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Discussion: When did Jennifer Lopez become a legend/icon?
Member Since: 3/2/2014
Posts: 2,262
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Quote:
Originally posted by Shaliydah88
The most common answer people have said over time is ROL bc it was when she got the respect she deserved/it was a big comeback. I don't see why that's a bad answer.  |
Because she was already a bona fide legend by the time she released The Immaculate Collection in 1990.
The late 80s and early 90s 1-2-3 punch of Like A Prayer - Vogue - Blond Ambition Tour put her on a whole other level and basically changed the pop game as we know it! Even during her so-called flop years (93-97) she was still massively influential and talked about and analyzed endlessly….
When Ray Of Light was released and became a critical and commercial success, it only served to cement her legend status to the point that even her biggest detractors couldn’t legitimately deny it!!
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Member Since: 3/2/2014
Posts: 2,262
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Quote:
Originally posted by dabunique
well for sumbody who did live durrin da hype
she became an Icon right after she performed on American Bandstand and quoted dat iconic phrase
she owned 84,85,86,87 and dats to say with heavy competition from Cyndi, Whitney, Janet
she took a year and came back a ****in legend
she dropped LAP and it was over
i still get chills remembering da first time i saw LAP, i knew i couldn't jus be a fan i had to dedicate my life to her
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Member Since: 8/17/2013
Posts: 9,619
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Icon: LAV
Legend: RoL, she proved absolutely everyone wrong about her being "over".
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Member Since: 8/1/2012
Posts: 8,763
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Quote:
Originally posted by Shaliydah88
The most common answer people have said over time is ROL bc it was when she got the respect she deserved/it was a big comeback. I don't see why that's a bad answer. |
She got the respect she deserved in 1989, when she released LaP, her most acclaimed album. RoL was not even a comeback (she had Take a Bow) it was just critics and GP embracing her again after she reinvented herself and put on a safer image after the highly controversial era when she shook the pop culture ground and released what is now in retrospective seen as her most important album - Erotica, which represents a huge shift / change of sound for her and is now seen by many critics as her artistic and creative peak.
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Member Since: 2/2/2012
Posts: 26,226
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Quote:
Originally posted by idkher
Stop, she was not considered a legend until ROL or Music at the earliest
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Lol she had her longest running #1 in 1995 with Take a Bow, by then all her female peers that started with her where done, she was clearly a legend by then, I would say the Blond Ambition Tour was the turning point.
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Member Since: 4/27/2012
Posts: 9,977
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Quote:
Originally posted by Shaliydah88
The most common answer people have said over time is ROL bc it was when she got the respect she deserved/it was a big comeback. I don't see why that's a bad answer. |
Sure. She wasn't slaying ww stadiums with the WTG tour cause no one respected her. LAP never got respect. Immaculate never got respect. Vogue never got respect. Blond Ambition never existed, etc. The logic
She was being acclaimed even during TB when they were calling her the Queen.
I don't think it's necessary to say EVERYTHING that M managed to reach 1983-1990 and made her a legend. Like, there never was a woman (before her) with such a tremendous impact and success revolutionizing pop music/culture in this way.
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Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 30,642
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Im going to switch up to the next person in a bit so write what you got to say about queen madonna 
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Member Since: 5/6/2010
Posts: 35,158
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Quote:
Originally posted by MadOnHer
Because she was already a bona fide legend by the time she released The Immaculate Collection in 1990.
The late 80s and early 90s 1-2-3 punch of Like A Prayer - Vogue - Blond Ambition Tour put her on a whole other level and basically changed the pop game as we know it! Even during her so-called flop years (93-97) she was still massively influential and talked about and analyzed endlessly….
When Ray Of Light was released and became a critical and commercial success, it only served to cement her legend status to the point that even her biggest detractors couldn’t legitimately deny it!!
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Then I would say that the bolded part was when she truly became a legend. Success doesn't determine whether or not someone is a legend, time does.
Quote:
Originally posted by Bríseis
She got the respect she deserved in 1989, when she released LaP, her most acclaimed album. RoL was not even a comeback (she had Take a Bow) it was just critics and GP embracing her again after she reinvented herself and put on a safer image after the highly controversial era when she shook the pop culture ground and released what is now in retrospective seen as her most important album - Erotica, which represents a huge shift / change of sound for her and is now seen by many critics as her artistic and creative peak.
