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Discussion: Beyonce: same level as Madonna, Mariah, Whitney, Janet?
Member Since: 5/27/2016
Posts: 2,717
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Member Since: 9/1/2013
Posts: 27,364
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She isn't. 
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Member Since: 1/7/2012
Posts: 860
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She's trumped Celine for sure.
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Member Since: 3/27/2012
Posts: 18,963
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Quote:
Originally posted by IMPACTNET.
Beyoncé not doing interviews or releasing singles consistently does not put her above those that came before her. I agree that Beyoncé has taken the foundation laid before her, and blazed her own trail from it. But what you're not mentioning is that the same thing Beyoncé did, Whitney, Janet, Mariah and Madonna did the same before her. All 4 did things that wasn't being done before them.
Whitney is by far the greatest female singer of the last 40 years as well as the most successful and impactful black female artist of the last 40 years. Her fusion of pop music with gospel roots made her the standard for singers following after her. Her presence on MTV as a black female also paved the way for other singers such as Janet to receive heavy rotation. Her performance of the SSB at the Superbowl is one of the most iconic moments in music history. It not only served as a template for future NA performers to follow, it presented Whitney as a symbol of hope and patriotism. A honor that had not been bestowed upon a black female singer in such a way before her. She became a national treasure in 1991. She was of the 80's and 90's what Aretha was of the 60's and 70's. A true diva. No female artist was as successful as Whitney in terms of being an actress, an artist and live performer simultaneously. She was not the first, but no one was as commercially successful in all arenas as she was. Also, no black female had as much crossover success as she did. She broke that barrier for people like Janet, Mariah and eventually Beyoncé to have crossover success.
Mariah was an anomaly in that she achieved as many #1's as a female solo artist as she did and they were all solely written by her. No other female artist has that to their credit. Also, her collaborating with a rapper as a big-voiced diva was also impactful. Again, she wasn't the first to do that, but she had the most impact with it. And that in turn, paved the way for other artists to do the same.
Before Janet, there was no female artist who danced like her, nor did the videos she did. You can't find me one female artist who did anything like What Have You Done For Me Lately or any artist period who did anything like Nasty. She single-handedly revolutionized the music video medium. That was something artists before didn't do, nor had the opportunity to do. She used the MTV platform to mark her path. Also, like Madonna, the way she presented sex was still a taboo in the early 90's and was not as overt as they did. There's a reason why her Rolling Stone cover is the most replicated cover in pop culture. No one had ever done anything like that prior. And that's not to say she was the first to sell sex, but because of the path laid before by people like Josephine Baker, Donna Summer and Diana Ross, that enabled her not only present sexuality into her work, but take it further and make it inoactful.
Madonna shifted the paradigm completely, and redefined the pop star mold. She was a pioneer of infusing taboo topics and societal issues into her work and making it art. She's gone further than probably any artist before her in discussing sex when she did her Sex Book. Because she went as far as she did with that book, it made selling sex more of a norm, and less shocking, thus making her the standard in that respect. Probably her biggest contribution has been as a live performer. Her stage shows, split into sections, told stories and the moving parts within them made creating thematic shows a THING.
Celine sang My Heart Will Go On and the song won an Oscar.
And much like Beyonce, they all inked historic record deals that artists before them had not. And Madonna, Janet and Whitney all did tours that artists before them did not and were not able to do. The fact that they were able to do arenas and stadiums was one thing most artists couldn't due to the number of arenas and stadiums being significantly lower in in the 60's and 70's. Which is why you saw so many huge artists back then doing theaters and amphitheater residences.
None of this is to discredit Beyoncé, but you can't say she isn't relying on the musical structure and those before her did, when they were the ones who changed the industry, making it possible for artists like Beyoncé to do what she's doing.
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I think you misunderstood my post. I didn't say she was above them for this, but that she differs from them. If she were to be the same, she wouldn't be on their level because she's not also pushing things forward as they have. I know all this about these divas, they deserve every ounce of credit they deserve.
HOWEVER, these people were heavily managed by other people for the heydey of their careers: men ... Clive Davis, Tommy Mottola, Guy Oseary, René Angelil, ... etc. And yes, so was Beyoncé with her Matthew Knowles. And we could argue that her popularity on charts was stronger with Matthew, but it's clear she is the biggest star and artist she's EVER been without him. While aforementioned girls have also done their own thing too, they still stuck to the template of pop music business that was set before them and it hardly created something to rival their previous immense. This has nothing to do with not doing interviews, that's not the revolutionary thing Beyoncé is doing. What she's doing is existing in pop music (her name has been one of the biggest in 2016 pop) and yet being almost completely away from it.
I think all the girls here for paving the way for Beyoncé as a woman and a woman of colour to be so successful, but let's not discredit what Beyoncé is doing here in the now. Just as these ladies laid the groundwork for Beyoncé, Beyoncé is laying groundwork for people to follow her.
