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Discussion: U.S. Election 2016
Member Since: 5/21/2009
Posts: 11,151
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Quote:
Originally posted by Lord Blackout
Yeah Obama needs to calm down with the pompous attitude. A big part of why she lost is because she was seen as his third term and that's because she never once threw him under the bus while on the campaign trail. He has the right to be disappointed but don't take it out on Hil when her coalition came out for you in 2008 when they evidently didn't have to and your coalition deserted her in 2016 and went for Bernie/Trump.
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What reason would Hillary have had to throw the person under the bus who pretty much mobilized what was left of her dry ass base and dragged her campaign to the finish line? 
His coalition probably never embraced her because it was always pretty clear the Clintons had a strong resentment for Obama. Her ungrateful shady ass was lucky that she was running against the person who openly supported the birther movement so he was out to defend his own legacy, otherwise he probably would've left her to the dogs anyways.
I think one of the Colin Powell leaks implied that Obama didn't really give a damn if Hillary lost 
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Member Since: 5/27/2016
Posts: 2,324
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Obama is not lying though. Basically anyone who was not under FBI investigation would have beaten Trump. Hillary just had to keep sabotaging herself and putting her foot in it.
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Member Since: 9/3/2011
Posts: 22,014
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Donald J. Trump @realDonaldTrump 1h1 hour ago
The world was gloomy before I won - there was no hope. Now the market is up nearly 10% and Christmas spending is over a trillion dollars!
He's going full Kim Jong-un on the deplorables 
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Member Since: 8/18/2013
Posts: 14,905
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Quote:
Originally posted by lilostolemycoke
I hate men. And not when one of her main criticisms is that she aligned herself to Obama's policies too much.
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oh so now Hillary lost because she packaged herself as the next Obama? 
you guys really will do anything to avoid admitting that Hillary lost because she was seen as corrupt - and the reason she was seen as corrupt was because she is, in fact, corrupt
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Member Since: 9/17/2011
Posts: 9,051
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Quote:
Originally posted by lilostolemycoke
I hate men. And not when one of her main criticisms is that she aligned herself to Obama's policies too much.
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No the main reason she lost was because people didn't 'like' her. Most of it was unwarranted and reeked of mysogynie.
FYI Obama has said on more than one occasion, during the campaign, that he believes he could win a third term so this has nothing to do with Hillary not winning.
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Member Since: 5/21/2009
Posts: 11,151
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Quote:
Originally posted by lightstheyblindme
oh so now Hillary lost because she packaged herself as the next Obama?
you guys really will do anything to avoid admitting that Hillary lost because she was seen as corrupt - and the reason she was seen as corrupt was because she is, in fact, corrupt
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And this thread will keep discussing this over and over until they accept this. 
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Member Since: 8/19/2013
Posts: 28,773
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Quote:
Originally posted by NE.
What reason would Hillary have had to throw the person under the bus who pretty much mobilized what was left of her dry ass base and dragged her campaign to the finish line?
His coalition probably never embraced her because it was always pretty clear the Clintons had a strong resentment for Obama. Her ungrateful shady ass was lucky that she was running against the person who openly supported the birther movement so he was out to defend his own legacy, otherwise he probably would've left her to the dogs anyways.
I think one of the Colin Powell leaks implied that Obama didn't really give a damn if Hillary lost |
In order to be seen as a change candidate? Aren't you always ranting here about how it's a change election? She could have thrown him under the bus for the decision to not negotiate a military placement in Iraq before 2011 which led to the rise of ISIS. She could have thrown him under the bus for the decision to not get the troops involved in Libya. She could have thrown him under the bus for Obamacare. There's plenty of things she could have done to avoid being seen as Obama's second term.
His coalition went to the two anti-Obama candidates instead of the pro-Obama candidate so I'm not sure what the point of that paragraph is. He was campaigning for her because she once campaigned for him even harder and held fundraisers for him etc. You're acting as if he was doing her a blind favor when his legacy (Obamacare) was on the line as well.
Lemme not even get into the shenanigans of the DNC during the 2008 primary (something Bernie bros such as your ass seem to forget despite being supposedly against corruption) and that was an actually close primary unlike this one where Bernie got totally embarrassed. And she never repeatedly yelled "rigged" and whined like your precious Bernie. I supported Obama over Hillary back then and now I support the only one who didn't throw Obama under the bus (unlike your precious Bernie who ran on the premise that he'd do a better job than Obama and also your precious Trump - I still remember your old posts - who not only threw him under the bus, he got behind the wheel as well)
One of the Powell emails also implied the Obamas and Clintons hate each other but I'll take that with a grain of salt.
