|
Discussion: Gaga's Recipe for Flop - Little Monsters?
Member Since: 11/26/2010
Posts: 14,197
|
Quote:
Originally posted by Misanthrope
This isn't anger, its argument.
I cursed! How could I be so class-less! My god.
If I think someones point of view is dumb than I have no qualms about expressing that. I guess its not acceptable on here but i'd rather be honest than watered down for the sake of not offending you people.
|
You hurt my feelings. Apologize.
|
|
|
Member Since: 8/31/2013
Posts: 8,960
|
Quote:
Originally posted by bleuwaffle
You hurt my feelings. Apologize.
|
lol never
But honestly im not angry but considering the fact that people don't tend to get in heated debates on here without stan humor involved I could see how I come off incredibly hostile by comparison.
I mean i am rude though but I don't really care. Sometimes I feel its necessary because lets be honest, some people have the most twisted point of views on **** like this. I mean stan culture is a trip.
|
|
|
Member Since: 9/22/2011
Posts: 9,178
|
While some of her stans do too much, let's be real here, there are those elements in every single fanbase.
The reason Gaga's getting knocked down several pegs is primarily because people are tired of her. I'm a Gaga fan and it's obvious to me that what made her interesting and exciting at first has gotten old for everyone but the most ardent of her fans.
And that's perfectly normal. The pop landscape shifts constantly and artists at the top of their game one moment can easily find themselves irrelevant and "replaced" the next unless they switch up their brand to either accommodate current trends or (even riskier) attempt to position themselves ahead of the curve.
Gaga came blasting through the gate in 2008 with a style and sound that was not only fresh, but filled a gaping hole in the mainstream that begged for theatricality and large-than-life performers. Fast-forward several years down the road and she's done little to switch it up. She may talk a big game about stripping it all back or whatever early in the ARTPOP era, but she's still serving you space-alien looks and tongue-in-cheek hypersexuality. Whether she's unable to switch it up for the sake of maintaining her mainstream position or just plain unwilling to (I'd gamble on her stubbornness any day), the crowd has moved on and Gaga is being left behind.
As she continues to focuses on her very particular brand that the mainstream no longer uses, it is likely she will become less and less popular. And I'm mostly find with that, seeing as I enjoy a whole slew of artists and performers who will never enjoy a lick of mainstream success, and they do just fine.
Gaga is talented, driven and a capable songwriter and musician. Even if the big leagues of pop (and their consumers) are done with her, I'm still here for her output as long as she keeps giving me the thing that I love: her music.
|
|
|
Member Since: 3/5/2011
Posts: 30,130
|
Quote:
Originally posted by bleuwaffle
Exactly. This album is a big bunch of mumbo jumbo. A mess, really.
|
Messy concepts turn into messy eras. And this has been her messiest yet.
|
|
|
Banned
Member Since: 11/24/2009
Posts: 61,404
|
Stop the Blame Game.
It's her own fault.
|
|
|
Member Since: 8/31/2013
Posts: 8,960
|
Quote:
Originally posted by Arking
While some of her stans do too much, let's be real here, there are those elements in every single fanbase.
The reason Gaga's getting knocked down several pegs is primarily because people are tired of her. I'm a Gaga fan and it's obvious to me that what made her interesting and exciting at first has gotten old for everyone but the most ardent of her fans.
And that's perfectly normal. The pop landscape shifts constantly and artists at the top of their game one moment can easily find themselves irrelevant and "replaced" the next unless they switch up their brand to either accommodate current trends or (even riskier) attempt to position themselves ahead of the curve.
Gaga came blasting through the gate in 2008 with a style and sound that was not only fresh, but filled a gaping hole in the mainstream that begged for theatricality and large-than-life performers. Fast-forward several years down the road and she's done little to switch it up. She may talk a big game about stripping it all back or whatever early in the ARTPOP era, but she's still serving you space-alien looks and tongue-in-cheek hypersexuality. Whether she's unable to switch it up for the sake of maintaining her mainstream position or just plain unwilling to (I'd gamble on her stubbornness any day), the crowd has moved on and Gaga is being left behind.
As she continues to focuses on her very particular brand that the mainstream no longer uses, it is likely she will become less and less popular. And I'm mostly find with that, seeing as I enjoy a whole slew of artists and performers who will never enjoy a lick of mainstream success, and they do just fine.
