[Lord Blackout]

Originally posted by lightstheyblindme

lol I'm not using this to defend Bernie or whatever - using his primary numbers with minorities to extrapolate how he would do with minorities as a hypothetical general election candidate is nonsensical but whatever helps you sleep at night.
I'm actually just making the point that Hillary flopped with Hispanic voters. you don't seem to understand my point so I'll reiterate: the biggest focus of Trump's campaign was that immigrants and specifically undocumented Mexican immigrants were the cause of rural White America's lack of economic opportunity. He literally ran a campaign of hate against them comparable to Strohm Thurmond/Jesse Helms' campaign against black voters in the south. and then about a third of Latino voters STILL decided to go to the polls for Donald Trump. Hillary should have won 90% of these voters like she did with black voters. Instead, her percentage of Latino voters was in the 60's. That is pathetic that she only got that much of the Latino/Hispanic vote against Donald Trump. She basically decided to not even make a claim for white working class voters, she conceded them from the start - so to win she knew she had to drum up really high minority numbers and she couldn't do it. The numbers were there for her to win but she wasn't popular enough with Latino/Hispanic voters against Donald Trump to win the election.

Again, she won the popular vote by 2% when she bombed with whites and underperformed with the AAs compared to Obama. Who do you think gave her that win, Aliens? Trump simply energized Latinos who actually are vehemently against illegal immigration. Many of those exist actually. It doesn't mean she under-performed with Latinos. There's a reason Latino heavy states like AZ and CA saw a massive Dem shift under her while white and black heavy states saw heavy Rep shifts and it ain't the Latinos staying home.

[Lord Blackout]

And I've never made a hypothetical statement about Bernie once. Ever. Because I simply don't care about that. I'm more interested in stopping him from hijacking the next primary.

[LuLuDrops]

Originally posted by lightstheyblindme

lol I'm not using this to defend Bernie or whatever - using his primary numbers with minorities to extrapolate how he would do with minorities as a hypothetical general election candidate is nonsensical but whatever helps you sleep at night.

I'm actually just making the point that Hillary flopped with Hispanic voters. you don't seem to understand my point so I'll reiterate: the biggest focus of Trump's campaign was that immigrants and specifically undocumented Mexican immigrants were the cause of rural White America's lack of economic opportunity. He literally ran a campaign of hate against them comparable to Strohm Thurmond/Jesse Helms' campaign against black voters in the south. and then about a third of Latino voters STILL decided to go to the polls for Donald Trump. Hillary should have won 90% of these voters like she did with black voters. Instead, her percentage of Latino voters was in the 60's. That is pathetic that she only got that much of the Latino/Hispanic vote against Donald Trump. She basically decided to not even make a claim for white working class voters, she conceded them from the start - so to win she knew she had to drum up really high minority numbers and she couldn't do it. The numbers were there for her to win but she wasn't popular enough with Latino/Hispanic voters against Donald Trump to win the election.

Some of them just agree with GOP policies, but there are also more "coconuts" than Uncle Toms in the USA, hence why more Latinos vote Republican than other groups and that's nationwide, not just Florida. The cannibalization of fellow Hispanics not born here is prevalent even in schools. The talking points of "he's only talking about illegals and not us" that you hear on Fox News is what a lot of Hispanic conservatives echo; it's an 'oh well not my problem' type of mentality within my community. Nonchalance is what keeps at least 30% of Latinos in the GOP.

Personal anecdotes: The Latino border patrol agents are the worst here, they grill people more than the black and white ones. I've heard racial slurs from someone born here (not Border Patrol) when I was younger used against another Latino from Mexicali.

[Damien M]

Originally posted by Lord Blackout

Nah, their numbers were incredible in Arizona and California. If the dems can find out whatever happened there and apply it to the swing states, they can turn Hispanics into the new AAs and not have to focus so much on the WWC.

There aren't any significant hispanic #s in other swing states though.
Michigan was lost when black voters in Detroit stayed home, PA was lost when she lost all those white counties that Obama won, Wisconsin she lost bc of her arrogance
No idea why she lost Ohio and FL other than her just being a bad candidate.

[lightstheyblindme]

Originally posted by Lord Blackout

Again, she won the popular vote by 2% when she bombed with whites and underperformed with the AAs compared to Obama. Who do you think gave her that win, Aliens? Trump simply energized Latinos who actually are vehemently against illegal immigration. Many of those exist actually. It doesn't mean she under-performed with Latinos. There's a reason Latino heavy states like AZ and CA saw a massive Dem shift under her while white and black heavy states saw heavy Rep shifts and it ain't the Latinos staying home.

I don't know why you keep clinging to that popular vote win for dear life when we both know it's irrelevant and that Don will be president in less than 7 weeks.

[Lord Blackout]

Originally posted by Damien M

There aren't any significant hispanic #s in other swing states though.
Michigan was lost when black voters in Detroit stayed home, PA was lost when she lost all those white counties that Obama won, Wisconsin she lost bc of her arrogance
No idea why she lost Ohio and FL other than her just being a bad candidate.

That's what I'm saying. They need to duplicate whatever happened in those 2 states because the US population is becoming more and more hispanic and they need to claim that demo like they did with the AAs. Especially Latino millennials.

Originally posted by lightstheyblindme

I don't know why you keep clinging to that popular vote win for dear life when we both know it's irrelevant and that Don will be president in less than 7 weeks.

We're talking about Latinos here. Actual people and that's reflected by votes not chunks of land that decide the EC.

