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Discussion: U.S. Election 2016
Member Since: 3/18/2008
Posts: 40,057
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jackson
They're just reacting to Democratic issues. Basically the Dems support something and they come out against it. Not that they're trying to be obstructionists outright, they're just worried Democrats are ruining their "traditional" values. Obviously there will always be homophobes like there will always be racists but eventually trying to devoid the LGBT of rights won't always be a focus of the GOP platform.
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But the thing is that their base dictates these issues, it's not just Reps going against Dems policies. GOP voters oppose gay rights because they think gay people are sinners, are that marriage is between a man and woman, as that's something they REALLY care about. As long as they have this conservative religious value, their mindset will not change.
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Member Since: 9/10/2011
Posts: 20,982
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Quote:
Originally posted by Gui Blackout
How it's not true? Have not seen on what platform they're running this campaign? And how their voters think?
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It's just a right-wing platform (that got them a majority of Governor seats, a majority in the House, a majority in the Senate, and a majority in local legislative seats) - just as the Democratic platform is a left-wing platform.
The two parties' policies will continue to shift in different ways and the issues they debate will change as well. The fact that Donald held an LGBT flag (he's no friend of the LGBT community, don't get me wrong) would have been a major impropriety for a Republican candidate in 2000, 2008, perhaps even 2008.
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Member Since: 5/27/2016
Posts: 1,311
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It's kinda nice if you look at the things on the surface that it appears close, and the media are running with the narrative that it is close.
It's giving the Trump supporters so much false hope. They're going to be DESTROYED.
It'll be fabulous.
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Member Since: 5/27/2016
Posts: 2,555
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jackson
I wish everyone would just move closer to the center again. Obviously the alt reich is disgusting but progressives get on my nerves too
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Positions like these literally make no sense.
You owe much of America's progress literally to progressives.
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Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 37,384
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Quote:
Originally posted by Gui Blackout
But the thing is that their base dictates these issues, it's not just Reps going against Dems policies. GOP voters oppose gay rights because they think gay people are sinners, are that marriage is between a man and woman, as that's something they REALLY care about. As long as they have this conservative religious value, their mindset will not change.
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Coming from a pretty conservative background, this is true of older conservatives. Some of the younger conservatives oppose gay marriage as well but they don't consider them "sinners" and "heathens" like their older counterparts. This older voter base is LITERALLY dying off- they're dying at a faster rate than younger Americans are joining their set of beliefs. As the older Republicans die off and younger ones take over the party the needs of the party will change. I think younger GOP members definitely still value 2nd amendment rights, religious freedom, and more traditional values, but other issues such as gay rights aren't as big of an issue to them.
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Member Since: 3/18/2011
Posts: 8,234
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jacketh
It's kinda nice if you look at the things on the surface that it appears close, and the media are running with the narrative that it is close.
It's giving the Trump supporters so much false hope. They're going to be DESTROYED.
It'll be fabulous.
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Are you basing this on early voting? I'm skeptical that it's going to be a landslide. Both will get at least 40% of pop vote. I think there is going to be a huge turnout after it's said and done. My county is WA state is over 50% turnout as of Friday. I think my county specifically will be over 80% turnout by Tuesday.
I still stand by my earlier comments that Clinton wins but by 20 or less EV.
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Member Since: 3/18/2008
Posts: 40,057
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Quote:
Originally posted by Rob_Matteo
It's just a right-wing platform (that got them a majority of Governor seats, a majority in the House, a majority in the Senate, and a majority in local legislative seats) - just as the Democratic platform is a left-wing platform.
The two parties' policies will continue to shift in different ways and the issues they debate will change as well. The fact that Donald held an LGBT flag (he's no friend of the LGBT community, don't get me wrong) would have been a major impropriety for a Republican candidate in 2000, 2008, perhaps even 2008.