Gaga is talented, driven and a capable songwriter and musician. Even if the big leagues of pop (and their consumers) are done with her, I'm still here for her output as long as she keeps giving me the thing that I love: her music.
|
She doesn't have a particular brand. Her brand is mainstream pop music. Its not that shes being left behind because shes not producing music that could be popular, shes being cast aside because of how she sells herself. She once played the game to her benefit while still maintaining her identity and now she seems to not play the game to her benefit at all. She needs to get her image together. She needs to look appealing as well as sound appealing yet she'd rather prance around in a homemade seashell bra with an ugly overly teased wig. I mean im sorry, but she needs to look the part. Even when she looked odd during The Fame Monster era she still looked high end for the most part. She doesn't look as high end anymore and people will argue that thats shallow and it probably is but pop music is pretty shallow. Look good/cool and people will respond, theres no reason songs like Do What U Want and Sex Dreams should be underperformers.
|
|
|
Member Since: 3/5/2011
Posts: 30,130
|
Quote:
Originally posted by Nicole
Stop the Blame Game.
It's her own fault.
|
Not necessarily the blame game, because I totally think it is her fault. But I think reading her fans' opinions has contributed to her ideas that things haven't gone wrong.
|
|
|
Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 13,761
|
I agree with quite a few posts in this thread, like those from J a y, Vespertine and Arking, but this is my take on the fans:
I never really liked the whole 'Little Monsters' thing. I've considered myself a massive fan of Gaga but not once have I considered myself a 'monster'.
The innate problem with the whole 'monster' thing, especially during the Born This Way era, was that she was perpetuating this dichotomy between fans and non-fans, the bullied and the bullies, the outcasts and the cool kids, that was completely counter-intuitive to it's message of acceptance and equality.
I think a lot more elements factor into Gaga's downfall but I certainly agree with the notion of Gaga fracturing her audience even more with these 'super fans'.
There is a part of Gaga that is highly vicarious and that she wants to please her fans and the people around her. She needs to be a lot more self-involved with her music and stop making it into some love letter to her fans. This can destroy her music. She needs to gain perspective on her position as a pop musician and make music with vision and artistic integrity behind it.
I wouldn't blame the monsters to be the entire root of her problem but defining your die-hard fans can be both a good thing and a bad thing. I guess it might be working against her right now, or it could just be CHARTrl propaganda not helping people right now.
|
|
|
Member Since: 8/17/2013
Posts: 13,869
|
Let me post my farewell rant from my blog a few months ago:
Quote:
Originally posted by Bayonsay
Ok y'all know I'm (is/ was/idk) a Gaga stan but I'm literally pretty much all the way done with her. If it's not her pretentiousness and her ART music it's the monsters calling me out just because I don't use every damn song she releases. When Gaga stole my wig back in 2009, I received life, she served me bop after bop afer bop. TFM basically slayed my life, everything was perfect, then she came out with BTW. I gave her a chance and just waited it out because I love her, even though I was only really here for Judas, Marry The Night and Scheiße.
Late 2012 and we meet BrunetteGa, I was so hyped, I liked where she was going with everything, the look, the hair, everything. When she shared Cake Like Lady Gaga my soul was slayed, even though the song wasn't serious I was here for it, I was here for ratchet Gaga. I had hope, I was like "Yaaaaaasss Gaga is going to peel my edges with ARTPOP!". WRONG
So now Gaga brings a whole new level of pretentiousness to the table with Applause. At first I hated it because of the promo she did for it. It was too much, but it was a grower and it's in my top 3 songs of 2013. Ok so now Gaga is kinda winning me back, (yaaaaasss). itunes festival comes along, I watched it, was slayed but then after the hyped dyed down a few hours later I think, "ok which songs do I even like? ". Plus thinking about how much ART this and ART that she spewed out during the entire set. Sex Dreams and Applause were the only ones I really used.
So then Gaga starts to release her snippets and the serves us DWUW. DWUW is my 2nd fav on ARTPOP so I was happy, but every snippets since then ARTPOP sounds terrible (I love the instrumental though), and Venus is just a mess. All this accompanied by her seemingly attention seeking promotion has really threw me off of her. Her music is just not doing it for me anymore.
