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Discussion: U.S. Election 2016
Member Since: 8/18/2013
Posts: 14,905
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also you guys can *attempt* to drag Bernie for his comment on identity politics all you want but he's right (and he's put in the hard hours fighting on behalf of POC in order to earn the right to speak on what would benefit them)
identity politics is the reason Hillary lost the election: instead of crafting an overarching message about why she would be good for all Americans she basically spoke separately to each individual minority group (black, LGBT, hispanic, disabled, etc...) telling them that progress was made for them under Obama and that she would continue that progress in her Presidency
this shows how clearly out of touch she was with the tone of this election: this was a "change" election and instead of offering up change she offered up more of the same. the same wage stagnation and the same de-industrialization. Instead of doing what her opponent was doing: identifying the problem at hand in America and offering a concrete solution Hillary denied that there were any problems and offered nothing of substance other than "I'm not Donald Trump." this identity politics-centered message instantly alienated anybody who was not a minority which explains why she lost every rural precinct by 30+ points
everybody knows hillary lost because of rural white voters but only Bernie has had the balls to identify her more-of-the-same, identity politics-heavy message as the cause of her actually losing those voters
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Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 28,137
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Quote:
Originally posted by Chemical X.
What the hell does this mean? 
To feel superior? To ensure their spot next to the most powerful group in America? To guarantee the financial success of their husbands thus their families? For their own economic benefit? Because they grew up in racist environments? Because they're hateful?
I could go on and on but white women are white people at the end of the day. It's always shocking to see how blind men can be to their behavior.
Wives of slave owners were often the ones punishing children, house slaves, black household workers hired during the Antebellum period, etc.
They even sexually assaulted black men and women just like their husbands
Some hated that their husbands (or men in general) would use black female slaves for their sexual needs and punished black women and girls as a result
They cheered and brought their families to lynchings
Oftentimes the only people white women could be above in terms of power were blacks
They wanted to keep their neighbors pristine and white when immigrants arrived
They weren't trying to do the harsh labor they forced young black children and pregnant women to do
They gladly took advantage of the labor and cultures of various PoC in this country even claiming certain habits of their own
Again, there are a million historical examples. Acting like white women weren't actively involved in the formation of racism and its execution in this country is a huge misstep. Even in this election the majority of white women chose their religion (pro-life) or race over the humanity of other women, people of color, the LGBTQ community, etc. yet en masse no one drags them for being privileged, or puts them in the same category as white men when it comes to bigotry
Funny how every minority group in this country has been thoroughly examined when it comes to their
voting patterns but them. Funny how pundits were shocked that the majority of them voted for Trump when the majority of white women consistently vote for the GOP every time  |
let me bump this for Sunshine  didn't write a long-ass response for nothing
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Member Since: 8/3/2012
Posts: 5,193
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How many people in here think that Donald Trump will start slavery back up? Because damn it, I hate mowing the lawn!
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Member Since: 9/16/2011
Posts: 50,981
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Quote:
Originally posted by DivaDown
How many people in here think that Donald Trump will start slavery back up? Because damn it, I hate mowing the lawn! |
I'm not sure what your intention was with this post, but reading it makes it sound like you are hoping to acquire a slave to do your lawnmowing. 
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Member Since: 1/6/2014
Posts: 19,122
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Quote:
Originally posted by Achilles.
I'm not sure what your intention was with this post, but reading it makes it sound like you are hoping to acquire a slave to do your lawnmowing. |
Aren't they a Trump supporter?
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Member Since: 8/3/2012
Posts: 5,193
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Quote:
Originally posted by Icarus
Aren't they a Trump supporter? |
Bernie Sanders supporter/Jill Stein supporter 
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Member Since: 8/18/2013
Posts: 14,905
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Quote:
Originally posted by Lord Blackout
Bernie could not sell Hillary to his supporters because they were not actual democrats just like him.
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if you actually think this is a bad thing then you're crazy. bringing new voters into the Demographic coalition is the only way to remain viable, especially when white working class voters - who were once the Democrats' bread and butter - are voting Republican
Quote:
Originally posted by Lord Blackout
Obama was never a socialist, no clue where you're getting that from. The most socialist thing he had was his universal healthcare plan which actually came from Hillary's platform. So once again you're dishonestly equating the two. He was only attacked once for socialism and it was McCain's doing long after the primary.