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Sure, let's pretend that they have eased up on their hate against the LGBT community. But they balanced that with the unprecedented and shocking growing racism that took control of their base. They are voting on a premise for the 1950s and on white supremacy.
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Member Since: 9/10/2011
Posts: 20,982
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Nobody owes anyone anything.
You can disagree and feel annoyed by any particular group of people/movement and yes, it does "make sense".
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Member Since: 8/18/2013
Posts: 2,533
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Quote:
Originally posted by Rob_Matteo
Not really. Young people shift to the right gradually as they grow older.
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It's not necessarily that young people shift right, but policy ideas. As society progresses what's considered Liberal now will probably be considered moderately conservative 40 years later
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Member Since: 5/27/2016
Posts: 1,311
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Quote:
Originally posted by Ra2
Are you basing this on early voting? I'm skeptical that it's going to be a landslide. Both will get at least 40% of pop vote. I think there is going to be a huge turnout after it's said and done. My county is WA state is over 50% turnout as of Friday. I think my county specifically will be over 80% turnout by Tuesday.
I still stand by my earlier comments that Clinton wins but by 20 or less EV.
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I agree it could be close, but lets be honest, Trump supporters aren't really going to take much satisfaction from that and shrug their shoulders at the thought of Hillary Clinton becoming president. They adore him, and absolutely detest her.
There will be meltdowns. And lots of them.
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Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 37,384
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Quote:
Originally posted by Communion
Positions like these literally make no sense.
You owe much of America's progress literally to progressives.
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I've always been 100% socially liberal. Gay rights, womens rights, BLM, etc. But progressives are too idealistic for a skeptic like me. They believe things that in theory are amazing (free college, free healthcare, etc) but in reality aren't as straightforward and easy to implement as many, especially young millennials, think they are (yeah, I realize Canada and Europe have a lot of these things but they're much harder to implement on a 300M+ sized scale). Plus I align more with conservatives when it comes to the economy. Progressivism goes a lot farther than just social issues.
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Member Since: 12/27/2011
Posts: 20,704
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Being conservative is about CONSERVING a tradtional mindset. Progressives are not going to switch to a party focused on maintaining an older view just because they age.
The Republican party will die out. I predict a third party will eventually replace them. Instead of being Reps vs Dems, the future will be uber liberalism vs moderate liberalism.
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Member Since: 3/18/2008
Posts: 40,057
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jackson
Coming from a pretty conservative background, this is true of older conservatives. Some of the younger conservatives oppose gay marriage as well but they don't consider them "sinners" and "heathens" like their older counterparts. This older voter base is LITERALLY dying off- they're dying at a faster rate than younger Americans are joining their set of beliefs. As the older Republicans die off and younger ones take over the party the needs of the party will change. I think younger GOP members definitely still value 2nd amendment rights, religious freedom, and more traditional values, but other issues such as gay rights aren't as big of an issue to them.
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Well we can only hope that this will be the case, but I don't have much faith on it. I think conservatism, especially religious conservatism, in the US is a never dying entity
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Member Since: 9/10/2011
Posts: 20,982
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Quote:
Originally posted by Gui Blackout
Sure, let's pretend that they have eased up on their hate against the LGBT community. But they balanced that with the unprecedented and shocking growing racism that took control of their base. They are voting on a premise for the 1950s and on white supremacy.
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Most Republicans aren't racist, but it's true that playing coy with racially biased words/policies has been a factor in the success of a particular wing of the Republican party. We don't know for sure how the atmosphere there really is until we see who they elect in next cycles (not just for the presidential race, either).
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Member Since: 3/18/2011
Posts: 8,234
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Quote:
Originally posted by Gui Blackout
Sure, let's pretend that they have eased up on their hate against the LGBT community. But they balanced that with the unprecedented and shocking growing racism that took control of their base. They are voting on a premise for the 1950s and on white supremacy.
