[geo]

Originally posted by lightstheyblindme

okay but it Hillary still lost heavily-black NC/OH and heavily-Latino FL even though she's SOOOO much stronger with minorities so did it really matter in the end that she was stronger with POC?

and it's kind of dumb to be debating minority turnout when everybody knows at this point that rural white voters handed this election to Trump (and overwhelmingly sided with Bernie over Hillary)
we know that these white rust belt voters chose Trump over Hillary so the real question we should be asking is if they would have chosen Trump or Bernie on election day - and considering Hillary lost those states by a narrow 1-2% margin and Bernie was a much more popular candidate in those deciding rust belt states, it's pretty safe to assume that he would have been able to eke out a narrow victory in some if not all of those states

The rural white voters that Trump won in the general are not the same as the rural white voters that Bernie won in the primaries. Trump's base just was not going to go for Bernie as soon as the GOP started painting him with the socialist brush.

It is still important to discuss minority turnout because even if Bernie did make gains among whites, it could have been cancelled out by lower minority support.

[mermaid_ariel]

Originally posted by geo

I can't believe she held that huge rally in Philly and the state still did her like that. How rude.

Philly and Pittsburgh did her right. It was the ugly rurals that ruined it

[TheVoiceXtina]

Originally posted by geo

I can't believe she held that huge rally in Philly and the state still did her like that. How rude.

as a fan of Corbyn i thot so too but wow, sorry cant relate

[lightstheyblindme]

Originally posted by Lord Blackout

(1) She won the Wayne County by twice Trump's votes so it just shows how statistically inconsequential the Muslim vote is in that state.
(2) Ok but that's not particularly great. The fact is he did much better with PoC millenials but they couldn't even be bothered to go out and vote for him.

One can argue based on stats. I don't think minorities would have been important for him in the general election anyway as they sat that one out. I'm just pointing out your intellectually dishonest statement.

I feel like you're missing the point of what I'm saying - I was responding to someone saying minority voters weren't there for Bernie with evidence that there were clear indicators that his minority turnout was improving as the primary progressed and that some Muslims preferred Bernie to Hillary. failure of pollsters to predict Bernie's minority turnout in MI exemplified this trend.

[IMG][/IMG]

[midnightdawn]

Hillary is so unpopular that I think she would have lost to just about any of the Republican candidates. Her campaign and messaging was terrible. She is actually really bad at running campaigns, she doesn't know how to explain her policies in an everyday context, or connect with voters.

[Lord Blackout]

Looking at the Michigan map, 95% of counties were red but she's only trailing Trump by 0.3% (nn if that changes in her favor miraculously). It means in every county, she was set up to win but a very small group of people decided to sit this one out. Lack of enthusiasm truly killed her chances.

[Lord Blackout]

Originally posted by midnightdawn

Hillary is so unpopular that I think she would have lost to just about any of the Republican candidates. Her campaign and messaging was terrible. She is actually really bad at running campaigns, she doesn't know how to explain her policies in an everyday context, or connect with voters.

She wasn't though. If that were the case, the debates wouldn't have highlighted her policies instead of his. But who's checking for policies when emails are in the picture? And news channels almost never showed her rally speeches. Not even the Al Gore one.

[lightstheyblindme]

Originally posted by geo

The rural white voters that Trump won in the general are not the same as the rural white voters that Bernie won in the primaries.

false. simple demography shows that many of the rural rust belt voters who voted for Obama in 2008/2012 voted for Trump in this election. almost every news organization conceded that Trump made right on his promise to capture a lot of Democrat voters who felt disenfranchised by their own party - in other words, the results of this election proved that the "Trump Democrat" was not just a myth

[mermaid_ariel]

Originally posted by midnightdawn

Hillary is so unpopular that I think she would have lost to just about any of the Republican candidates. Her campaign and messaging was terrible. She is actually really bad at running campaigns, she doesn't know how to explain her policies in an everyday context, or connect with voters.

You can't blame that totally on Hillary. I think she had a great message and great policies. She had no problem explaining her policies. But it's hard to do when you're running against someone unqualified who doesn't know policy and doesn't want to talk policy. Plus the media barely talked about policies this election..they'd rather focus on pointless scandals and emails and Trump's rhetoric for ratings.

I think if she would've ran against a more traditional politician and the campaign was more policy based she would've won and her message would've resonated more. Trump drove out those rural white voters who usually never vote.