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Member Since: 9/17/2011
Posts: 9,051
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Quote:
Originally posted by Lord Blackout
In order to be seen as a change candidate? Aren't you always ranting here about how it's a change election? She could have thrown him under the bus for the decision to not negotiate a military placement in Iraq before 2011 which led to the rise of ISIS. She could have thrown him under the bus for the decision to not get the troops involved in Libya. She could have thrown him under the bus for Obamacare. There's plenty of things she could have done to avoid being seen as Obama's second term.
His coalition went to the two anti-Obama candidates instead of the pro-Obama candidate so I'm not sure what the point of that paragraph is. He was campaigning for her because she once campaigned for him even harder and held fundraisers for him etc. You're acting as if he was doing her a blind favor when his legacy (Obamacare) was on the line as well.
Lemme not even get into the shenanigans of the DNC during the 2008 primary (something Bernie bros such as your ass seem to forget despite being supposedly against corruption) and that was an actually close primary unlike this one where Bernie got totally embarrassed. And she never repeatedly yelled "rigged" and whined like your precious Bernie. I supported Obama over Hillary back then and now I support the only one who didn't throw Obama under the bus (unlike your precious Bernie who ran on the premise that he'd do a better job than Obama and also your precious Trump - I still remember your old posts - who not only threw him under the bus, he got behind the wheel as well)
One of the Powell emails also implied the Obamas and Clintons hate each other but I'll take that with a grain of salt.
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She was never going to be looked at as the change candidate because this election wasn't about the last 8 years it was about middle America being frustrated with the last 30 years of politics and politicians and Hillary was knew deep in that. She won the popular vote but lost in the rust belt where the election was actually decided because those folks have been bleeding jobs for decades and they believe that is a direct result of bad trades. There's no way in hell those folks were ever gonna look at Clinton as a 'change' candidate. So no, throwing Obama under the bus wouldn't of helped her, in fact it would have left her without much of a coalition at all.
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Member Since: 4/30/2012
Posts: 1,663
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Quote:
Originally posted by lightstheyblindme
oh so now Hillary lost because she packaged herself as the next Obama?
you guys really will do anything to avoid admitting that Hillary lost because she was seen as corrupt - and the reason she was seen as corrupt was because she is, in fact, corrupt
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yo girl before you wanna act like you're cute as **** can you explain to me exactly where i said that?
because i'm about 99% sure the only thing i said was that was a big criticism of hers. which it was. people voted for trump because they wanted change. people like obama but they're tired of his administration. he isn't as hard on republicans, he can't get anything passed, the right loathes him. he would not have won a third term. that comment was pure arrogance. donald trump ran on the message of going against his presidency. and FYI, all of hillary's flaws, minus the emails, have been obama's flaws so lets not even go there.
 so
maybe you should chill
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Member Since: 8/19/2013
Posts: 28,773
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Quote:
Originally posted by RihRihGirrrl
She was never going to be looked at as the change candidate because this election wasn't about the last 8 years it was about middle America being frustrated with the last 30 years of politics and politicians and Hillary was knew deep in that. She won the popular vote but lost in the rust belt where the election was actually decided because those folks have been bleeding jobs for decades and they believe that is a direct result of bad trades. There's no way in hell those folks were ever gonna look at Clinton as a 'change' candidate. So no, throwing Obama under the bus wouldn't of helped her, in fact it would have left her without much of a coalition at all.
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His coalition was the white working class in 2012 and 2008 and more black votes than her. In 2016, she won as many black votes as she used to as a senator before she ran against a black man which is disappointing compared to how Obama does with them. She became the very first democrat to win educated whites. And millennials flocked to Gary and Jill Stein hence the 6% of votes wasted on third parties this year (Higher than even 2000). Obama helped but to say he would have left her with no coalition is foolish when the coalitions that elected him didn't show up for her and she got a new coalition added in while keeping her old coalitions.
Obama did all he could but God knows he still couldn't give her his old coalition.
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Member Since: 8/19/2013
Posts: 28,773
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And no one is blaming her loss on Obama but keep reaching with T-rex arms to justify the fact that Obama's snide comment is rude as hell to the one candidate who did not put up an anti-Obama message.
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Member Since: 5/12/2012
Posts: 7,989
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Quote:
Originally posted by Wonderland
Also I'm calling ******** on this "elitist" liberal thing people are saying/have been saying in recent times.
The conservatives are just as bad if not worse.
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Omg this!!