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She may have finally been looked at as an artist, but I still think people didnt show her the respect she deserved. She still caught a lot of flack during that era for the LAP video. Also for the scene in the Express Yourself video where she's chained to the bed. I feel as though people were still discrediting her, even after the amazing success she had in the 80s. Erotica/Sex book caused her critics to say her career was over. Like you said, it wasn't respected until years later (after her comebacks). I mean, she was a lot safer in the BS era than she was in the Erotica era, yet she wasnt being called a legend yet. Take A Bow was successful, but it wasn't as iconic or remembered as songs like Holiday, LAV, LAP, Express Yourself, Vogue, etc. And considering the fact that Ray of Light outsold both Erotica and Bedtime Stories (combined, if I'm not mistaken), then I'd say it was definitely a comeback. I still feel that Ray of Light is what made people deem her a legend.
Quote:
Originally posted by Travis Bickle
Sure. She wasn't slaying ww stadiums with the WTG tour cause no one respected her. LAP never got respect. Immaculate never got respect. Vogue never got respect. Blond Ambition never existed, etc. The logic
She was being acclaimed even during TB when they were calling her the Queen.
I don't think it's necessary to say EVERYTHING that M managed to reach 1983-1990 and made her a legend. Like, there never was a woman (before her) with such a tremendous impact and success revolutionizing pop music/culture in this way. |
 I never said the things she did weren't respected. I SAID that it wasn't until the ROL era that she got the respect she deserved. People were quick to discredit her and give her **** for thing she did.
And again, success alone, no matter how astronomical, doesn't make someone a legend. Time does. You can look at everything she accomplished in hindsight and say, "WOWZA! What a LEGEND!", but while it was happening it could have been a completely different story. IMO, the fact that she was able to make a comeback 15 years into her career and prove that she wasn't going anywhere anytime soon, still get large amounts of acclaim, still top charts, still reinvent herself, still outdo her peers, etc. is what made her a legend.
That's just my two cents. 
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Member Since: 3/2/2014
Posts: 2,262
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Quote:
Originally posted by Shaliydah88
Then I would say that the bolded part was when she truly became a legend. Success doesn't determine whether or not someone is a legend, time does.
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I certainly agree that time and particularly longevity is an important factor needed in determining who/what is regarded as legendary....
However I also think it has a lot to do with what is actually achieved in that time! As I said in the post that you quoted, by the end of 1990, Madonna had completely changed the way the game was played. Not only had she finally attained critical recognition with her Like A Prayer album and sparked a genuine international craze with Vogueing, but she had also revolutionized the concert format with the Blond Ambition Tour!!!
So she had it all: Critical acclaim. Commercial impact. Artistic influence.
All of this occurred 7-8 years into an already amazingly accomplished career, where she had already been considered an icon or a role model for about 6 of those years!
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Member Since: 8/1/2012
Posts: 8,763
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Quote:
Originally posted by Shaliydah88
She may have finally been looked at as an artist, but I still think people didnt show her the respect she deserved. She still caught a lot of flack during that era for the LAP video. Also for the scene in the Express Yourself video where she's chained to the bed. I feel as though people were still discrediting her, even after the amazing success she had in the 80s. Erotica/Sex book caused her critics to say her career was over. Like you said, it wasn't respected until years later (after her comebacks). I mean, she was a lot safer in the BS era than she was in the Erotica era, yet she wasnt being called a legend yet. Take A Bow was successful, but it wasn't as iconic or remembered as songs like Holiday, LAV, LAP, Express Yourself, Vogue, etc. And considering the fact that Ray of Light outsold both Erotica and Bedtime Stories (combined, if I'm not mistaken), then I'd say it was definitely a comeback. I still feel that Ray of Light is what made people deem her a legend.
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Lol, as if Madonna doesnt get a lot of flak even now 
People are still discrediting her and dont show her the respect she deserves, just as they did with MJ untill his death. That doesnt have anything to do with being or not being a legend.
Almost everything M does is controversial. She is daring and thats why she gets a lot of flak and negativity. RoL hasnt stopped or changed that in any way, it was only an era when she just reinvented the way she was seen as aproppriate. Just like for example Stanley Kubrick. He never won an Academy Award in major category, because his films were too challenging and too controversial. He got a lot of flak for his work, for the way he behaved or lived. But that doesnt mean he is not regarded as one of the greatest filmmakers of all time, who just never made a movie that the Academy Awards committee would feel comfortable enough with to award with an Oscar in major category.
The same with Madonna. She was always challenging. Yes, BS was safer than Erotica, but on the other hand, Erotica was the extreme. BS still showed her wearing underwear and behave in a very sexual way (Human Nature anybody? Even Secret and Take a Bow were criticized for being overly sexual lol), she still kept the IDGAF attitude and that made a lot of people uncomfortable. What restored her image was mostly Evita and her reinvention to the Mother Earth during RoL, which was the safest image she ever took, while still being musically experimental. But the safe image worked with the GP and made it possible for her to be universally embraced, thats why for example she won most of her 7 Grammies around that era (out of 28 nominations!!!) but still none in a major category. But she reinvented again and got flak again during Music vid release, then for AL etc. It was just that one era when she got the image "right" and allowed the critics to embrace her without feeling uncomfortable about her controversies, but still not comfortable enough with her past scandals. But that doesnt mean she wasnt regarded as a legend before.