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again I'm not the one saying he's a socialist. my point is that during the 2008 primary these hardcore, 35+ Democrats were very skeptical of Obama's ability to win in the general election because his policies were so Progressive and the last time a Democrat ran on policies that were as progressive as Obama's they lost in a landslide. then, instead of realizing that a Progressive platform is viable in today's political climate they turned around and said the same thing about Bernie, not realizing that his policies were a lot more compatible with the anti-establishment, hungry-for-change tone of this election
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Member Since: 4/4/2014
Posts: 6,778
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Bernie can choke
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Member Since: 8/7/2015
Posts: 23,857
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Quote:
Originally posted by lightstheyblindme
also you guys can *attempt* to drag Bernie for his comment on identity politics all you want but he's right (and he's put in the hard hours fighting on behalf of POC in order to earn the right to speak on what would benefit them)
identity politics is the reason Hillary lost the election: instead of crafting an overarching message about why she would be good for all Americans she basically spoke separately to each individual minority group (black, LGBT, hispanic, disabled, etc...) telling them that progress was made for them under Obama and that she would continue that progress in her Presidency
this shows how clearly out of touch she was with the tone of this election: this was a "change" election and instead of offering up change she offered up more of the same. the same wage stagnation and the same de-industrialization. Instead of doing what her opponent was doing: identifying the problem at hand in America and offering a concrete solution Hillary denied that there were any problems and offered nothing of substance other than "I'm not Donald Trump." this identity politics-centered message instantly alienated anybody who was not a minority which explains why she lost every rural precinct by 30+ points
everybody knows hillary lost because of rural white voters but only Bernie has had the balls to identify her more-of-the-same, identity politics-heavy message as the cause of her actually losing those voters
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I'm sorry but this "identity politics" business is just refusal to acknowledge minorities and LGBT. As if you can even separate identity from politics anyway. All this fear of losing out on this WWC that never voted Dems as a group since the passage of the Civil Right Acts and will never come back to the Democratic party should not hold.
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Member Since: 9/16/2011
Posts: 50,981
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Donald, 2012: @realDonaldTrump: I have never seen a thin person drinking Diet Coke.
Donald, 2016: @mikiebarb: During NYT interview today, Trump drank a Diet Coke
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Member Since: 3/5/2011
Posts: 15,589
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Quote:
Originally posted by BlueTimberwolf
The fact that he still won't join the party is really pissing people off, plus his identity politics statement.
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Bernie coddles white working class folks too much, but he's not wrong about the Dems' identity politics biting them in the ass.
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Member Since: 8/19/2013
Posts: 28,773
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Quote:
Originally posted by lightstheyblindme
if you actually think this is a bad thing then you're crazy. bringing new voters into the Demographic coalition is the only way to remain viable, especially when white working class voters - who were once the Democrats' bread and butter - are voting Republican
again I'm not the one saying he's a socialist. my point is that during the 2008 primary these hardcore, 35+ Democrats were very skeptical of Obama's ability to win in the general election because his policies were so Progressive and the last time a Democrat ran on policies that were as progressive as Obama's they lost in a landslide. then, instead of realizing that a Progressive platform is viable in today's political climate they turned around and said the same thing about Bernie, not realizing that his policies were a lot more compatible with the anti-establishment, hungry-for-change tone of this election |
Except Bernie didn't bring in any new coalition. He brought himself a coalition and look how that worked out for the Dems. As you said, longtime Dems can just as easily vote republican and that's what Hillary prevented by campaigning for Obama. Bernie failed at that and if he runs in 2020 it'll snow in hell before I vote and that applies to many democrats.
And that's not true about Obama at all. You're just making **** up at this point. Those longtime democrats wanted Hillary who had planned to bring back Hillarycare and all (Now known as Obamacare). It wasn't a fear of progressive policies. It was simply which candidate they preferred. And Obama came in during a much different climate. There was the recession and the Iraq war at the time. It wasn't about progressives vs neoliberals or whatever crap the regressive left keeps on spewing. It was simply about getting us out of those two wars and that recession.
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Member Since: 5/21/2009
Posts: 11,151
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Quote:
Originally posted by Damien M
Bernie coddles white working class folks too much, but he's not wrong about the Dems' identity politics biting them in the ass.
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He may coddle them, but he included them and that's probably what would've gotten him the win.
Oh well.
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Member Since: 4/4/2014
Posts: 32,654
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We're still "what if'ing" Bernie in here?
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Member Since: 8/19/2013
Posts: 28,773
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Quote:
Originally posted by Damien M
Bernie coddles white working class folks too much, but he's not wrong about the Dems' identity politics biting them in the ass.
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Dems became spoiled with identity politics and many started seeing their votes as gifts to the candidates (lol). But the stance he's taking would cost us people of color and that's a terrible strategy. That's why I don't like Bernie. He's done nothing but divide the party so far. We don't need that.
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Member Since: 8/18/2013
Posts: 14,905
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dessy Fenix
I'm sorry but this "identity politics" business is just refusal to acknowledge minorities and LGBT. As if you can even separate identity from politics anyway. All this fear of losing out on this WWC that never voted Dems as a group since the passage of the Civil Right Acts and will never come back to the Democratic party should not hold.