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Member Since: 3/27/2012
Posts: 18,963
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Quote:
Originally posted by C.Damen
People knew who DC was?
Did you ask people in 1997? |
Ask the charts.
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Member Since: 3/27/2012
Posts: 18,963
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Quote:
Originally posted by St. Charles
She's arguably on the same level as Janet. But Janet had SOOOOO MANY HITS. Bey can't compare in that sense, I don't think.
Plus, Janet had her last #1 like (86 -> '01?) about 15 yrs into her career? Beyonce hasn't done that ( I don't think? )
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I don't mean to make excuses, but this isn't really an excuse it's more of a "lights on or lights off, the room is still the same room" situation...
If Formation were only released for sale and the video set to "listed" (I don't believe it even would have had to be released to radio), it would have been #1 in the week of it's debut.
If you want any other proof, look how after 3 months of being given away for free, it debuted in the top ten of the Hot 100.
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Member Since: 4/25/2011
Posts: 41,661
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Member Since: 3/5/2014
Posts: 3,579
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No sure she has acclaim and Grammys etc but on a whole global scale she's no were near them as a legendary act and she's most certainly not seen as one outside the US she's a huge touring act but musically WW she's just your average American pop girl
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Member Since: 8/19/2013
Posts: 4,793
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I'd say she is already on par with Janet.
I can see her reaching Celine's level but she is definitely not on the same level as the other three.
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Member Since: 4/6/2014
Posts: 3,145
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No.
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Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 9,929
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Quote:
Originally posted by DanceAgain
No sure she has acclaim and Grammys etc but on a whole global scale she's no were near them as a legendary act and she's most certainly not seen as one outside the US she's a huge touring act but musically WW she's just your average American pop girl
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This. She is hyped right now, and the young stans on ATRL haven't seen the peaks of Madonna, Mariah, Whitney, etc.
Beyonce is a talented acclaimed singer and powerful pop star with great album sales in the US, and not so much world wide and with no WW hits 
She will be a legend however
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Member Since: 5/27/2016
Posts: 2,527
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gorl... no
maybe with the next 2 albums she might get the title
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Member Since: 4/3/2014
Posts: 4,801
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Nope, sorry but maybe Janet I guess.
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Member Since: 12/22/2011
Posts: 55,626
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dragonfury
Is Beyonce on the same level as Madonna, Mariah, Whitney, Janet and Celine?
These five women, the Big 5, are among the most successful, best selling, most influential, iconic and legendary female musicians of all time.
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Nobody outside of stans would ever disrespect Madonna, mariah, whitney or Janet or celine even to suggest that Beyonce is an equivalent.
Now she's definitely a front runner for her generation (not in terms of sales and hits of course but as the ultimate performer).
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Member Since: 5/27/2016
Posts: 985
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Member Since: 3/27/2012
Posts: 18,963
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Quote:
Originally posted by DanceAgain
No sure she has acclaim and Grammys etc but on a whole global scale she's no were near them as a legendary act and she's most certainly not seen as one outside the US she's a huge touring act but musically WW she's just your average American pop girl
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Who else would you say is an "average American pop girl"?
Do they tour like Beyoncé does WW?
How does an "average American pop girl" get such above average tour stats?
Could it be she is not an "average American pop girl"?
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Member Since: 1/6/2014
Posts: 19,122
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Touring receipts kinda overshadow all these other factors, she's bigger
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Member Since: 8/6/2012
Posts: 22,977
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None of these are on Madonna's, she's the highest selling female ever (2nd being Rihanna).
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Member Since: 3/27/2012
Posts: 18,963
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Quote:
Originally posted by Blue Jeans
This. She is hyped right now, and the young stans on ATRL haven't seen the peaks of Madonna, Mariah, Whitney, etc.
Beyonce is a talented acclaimed singer and powerful pop star with great album sales in the US, and not so much world wide and with no WW hits
She will be a legend however |
This is like saying that that Whitney, Janet, Mariah, Madonna, and Celine are not on the level of Bing Crosby because no one here was around in Bing's peak to see his:
- 40 #1 hits
- MASSIVE amount of top tens
- Number one albums
- Oscar (plus two other nominations)
- 4 of his songs won Academy Awards for Best Song (10 other nominations)
- Many successful films
- Being the #1 Box Office Star five years in a row (top ten in different 15 years)
- Singing one of the most iconic songs of all time, still used today
- A span of 50 years between his first and last charting singles
- Inspiring TONS of artists
- and more!
It was a different time, and most today would say they are bigger than Bing. Comparatively, they might not be on the same level, but for their respective times, they have reached the same heights and so are on the same level.
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Member Since: 8/29/2009
Posts: 3,772
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Quote:
Originally posted by NX127
None of these are on Madonna's, she's the highest selling female ever (2nd being Rihanna).
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"selling" doesn't fit to describe Rihanna's career... you have to either put the prefix "out" before the word, or simply change the verb. The verb "selling" fits Madge, but doesn't fit Rihanna. Streams are not sales.
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