As someone who was only a small child but remembers her from time before RoL was released, I can confirm that she was definitely seen as a legend before RoL dropped. I didnt get into her until 2005 tho.
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Member Since: 1/5/2014
Posts: 5,399
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She became a legend once the 80's ended because she (and mj) represented the entire decade and that's not even up for debate. If you are the icon of a decade then you're a legend by default. She didn't even need ROL or COADF to cement her status
She was on my textbook described as the symbol of 80's pop culture and that was like 1996
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Member Since: 3/21/2012
Posts: 55,134
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She became an icon during Like A Virgin ...
Legend by the end of the 90's
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Member Since: 3/14/2012
Posts: 7,958
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Once again, trust me, she was a legend way before ROL
Video Vanguard in her first 5 years
7 number one hits in 5 1/2 years
4 top 10 albums including 3 consecutive number one albums
17 consecutive Top 10 hits from 1984-1989
2 successful tours
Chile none of da current legendary children in waiting have amassed this much in a short time
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Member Since: 4/4/2014
Posts: 6,778
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Quote:
Originally posted by Swag
Lol she had her longest running #1 in 1995 with Take a Bow, by then all her female peers that started with her where done, she was clearly a legend by then, I would say the Blond Ambition Tour was the turning point.
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TAB was big but the album flopped. For the thousandth time no one is considered a "legend" by the gp during their first 10 years because they are still so current. It wasn't until the end of the 90s that she had successfully managed to slay two decades and still chart among new acts like Britney. ROL/Music were turning points for her public perception
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Member Since: 8/1/2012
Posts: 8,763
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Quote:
Originally posted by idkher
TAB was big but the album flopped. For the thousandth time no one is considered a "legend" by the gp during their first 10 years because they are still so current. It wasn't until the end of the 90s that she had successfully managed to slay two decades and still chart among new acts like Britney. ROL/Music were turning points for her public perception
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Many of the biggest music legends didnt even last as long as 10 years lol
Being a legend is about lasting impact, influence on music and/or pop culture, legacy and the mark you left behind, regardless of the time the artist needed to do it. Someone is not able to do it in 40 years in the industry, someone is able to change the industry forever with just one album that makes him a legend.
Its only that nothing but time can truly reveal the ammount of influence the artist left behind and the importance and impact of his work(s) on future generations. But the longevity of his career has absolutely nothing to do with being a legend, its one if the stupidest arguments tbh.
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Member Since: 4/4/2014
Posts: 6,778
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Quote:
Originally posted by Bríseis
Many of the biggest music legends didnt even last as long as 10 years lol
Being a legend is about impact, lasting influence on music, legacy and the mark you left behind, regardless of the time the artist needed to do it. Someone needs to release 20 albums, someone is able to change the industry with just one album that makes him a legend. |
Mess why can no Madonna fans read. I didn't say anything about career length and I didn't say that her early material isn't legendary. Even if she just released her first two albums and retired I'm sure she'd still be considered a legend now, but it would have taken years for people to see her as one
I'm saying the public at large didn't consider Madonna a music legend until the late 90s at the earliest. You said it yourself, it's about lasting influence and the mark you leave behind. That takes time (especially for people who don't follow pop music) to see, which is why people aren't considered legends until long after their peaks
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Member Since: 8/1/2012
Posts: 8,763
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Quote:
Originally posted by idkher
Mess why can no Madonna fans read. I didn't say anything about career length and I didn't say that her early material isn't legendary. Even if she just released her first two albums and retired I'm sure she'd still be considered a legend now, but it would have taken years for people to see her as one
I'm saying the public at large didn't consider Madonna a music legend until the late 90s at the earliest. You said it yourself, it's about lasting influence and the mark you leave behind. That takes time (especially for people who don't follow pop music) to see, which is why people aren't considered legends until long after their peaks
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Well then I partly agree with you.
But even if she wouldnt have been successful in her second decade, charting among new pop stars as you mentioned in your post and even if RoL flopped, it wouldnt have changed anything because even her "flop" albums made impact. Thats why I thought you are another ATRLer bragging about success and longevity BS after reading your post.
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Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 14,321
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The two who said she's an icon, but not a legend
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Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 3,755
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Icon: LAV VMa performance (1984)
Legend: Blond Ambition (1990)
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Member Since: 8/19/2013
Posts: 32,982
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Icon: VMA "Like a Virgin" performance
Legend: November 9th, 1990 (Immaculate Collection). Bitch sold like The Eagles / The Beatles / Led Zeppelin based off of her legacy.
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