[Lord Blackout]

https://twitter.com/fawfulfan/status/805493798809796608

This is ****ed up. She's being done like Hillary was during the Comey scandal.

[lightstheyblindme]

Originally posted by Lord Blackout

That's what I'm saying. They need to duplicate whatever happened in those 2 states because the US population is becoming more and more hispanic and they need to claim that demo like they did with the AAs. Especially Latino millennials.

minorities won't make up a majority of eligible voters for another 27 years so until then Democrats are going to need to learn how to campaign to white rust belters again

[LuLuDrops]

Who's more salvageable, Ohio or Iowa?

I feel like Ohio with good job plans might check us out again while Iowa is just going to keep trending to the right even if it would've taken less votes to flip.

[Lord Blackout]

Originally posted by lightstheyblindme

minorities won't make up a majority of eligible voters for another 27 years so until then Democrats are going to need to learn how to campaign to white rust belters again

White rust belters are a Hillary thing, not a Democrats thing. After the GOP screws them over, they'll come back to the Dems as we nominate some white guy who's not a serious businessman like Romney. They always swing. Latinos is an audience that we can turn into an 80+% democrat group if we keep on hitting them with their issues.

[Mike91]

Originally posted by Aden

If Hillary was a "weak" candidate, then Bernie would have been a disaster. Given his track record with minorities, Trump's electoral count would have easily reached into the 400s. That is how bad he would have creamed Bernie. Do I need to remind his supporters of how he trailed Hillary by millions of votes in the primaries? If his supporters didn't even show up at the primaries, how could we have trusted his supporters to show up on election day?

1. Primaries are not the same thing as general elections. Exit polls showed a majority of democratic primary voters wanted a continuation of Obama's policies, one of the very things that cost Hillary. This was a change election.

2. In case it wasn't obvious, this election was not held in 1996. The rulebook didn't apply. You're basing this off of previous elections when it was clear people wanted drastic change in Washington. As much as I wanted Clinton to win, it really wouldn't have been fitting for her to win in the end as this election was essentially Bernie's message vs. Trump's message. She just never fit in with the current political climate. She tried moving towards the middle at times but these election are base elections now.

She tried adapting to the environment by taking some of Bernie's message but it never came off as authentic, hence why the blue firewall collapsed. She wasn't able to win over the democratic voters who voted for Bernie in the primary.

The rust belt, Iowa, etc would have been in play if Bernie were the nominee. Even he would have lost a Nevada, he would have made up for it somewhere else.

[Lord Blackout]

Originally posted by LuLuDrops

Who's more salvageable, Ohio or Iowa?

I feel like Ohio with good job plans might check us out again while Iowa is just going to keep trending to the right even if it would've taken less votes to flip.

Didn't Ohio become overwhelmingly whiter since 2012?

[LuLuDrops]

51.1% 41.7%

Or would Iowa be more likely to flip? 10% of people there just went third party

[Mike91]

Originally posted by Lord Blackout

White rust belters are a Hillary thing, not a Democrats thing. After the GOP screws them over, they'll come back to the Dems as we nominate some white guy who's not a serious businessman like Romney. They always swing. Latinos is an audience that we can turn into an 80+% democrat group if we keep on hitting them with their issues.

I agree. We have not lost the rust belt. It's just the wife of the person who signed NAFTA was the nominee.

Bad timing.

[lightstheyblindme]

anyway, I'm not trying to write anymore essays I'm just dumbfounded that a few of you still somehow believe that Hillary was a strong candidate. It's baffling really that you would choose to blame a litany of external factors rather than see what's right in front of you.

Bernie created a movement and excited the Democratic base. He drew non-traditional Democratic voters into the fold and made millennials want to get involved in the political process. He was the stronger candidate and Trump would not have beaten him (even Hillary wouldn't have beaten him without a great deal of help from the DNC). When Bernie remakes the Democratic party in his image maybe we can finally win some elections and craft some good policy.

[NE.]

Democrats have been mocking/bullying the WWC for the past 8 years and they're confused why they didn't have their support

[LuLuDrops]

Originally posted by Lord Blackout

Didn't Ohio become overwhelmingly whiter since 2012?

That's what I heard and then no Golden Week and such strict rules on ballots Having your signature challenged could cause your vote to be thrown out or a single misprint on name/address could cancel your ballot All this was passed in 2013 so Obama really shook them

[lightstheyblindme]

Originally posted by LuLuDrops

Who's more salvageable, Ohio or Iowa?

I feel like Ohio with good job plans might check us out again while Iowa is just going to keep trending to the right even if it would've taken less votes to flip.

all you have to ask yourself is which has more high-population density urban centers. Ohio.

[LuLuDrops]

Originally posted by lightstheyblindme

all you have to ask yourself is which has more high-population density urban centers. Ohio.

That was before I came across the 10% third party tally in IA It would've been a 51-49 affair if all that went to Hillz compared to a Trump knockout in OH.

Ohio has such strict voting rules, though.

Anyway, both mess and mess. It'll take a lot to get them back.

[Lord Blackout]

Originally posted by Mike91

1. Primaries are not the same thing as general elections. Exit polls showed a majority of democratic primary voters wanted a continuation of Obama's policies, one of the very things that cost Hillary. This was a change election.

Exit polls also showed the voters overwhelmingly trusting her more with the economy while overwhelmingly trusting him with terrorism and immigration so this really wasn't the change election the media are hyping it up to be (Again, Obama's ratings are sky high now and the economy is in great shape)
It was simply a "Make America Great Again" for many of those WWC.