[TheVoiceXtina]

Originally posted by Lord Blackout

Looking at the Michigan map, 95% of counties were red but she's only trailing Trump by 0.3% (nn if that changes in her favor miraculously). It means in every county, she was set up to win but a very small group of people decided to sit this one out. Lack of enthusiasm truly killed her chances.

Jesus its literally everyone else's fault innit? Does she not get ANY blame for her awful campaign?

Wow so blinded by your bias

[slw84]

Originally posted by geo

I can't believe she held that huge rally in Philly and the state still did her like that. How rude.

NGL I thought she had Florida and Pennsylvania.

I wasn't surprised about Ohio because of that desperate last minute ditch effort with Jayz and beyonce to drum up votes but FL and PA.

Wow...oh wow

[Lord Blackout]

Originally posted by TheVoiceXtina

Jesus its literally everyone else's fault innit? Does she not get ANY blame for her awful campaign?

Wow so blinded by your bias

Well she could have lied to the people and promised them CHANGE but we know that's not happening. Scandals were her worst wound and those are thanks to her partly and thanks to the media. Like that's undeniable. Just look at the post-Comey shift in polls in swing states in both July and October.

[Raster]

Trump kinda shocked me by winning PA, WI and MI

He basically breached the Blue Firewall we all thought was gonna guarantee her win

[Lord Blackout]

And she could not have used the populist theme for her campaign because it was literally impossible to do so when she's already been in the white house. Blaming her "bad" campaign is dumb. It was 3 reasons:
1- She was the wrong candidate
2- The media and the way they handled her scandals and created some out of thin air
3- Protest votes and laziness.

[midnightdawn]

Originally posted by Lord Blackout

And she could not have used the populist theme for her campaign because it was literally impossible to do so when she's already been in the white house. Blaming her "bad" campaign is dumb. It was 3 reasons:
1- She was the wrong candidate
2- The media and the way they handled her scandals and created some out of thin air
3- Protest votes and laziness.

How is it the media's fault? For like 6 months after the email scandal the Democrats were begging her to just apologize and move on, but she refused and kept giving these complicated answers to do with small c's and big c's that made her look dodgy and joking about wiping the server with a cloth. It was a lesson in how NOT to handle a scandal.

[Lord Blackout]

Originally posted by midnightdawn

How is it the media's fault? For like 6 months after the email scandal the Democrats were begging her to just apologize and move on, but she refused and kept giving these complicated answers to do with small c's and big c's that made her look dodgy and joking about wiping the server with a cloth. It was a lesson in how NOT to handle a scandal.

You're kidding, right? Medias covered it for 600+ days. That's not normal
No one is that interested in deleted emails. It was a cruelly manufactured scandal

Trump bribes 2 officials and gets fined for it. Media covers it for one day then moves on.

Someone releases some report linking the foundation to the department but not confirming anything.

Media obsession for months.

Trump's foundation gets fined for money laundering.

Media talks about it for 2 days.

It was a pattern.

http://economistsview.typepad.com/ec...ets-gored.html

[Lord Blackout]

From the very respected Gallup

http://www.gallup.com/poll/195596/em...d-clinton.aspx

[lightstheyblindme]

Originally posted by TheVoiceXtina

Jesus its literally everyone else's fault innit? Does she not get ANY blame for her awful campaign?

Wow so blinded by your bias

there were a lot of external factors that hurt her campaign and, collectively, most likely cost her the election:

(1) Russia conducting a psy-op war against Hillary by hacking & leaking her campaign emails (a top Russian official even admitted to doing this the day after the election)
(2) Republicans closing polling places in minority-dominated areas, especially in NC and FL
(3) Hillary having to defend not only her own policy decisions but her husband's

[TheVoiceXtina]

Originally posted by midnightdawn

How is it the media's fault? For like 6 months after the email scandal the Democrats were begging her to just apologize and move on, but she refused and kept giving these complicated answers to do with small c's and big c's that made her look dodgy and joking about wiping the server with a cloth. It was a lesson in how NOT to handle a scandal.

omg so true

[Lord Blackout]

When it came to Trump, medias were only focused on making him look racist and divisive and awful on a personal level. They overrated the decency of the American people (Lol)
They barely bothered with his corruption investigations by many reporters.