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are you seriously trying to make the claim that Bernie Sanders fails to acknowledge minority and LGBT concerns? because he's been doing that since wayy before it was politically beneficial to do so
also his point wasn't "identity politics is trash" his point was that basing an entire campaign on identity politics is a cop-out and that you have to have a broader message that addresses the concerns of all voters in addition to the concerns of minority voters
Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton were polar opposites in this respect: Hillary only addressed the problems of each individual minority group (black lives matter, sexism, immigration) thinking that if she appealed to each group separately their collective votes would be enough to win her the election
Donald Trump didn't bother appealing to any minority group in any way, his message was 0% focus on identity politics and 100% focus on broad issues that affect US citizens universally (lack of infrastructure/poor standing abroad/wage stagnation). Yes all of his ideas to fix these problems were trash but people only cared that unlike Hillary he actually addressed these issues and mirrored their frustration about these long-ignored problems. this essentially proves Bernie's point that an overarching message ("Make America great again") that ties together all of your collective policy proposals is much more likely to resonate with the electorate than a bunch of small policy proposals that are only relevant to certain groups. It doesn't matter that Hillary was more competent and better suited for the job - Trump created a movement
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Member Since: 3/5/2011
Posts: 15,589
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Quote:
Originally posted by NE.
He may coddle them, but he included them and that's probably what would've gotten him the win.
Oh well.
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That's true.
but people in this thread STILL haven't learned their lesson, as they scour the (empty) Dem bench for any random woman from Cali to vote for. 
Two positives from this election though :
1) I (and many others) will never vote for a white woman again
2) The Clintons are over and it's time to flush them out of the Dem party (with all their baggage)
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Member Since: 8/7/2015
Posts: 23,857
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Quote:
Originally posted by lightstheyblindme
are you seriously trying to make the claim that Bernie Sanders fails to acknowledge minority and LGBT concerns? because he's been doing that since wayy before it was politically beneficial to do so
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I haven't claimed anything like this.
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also his point wasn't "identity politics is trash" his point was that basing an entire campaign on identity politics is a cop-out and that you have to have a broader message that addresses the concerns of all voters in addition to the concerns of minority voters
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I'm curious what boarder messages did Hillary not do while focusing on minorities?
Quote:
Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton were polar opposites in this respect: Hillary only addressed the problems of each individual minority group (black lives matter, sexism, immigration) thinking that if she appealed to each group separately their collective votes would be enough to win her the election.
Donald Trump didn't bother appealing to any minority group in any way, his message was 0% focus on identity politics and 100% focus on broad issues that affect US citizens universally (lack of infrastructure/poor standing abroad/wage stagnation). Yes all of his ideas to fix these problems were trash but people only cared that unlike Hillary he actually addressed these issues and mirrored their frustration about these long-ignored problems. this essentially proves Bernie's point that an overarching message ("Make America great again") that ties together all of your collective policy proposals is much more likely to resonate with the electorate than a bunch of small policy proposals that are only relevant to certain groups. It doesn't matter that Hillary was more competent and better suited for the job - Trump created a movement
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Trump made appeals to separate groups. We just gonna gloss over his whole black church and "inner cities" mess? That wasn't a board appeal, that was targeting the black community (miserably, at that). He promised to protect LGBT from Radical Islam. Trump ultimately played on "identity" when he talked about Mexican immigrants and Muslims. What is this rewriting of history? 
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Member Since: 8/18/2013
Posts: 14,905
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Quote:
Originally posted by Lord Blackout
Except Bernie didn't bring in any new coalition. He brought himself a coalition and look how that worked out for the Dems. As you said, longtime Dems can just as easily vote republican and that's what Hillary prevented by campaigning for Obama. Bernie failed at that and if he runs in 2020 it'll snow in hell before I vote and that applies to many democrats.
And that's not true about Obama at all. You're just making **** up at this point. Those longtime democrats wanted Hillary who had planned to bring back Hillarycare and all (Now known as Obamacare). It wasn't a fear of progressive policies. It was simply which candidate they preferred. And Obama came in during a much different climate. There was the recession and the Iraq war at the time. It wasn't about progressives vs neoliberals or whatever crap the regressive left keeps on spewing. It was simply about getting us out of those two wars and that recession.
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lmao this is literally like talking to a child. OF COURSE Bernie's supporters who were atypical Democrat voters didn't vote for Hillary - she stood for everything he was against! Hillary embodies corporate interests, disregard for the working class, "Wall Street over Main Street," and business-as-usual. it also makes COMPLETE sense that Bernie's coalition would rather vote for Trump because Bernie and Trump are much more similar than Bernie and Hillary - they had different policies but their policies were addressing the same issues whereas Hillary was largely ignoring those issues.
(also I'm not just making **** up, my public policy professor spent half an hour today discussing this. go read some articles covering the 2008 primary, especially those written right after the New Hampshire primary)
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Member Since: 8/29/2012
Posts: 22,883
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Quote:
Originally posted by Sunshine.
Nah. Bernie has always been himself and that's what's made him who he is.
Just because he ran for president and gained a large audience doesn't mean he has to hand that influence over the Democrats now... especially with the way they tried to undermine him... are ya'll okay?
Just be glad he had enough sense NOT to attack Hillary on her sorest spots. HE doesn't owe the Democratic party anything. lol
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I agree with that last part. It must have been sad for him losing the nomination and then having to throw his support at his opponent mostly because of whom she was running against (and would ultimately lose to.) There's always 2020 
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