So yeah today after I saw this;
I realised that I don't even think I'm a monster anymore like maybe I'm the only one, but to me she just seems to exude pretension, I just can't anymore I want to claim her so badly, but I'm finding it really hard now. Maybe when I hear the rest of the album, I'll come running back in my broken stilettos, but right now I feel like I'm drifting away .
|
So that's pretty much how she lost me, in addition to her constantly surrounding herself with yes men.
|
|
|
Member Since: 1/8/2012
Posts: 26,732
|
at this thread.
|
|
|
Member Since: 3/5/2011
Posts: 30,130
|
Quote:
Originally posted by Bayonsay
Let me post my farewell rant from my blog a few months ago:
So that's pretty much how she lost me, in addition to her constantly surrounding herself with yes men.
|
The yes-men thing really gets me...
|
|
|
Member Since: 9/22/2011
Posts: 9,178
|
Quote:
Originally posted by Misanthrope
She doesn't have a particular brand. Her brand is mainstream pop music. Its not that shes being left behind because shes not producing music that could be popular, shes being cast aside because of how she sells herself. She once played the game to her benefit while still maintaining her identity and now she seems to not play the game to her benefit at all. She needs to get her image together. She needs to look appealing as well as sound appealing yet she'd rather prance around in a homemade seashell bra with an ugly overly teased wig. I mean im sorry, but she needs to look the part. Even when she looked odd during The Fame Monster era she still looked high end for the most part. She doesn't look as high end anymore and people will argue that thats shallow and it probably is but pop music is pretty shallow. Look good/cool and people will respond, theres no reason songs like Do What U Want and Sex Dreams should be underperformers.
|
I respect your opinion but this is where we disagree. Whether it was the Ziggy Stardust-inspired Fame era, where she humorously critiqued elements of celebrity culture all while positioning herself deep within it as some shallow futuristic space diva pop star, or the rampant hair rock-inspired fist pumping self-love anthems of BTW, I believe she's always distanced herself from the rest of pop music with her "art girl in a pop world"-brand. And while it worked in her favor early in her career, her unwillingness to compromise her brand with the current pop styles and values is what is doing her in.
|
|
|
Member Since: 1/7/2014
Posts: 4,510
|
While all of you are making excellent, well-written points about why Gaga is in the decline. I do think the her stans have very low impact.
I will say: Look at the comments for the "Just Dance" and "Poker Face" videos on YouTube.
"I miss the old Gaga"
"she looked so hot like this"
|
|
|
Member Since: 3/5/2011
Posts: 30,130
|
Quote:
Originally posted by theworldfamous
While all of you are making excellent, well-written points about why Gaga is in the decline. I do think the her stans have very low impact.
I will say: Look at the comments for the "Just Dance" and "Poker Face" videos on YouTube.
"I miss the old Gaga"
"she looked so hot like this"
|
Applause is very 'old Gaga', though. But people are unwilling to commit to her for fear of being associated with the outcasts and rejects that comprise her fan base...
|
|
|
Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 11,555
|
Quote:
Originally posted by Darren-5-08
Applause is very 'old Gaga', though. But people are unwilling to commit to her for fear of being associated with the outcasts and rejects that comprise her fan base...
|
I think when people say Old gaga they mean fun gaga. The thing I like in applause MV is the bikini shell outfit. She actually looks pretty and doesn't look weird.
That's what people want. Her putting her head on a swan is just...no. And the lyrics to applause
I thought she was REALLY pretty when Pokerface came out, but now it looks like she has aged by like 10-15 years. She's doing too much.
It's not really like she's just ugly not because she does look really nice sometimes, but majority of the other times I'm just like Why would you want to look like that?
It's never good to abandon the concept people fell in love with you with. People didn't give gaga a 7x platinum single for being weird. It was for giving them fun, nice, pop smashes.
She doesn't have to make "generic" music to have music the public wants. She just needs to stop making music she thinks her little monsters will like and start making music everyone likes. She's a POP star. When you stop making pop music, you will not keep your relevance.
|
|
|
Member Since: 3/5/2011
Posts: 30,130
|
Quote:
Originally posted by Kkamjong
I think when people say Old gaga they mean fun gaga. The thing I like in applause MV is the bikini shell outfit. She actually looks pretty and doesn't look weird.
