit rather than one of branding and commercialism.
Not when many artists (Lorde, Taylor Swift, Ed Sheeran and countless others) first got record deals based on the strength of their songwriting Where would Gwen Stefani be today if she hadn't written Don't Speak? Would anyone have ever heard of Alanis Morrissette if she had never written all of Jagged Little Pill? Those people are able to rise to stardom based on their strength of songwriting, not because they had hit songs written for them and then got permission to be involved in their own damn music
Or perhaps I was mistaken to think this was a discussion of artistic/musical merit rather than one of branding and commercialism.
You're misunderstanding - Artists can certainly be noticed based on song writing ability. That's for sure, they can come to a label with a concept and the label then change what they want to change. Let's take a look at your examples tho.
Royals: Ella Yelich O'Connor and Joel Little
Tennis court: Ella Yelich O'Connor and Joel Little
Team: Ella Yelich O'Connor and Joel Little
I'm not going to go through to whole album, but you get the idea. The artist os always going to be credited with a song writing credit if they go to a label with a concept.
Don't speak - Writer(s) Eric Stefani, Gwen Stefani
I could go on with every example you provided, but I wont.
There is no negativity in my reply to you, nor will i laugh at you like you incorrectly did to me. There's no shame in not knowing how this works but you should be happy that I'm helping you understand: Songwriting like it or not will always be subject to the labels decisions regardless you being noticed in the first instance for having the ability.
Very few artists are able to write songs on their own
Madonna for example has more songs written in her first album, written entirly by herself than many of the pop girls have in their entire careers today.
Bad lyrics are bad lyrics, whether they were written by an artist or by someone else. You don't get more credit just for writing bad lyrics on our own
Ch....
but you get credit for writing great songs, as those artists you named and they did it by themselves.
Quote:
"State Of Grace"
I'm walking fast through the traffic lights
Busy streets and busy lives
And all we know
Is touch and go
We are alone with our changing minds
We fall in love 'til it hurts or bleeds or fades in time
And I never (never) saw you coming
And I'll never (never) be the same
You come around and the armor falls
Pierce the room like a cannonball
Now all we know is don't let go
We are alone, just you and me
Up in your room and our slates are clean
Just twin fire signs
Four blue eyes
So you were never a saint
And I’ve loved in shades of wrong
We learn to live with the pain
Mosaic broken hearts
But this love is brave and wild
Quote:
Pull up in the monster
automobile gangster
with a bad b-tch that came from Sri Lanka
yeah I’m in that Tonka, color of Willy Wonka
you could be the King but watch the Queen conquer
ok first things first I’ll eat your brains
then I’mma start rocking gold teeth and fangs
cause that’s what a muthaf-cking monster do
hairdresser from Milan, that’s the monster do
monster Giuseppe heel that’s the monster shoe
Young Money is the roster and the monster crew
and I’m all up all up all up in the bank with the funny face
and if I’m fake I ain’t notice cause my money ain’t
let me get this straight wait I’m the rookie
but my features and my shows ten times your pay?
50k for a verse, no album out!
yeah my money’s so tall that my barbie’s gotta climb it
hotter than a middle eastern climate
find it Tony Matterhorn duty wine it
while it, Nicki on them titties when I sign it
how these n-ggas so one-track minded
but really really I don’t give a F-U-C-K
forget barbie f-ck Nicki she’s fake
she’s on a diet but my pockets eating cheese cake
and I’ll say bride of Chucky is Child’s play
just killed another career it’s a mild day
besides ‘Ye they can’t stand besides me
I think me, you and Am [Amber Rose] should menage Friday
pink wig thick ass give em whip lash
I think big get cash make em blink fast
now look at what you just saw I think this is what you live for
aaahhh, I’m a muthaf-cking monster!
Quote:
And it's dark in a cold December, but I've got you to keep me warm
If you're broken I will mend you and I'll keep you sheltered from the storm that's raging on now
I'm out of touch, I'm out of luck
I'll pick you up when you're getting down
And out of all these things I've done I think I love you better now
I'm out of sight, I'm out of mind
I'll do it all for you in time
And out of all these things I've done I think I love you better now
I'm gonna paint you by numbers
And color you in
If things go right we can frame it and put you on a wall
And it's so hard to say it but I've been there before
Now I'll surrender up my heart
And swap it for yours
You're misunderstanding - Artists can certainly be noticed based on song writing ability. That's for sure, they can come to a label with a concept and the label then change what they want to change. Let's take a look at your examples tho.
Don't speak - Writer(s) Eric Stefani, Gwen Stefani
I could go on with every example you provided, but I wont.
You're joking, right? Did you happen to notice Eric's last name is Stefani? As in Gwen's brother? As in the founding member of No Doubt? Please don't talk **** if you don't know ****, Tragic Kingdom is written entirely by No Doubt, and Gwen's decision to take over the main songwriting role for the band is widely credited as the reason for their mainstream breakthrough. Funny you were accusing me of simply Googling Amy in an earlier thread (when I'm a huge fan who doesn't need Google) when you've clearly just pulled up the Wikipedia article on Don't Speak.
Joel Little is credited as a writer on Pure Heroine mostly because he produced the songs and then had a little input into the writing process. As someone who professes to be a Lorde fan, I would expect you know that Lorde writes all her own material. She is in control of her music. Or did her label decide to write her a song discussing the merits and woes of consumerism because it would obviously smash?
Quote:
There is no negativity in my reply to you, nor will i laugh at you like you incorrectly did to me. There's no shame in not knowing how this works but you should be happy that I'm helping you understand: Songwriting like it or not will always be subject to the labels decisions regardless you being noticed in the first instance for having the ability.
Very few artists are able to write songs on their own
Madonna for example has more songs written in her first album, written entirly by herself than many of the pop girls have in their entire careers today.
You're so patronizing. It's nearly sickening. You constantly act like you have some amazing industry knowledge when you truly don't know anything more than the rest of us. There are two equally viable paths into the music industry: one where you music is written for you (and you could eventually get some input once you're successful), or one where you write all your stuff from the beginning and get recognition that way. As you've even pointed out, Madonna was in charge of musical output from the very beginning, an example of the latter approach.
Not at all. And I like the Taylor and Ed lyrics in the OP.....the Ed lyrics seem funny/bad when you take them out the song like that, but you have to listen to the whole song to get a feel for it.
Where would Gwen Stefani be today if she hadn't written Don't Speak? Would anyone have ever heard of Alanis Morrissette if she had never written all of Jagged Little Pill? Those people are able to rise to stardom based on the strength of their songwriting, not because they had hit songs written for them and then got permission to be involved in their own damn music 