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Meh. White people will not be a "majority" for much longer anyway. That problem will likely correct itself with time. Besides, I don't think many millennials have racist tendencies. I suspect over time we will all have a beige or darker skin tone and hopefully everyone can start seeing people as human beings first. It's a ridiculous notion and I don't understand why people see skin color as important.
Again, I may be totally wrong. I'm a white male and therefore have not had experiences that others have had. I don't necessarily have a right to talk about things that I don't truly understand as my POV is biased.
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Member Since: 3/18/2011
Posts: 8,234
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jacketh
I agree it could be close, but lets be honest, Trump supporters aren't really going to take much satisfaction from that and shrug their shoulders at the thought of Hillary Clinton becoming president. They adore him, and absolutely detest her.
There will be meltdowns. And lots of them.
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I've grown to detest both and as a result I'm a wee bit cynical right now about it. I'm just hoping we get a better set of candidates next cycle.
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Member Since: 9/10/2011
Posts: 20,982
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Quote:
Originally posted by Aden
Being conservative is about CONSERVING a tradtional mindset. Progressives are not going to switch to a party focused on maintaining an older view just because they age.
The Republican party will die out. I predict a third party will eventually replace them. Instead of being Reps vs Dems, the future will be uber liberalism vs moderate liberalism.
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The Republican party is FAR from dying out. If anything, Democrats should be concerned about their current position, Republicans have a majority of Governorships, a majority in the House, a majority in the Senate, and a majority in the local legislative system. Let's hope Democrats can regain the senate soon.
If the general public indeed becomes "uber liberalism vs moderate liberalism" (which it likely won't), then the Republican party would be the one representing moderate liberalism. Guys, the Republican party is going to elect people FROM the public and adapt a platform that represents a portion of the public.
People said that the Democratic party would die out because of their former policies on slavery and civil rights. Well?
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Member Since: 5/27/2016
Posts: 1,311
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jackson
I've always been 100% socially liberal. Gay rights, womens rights, BLM, etc. But progressives are too idealistic for a skeptic like me. They believe things that in theory are amazing (free college, free healthcare, etc) but in reality aren't as straightforward and easy to implement as many, especially young millennials, think they are (yeah, I realize Canada and Europe have a lot of these things but they're much harder to implement on a 300M+ sized scale). Plus I align more with conservatives when it comes to the economy. Progressivism goes a lot farther than just social issues.
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Its interesting that you align with conservatives more on the economy. Do you realise that the 2008 crash was down to, largely, the conservative ideology of Reaganomics (and, effectively, no regulation of financial services and banks) - it gave a free pass for the banks and Wall Street to do whatever the damn hell they like. Bill Clinton is is responsible as well. He carried through Reaganomics.
It is the same over here in the UK. Thatcher (with Reagan) deregulated everything. Thatcher's Chancellor at the time even admits that "that an unintended consequence of the Big Bang was the financial crisis of 2007-2008."
And I'd argue that the financial crash of 2007/2008 is the reason why you have populist figures all over the West gaining traction on the right (Farage, Trump, La Penn) and on the left (Corbyn, Podemos, Sanders)... because ordinary people have had to pay for that crash, which they were not responsible for. The centre ground isn't offering any answers to why that happened, why it won't happen again. It isn't providing any answers to Syria, or immigration...
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Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 37,384
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Quote:
Originally posted by Gui Blackout
Well we can only hope that this will be the case, but I don't have much faith on it. I think conservatism, especially religious conservatism, in the US is a never dying entity
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By 2050 forecasts say the US won't even be majority white anymore. Plus, Americans are becoming more and more irreligious as time goes on. I think both of those factors will contribute to the downfall of the GOP. Religious conservatism will become a fringe extremist group and the rest of us can move on with life as a more moderate conservatism/centrism develops
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Member Since: 12/21/2010
Posts: 51,088
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Is it just me or is media attention today shifting back away from Hillary's email towards Dump being a ****ing idiot?
Maybe they saw SNL.
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