I have a friend who voted for Evan McMullen, attends Princeton, attended the one of the most affluent schools in her states. She was shocked when I said I have no sympathy for Trump voters that regret their votes. She tried to rationalize and explain that they "didn't know better" and they're "from areas that aren't as diverse" and kept going on with the stereotypical explanation of why they voted that way and why they think the way they do. I'm from Kentucky, from a poor county whose high school couldn't afford lighting in the hallways or toilet paper for a year. I'm from the stereotypical image of "middle America". I, and most of my more academic friends from high school, still voted for Hillary Clinton and definitely lean liberal.
The whole "Middle America" narrative is absolute ********. People's thoughts are not tied to where they're from. The way you view the world is a choice.
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Member Since: 5/12/2012
Posts: 7,989
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Are there Bernie supporters in here trying to say that Hillary's ties to Obama wasn't a weakness?? When Bernie and his supporters screamed bloody hell about how corrupt and establishment she was for defending Obama's presidency?! Okay. Have people forgotten the primaries??
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Member Since: 4/30/2012
Posts: 1,663
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Quote:
Originally posted by Lord Blackout
And no one is blaming her loss on Obama but keep reaching with T-rex arms to justify the fact that Obama's snide comment is rude as hell to the one candidate who did not put up an anti-Obama message.
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people only read what they want to read, and if that means they means they can hate hillary then they're gonna interpret it that way.
the decades right wing slander, ha impact.
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Member Since: 8/19/2013
Posts: 28,773
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Quote:
Originally posted by Bloo
Are there Bernie supporters in here trying to say that Hillary's ties to Obama wasn't a weakness?? When Bernie and his supporters screamed bloody hell about how corrupt and establishment she was for defending Obama's presidency?! Okay. Have people forgotten the primaries?? |
Hilarious. They're as paranoid as their grumpy grandpa was during the primary.
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Member Since: 8/19/2013
Posts: 28,773
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Speaking of the devil
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“There are some people who think that everybody who voted for Donald Trump is a racist, a sexist or a homophobe or a xenophobe. I don’t believe that. Are those people in his camp? Absolutely. But it would be a tragic mistake to believe that everybody who voted for Donald Trump is a ‘deplorable,’ Sanders said, referencing Hillary Clinton’s “basket of deplorables” comment on the campaign trail. “They’re not. These are people who are disgusted, and they are angry at the establishment. And the Democratic Party has not been clear enough, in my view, about telling those people, whether they are white, whether they are black, Latino, Asian American or whatever, women, gay, whatever, that we are on their side.”
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http://www.rawstory.com/2016/12/bern...as-deplorable/
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Member Since: 5/27/2016
Posts: 2,324
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Wow Bernie always manages to hit the nail on the head. Hillary doesn't have the depth or insight to say things like that.
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Member Since: 4/30/2012
Posts: 1,663
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Quote:
Originally posted by Lord Blackout
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Can't wait for Bernie supporters to rationalize these comments from Mr. No-More-Identity-Politics himself.
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Member Since: 5/12/2012
Posts: 7,989
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Quote:
Originally posted by Lord Blackout
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So, according to him, a con-man that refused to pay small businesses is somehow the way to connect to white working class Americans? This also doesn't line up with the data (in most swing states, Hillary won voters that listed the economy as their chief issue).
No matter how you paint it, if you voted for Donald Trump, you are either supportive or condoning of sexism, racism, ableism, bigotry, etc. And that means you are part of the problem.
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Member Since: 5/12/2012
Posts: 7,989
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Quote:
Originally posted by midnightdawn
Wow Bernie always manages to hit the nail on the head. Hillary doesn't have the depth or insight to say things like that.
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Then why is it that she said this point a long time ago before anyone else did? 
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Originally posted by Hillary Clinton
I know there are only 60 days left to make our case -- and don't get complacent, don't see the latest outrageous, offensive, inappropriate comment and think, well, he's done this time. We are living in a volatile political environment. You know, to just be grossly generalistic, you could put half of Trump's supporters into what I call the basket of deplorables. Right? The racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic, Islamaphobic -- you name it. And unfortunately there are people like that. And he has lifted them up. He has given voice to their websites that used to only have 11,000 people -- now 11 million. He tweets and retweets their offensive hateful mean-spirited rhetoric. Now, some of those folks -- they are irredeemable, but thankfully they are not America.
But the other basket -- and I know this because I see friends from all over America here -- I see friends from Florida and Georgia and South Carolina and Texas -- as well as, you know, New York and California -- but that other basket of people are people who feel that the government has let them down, the economy has let them down, nobody cares about them, nobody worries about what happens to their lives and their futures, and they're just desperate for change. It doesn't really even matter where it comes from. They don't buy everything he says, but he seems to hold out some hope that their lives will be different. They won't wake up and see their jobs disappear, lose a kid to heroin, feel like they're in a dead-end. Those are people we have to understand and empathize with as well.
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