That's what people want. Her putting her head on a swan is just...no. And the lyrics to applause
I thought she was REALLY pretty when Pokerface came out, but now it looks like she has aged by like 10-15 years. She's doing too much.
It's not really like she's just ugly not because she does look really nice sometimes, but majority of the other times I'm just like Why would you want to look like that?
It's never good to abandon the concept people fell in love with you with. People didn't give gaga a 7x platinum single for being weird. It was for giving them fun, nice, pop smashes.
She doesn't have to make "generic" music to have music the public wants. She just needs to stop making music she thinks her little monsters will like and start making music everyone likes. She's a POP star. When you stop making pop music, you will not keep your relevance.
|
She definitely needs to stop making music for the fans. If firsts week sales are anything to go by, there are less than 500k of them WW willing to buy the music. Appeal to the GP, and turn them into fans.
|
|
|
Member Since: 3/16/2012
Posts: 13,657
|
Quote:
Originally posted by Vespertine
The only problem I see is that ARTPOP as a concept just isn't that strong and wasn't executed correctly. The music itself is mostly great. But there's a disconnect.
I remember Gaga saying The Fame was all about feeling famous even when you aren't. BTW was about self-empowerment. She totally nailed both of those concepts imo. When you're feeling ******, listening to The Fame can make you feel like you're on top of the world. And though I rarely feel like some social outcast, I still get a good feeling from BTW, like no one can tell me what to do. But what am I supposed to feel with ARTPOP? Like I'm artistic? I do that myself by creating my own art, I don't need to listen to a song telling me ART and POP can belong together (though the song itself is admittedly glorious).
In my eyes, this era could've been so much stronger conceptually if she tweaked the album a bit and just made it Goddess of Love. There are already a lot of great sex or love songs on the album, and she could've pushed the mythology stuff to the front and just made it more solid all around.
The only problem with the fans is that the "real" fans tell her "yaaass this is the definition of artistic achievement," which perhaps feeds her ego. But it's still up to her to make the final calls
|
I agree. It's something MusicTalker has been expressing too when it comes to the many of the visuals (by IVH) toying around technology. The music isn't even off-putting. It's good, it's fun and nice. And Gaga will always dress crazy once in a while because that's who she is.
In the end, it's Gaga's own fault that she alienated her fans and diminished her appeal by defining a blueprint of how a fan of hers should behave or where do those fans come from.
|
|
|
Member Since: 1/6/2014
Posts: 143
|
Quote:
Originally posted by Darren-5-08
She definitely needs to stop making music for the fans. If firsts week sales are anything to go by, there are less than 500k of them WW willing to buy the music. Appeal to the GP, and turn them into fans.
|
The assumption y'all take that Gaga wants to be a famous Pop Star – not anymore, she’s a musician (widely recognized in the industry), she’s also (wants to be) art creator and art curator.
Little Monsters? In fact stans are important the same way claqueurs are (were). The fact she loves to interact with them – isn’t it cute?
|
|
|
Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 15,836
|
This. I liked her music from TF/TFM when i heard it on the radio, but then i re-discovered Britney and introduced myself on the stan world on Facebook. There, i had to deal with tons and tons of Little Monsters trashing everyone and their mothers because "Gaga surpassed all of those flops and was the new queen of pop". Thats when i started disliking her, add to that the BTW album not living up to her previous records and im done with her. She had me considering being a fan for the first time with Applause and DWUW, but then she started with all that Album of The Millenium, not releasing the DWUW video, etc so i said hell to the ****ing no
|
|
|
Member Since: 2/8/2012
Posts: 10,532
|
The GP isn't aware of stuff like this, but I 100% agree with you on the monsters' growing power over her career. They have too much input and it's definitely messing with her.
As far as the GP goes, Gaga's lost her cool factor. That's what made her popular; she was mysterious and somehow blended all the right images and ideas together to become the perfect pop star. Now she just seems weird, and not necessarily in a good way. She's not putting out the sort of strange, glamorous pop persona that many, and I, personally, fell in love with. And before I'm pounced on, I'm not suggesting that she return to The Fame. I'm just saying it's like she's an entirely different person to the GP.
I agree with a bunch of you: she needs to quit making music "for her fans." I mean, of course artists make music for their fans, but she's putting out what she thinks her fans will love over all else, which is NEVER a good idea, for any pop star.
|
|
|
|
|