Harris,Hitchens and Dawkins are amazing. Can't say I've ever paid much attention to Dennet. I
I should look some of his work up.
Is that the guy from the "it's just not realistic" gif in the 2 dinners video?
I like Hitchens and Dawkins style the more cuz they are akin to mine own but I've been really feeling Sam lately. He is more calm and more willing to play the devils advocate on ocasion. Same about Dennet but he is/was the least active among the four
Hitchens was amazing, I really miss his witty replies and brutal honesty.
When he went off on this woman up for lying to everyone claiming that Iran is a country where women are treated equally and the quran gives women rights. More people need to shut up religious liars like this
Hitchens was amazing, I really miss his witty replies and brutal honesty.
When he went off on this woman up for lying to everyone claiming that Iran is a country where women are treated equally and the quran gives women rights. More people need to shut up religious liars like this
Oh my god, I've seen people online talking about this. "I'm a muslim feminist". I just lost it. Have they not read the Quran? This woman sat there saying that Muhammad was the first feminist and he was very protective of minorities. Even without the Quran we still have these things called history books ffs
****ing kings. Or at least they were till the SJWs infiltrated the atheist community and turned it to ****.
I only follow Hawkings, I was reading "The God Delusion" book today and the part about homosexuality! He is so funny and smart, I am triggered because I have to return book this Friday, any suggestions about other atheist related books?
Oh my god, I've seen people online talking about this. "I'm a muslim feminist". I just lost it. Have they not read the Quran? This woman sat there saying that Muhammad was the first feminist and he was very protective of minorities. Even without the Quran we still have these things called history books ffs
I only follow Hawkings, I was reading "The God Delusion" book today and the part about homosexuality! He is so funny and smart, I am triggered because I have to return book this Friday, any suggestions about other atheist related books?
Hitchens book God is not good is pretty good but The God Delusion imo was the best among them. This monday I am putting in an order for Lawrence Krauses book A universe from nothing.
Oh my god, I've seen people online talking about this. "I'm a muslim feminist". I just lost it. Have they not read the Quran? This woman sat there saying that Muhammad was the first feminist and he was very protective of minorities. Even without the Quran we still have these things called history books ffs
I'm reading the Quran myself right now. Those people must be purposely ignorant to what they read to even come up with the idea that it is empowering to women.
of course they'd be promoting a piece of headwear enforced by an oppressive patriarchy. Feminism 2016.
So many people promote headscarfes without understanding the profound impact it has on women in so many countries.I am all for someone wearing what they want if it is their choice and theirs alone but sadly we are not there yet. To promote this with a "but look women in the West are free to wear it or not wear it" attitude is quite reckless in my opinion. The concern should not be to make people who enjoy freedom in the West feel validated in their choice but prioritise and help women who don't have those freedoms.
Quote:
Originally posted by Ecstasy
Hitchens book God is not good is pretty good but The God Delusion imo was the best among them. This monday I am putting in an order for Lawrence Krauses book A universe from nothing.
I've been putting reading something from Kraus off for so long because following physiscs is really hard for me .
I'm reading the Quran myself right now. Those people must be purposely ignorant to what they read to even come up with the idea that it is empowering to women.
So many people promote headscarfes without understanding the profound impact it has on women in so many countries.I am all for someone wearing what they want if it is their choice and theirs alone but sadly we are not there yet. To promote this with a "but look women in the West are free to wear it or not wear it" attitude is quite reckless in my opinion. The concern should not be to make people who enjoy freedom in the West feel validated in their choice but prioritise and help women who don't have those freedoms.
I've been putting reading something from Kraus off for so long because following physiscs is really hard for me .
I've been putting it off for the same reason but idk it just sounds fascinating. Plus if it does turn out to be an answer as to how universe was created then it's check and mate to bible thumpers once and for all.
So many people promote headscarfes without understanding the profound impact it has on women in so many countries.I am all for someone wearing what they want if it is their choice and theirs alone but sadly we are not there yet. To promote this with a "but look women in the West are free to wear it or not wear it" attitude is quite reckless in my opinion. The concern should not be to make people who enjoy freedom in the West feel validated in their choice but prioritise and help women who don't have those freedoms.
that's like if gays decide to wear pink triangles like the gay men had to wear during Hitler's regime, and for someone criticizing such gays would be labelled as "homophobe" because"how dare they tell what gays should and shouldn't wear". I mean, you're free to wear a symbol of opression, but you're a freaking moron for doing so AND labelling it as an act of expowerment when gays were literally looked down up,beat up and murdered for being a gay man and having to wear such opressive symbolic label.
EDIT: not to mention wearing such opressing symbol not only symbolizes that you're a lesser human but it also means you support nazism ideology when you would proudly wear such symbol
the same thing with "muslims feminists", not only that headscarf symbolizes female oppresion, but it also means you support Islam and the ideology behind such religion and everything that comes within such religion, it's laws and definitions of "morality".
I've been putting it off for the same reason but idk it just sounds fascinating. Plus if it does turn out to be an answer as to how universe was created then it's check and mate to bible thumpers once and for all.
Wether or not it's correct: we already know for their certain their version is completely false
Quote:
Originally posted by FBF
Yes
And it looks like his channel is full of him just ranting about random ****, it's hilarious
You guys are having an intelligent conversation, and I'm here talking about silly youtube videos, what a dummy
Nothing wrong with youtube videos. They're a good way to get an extra opinion and/or get discussions started on topics. I will admit though I couldn't quite follow the guy from the 2 dinners video because his persona was a little exhausting to watch for me what was the point he was raising in the video?
Quote:
Originally posted by AvrilLaQueen
that's like if gays decide to wear pink triangles like the gay men had to wear during Hitler's regime, and for someone criticizing such gays would be labelled as "homophobe" because"how dare they tell what gays should and shouldn't wear". I mean, you're free to wear a symbol of opression, but you're a freaking moron for doing so AND labelling it as an act of expowerment when gays were literally looked down up,beat up and murdered for being a gay man and having to wear such opressive symbolic label.
EDIT: not to mention wearing such opressing symbol not only symbolizes that you're a lesser human but it also means you support nazism ideology when you would proudly wear such symbol
the same thing with "muslims feminists", not only that headscarf symbolizes female oppresion, but it also means you support Islam and the ideology behind such religion and everything that comes within such religion, it's laws and definitions of "morality".
I've never thought of it that way the more I think about a scenario where a mistretead group would start wearing symbols that were part of their opression the more strange it seems to me that there are people, with the choice, choose to do so.
Nothing wrong with youtube videos. They're a good way to get an extra opinion and/or get discussions started on topics. I will admit though I couldn't quite follow the guy from the 2 dinners video because his persona was a little exhausting to watch for me what was the point he was raising in the video?
None
It's just a silly video of him ranting about random stuff, I'm not contributing to any topics with this video
I mean there is no problem with wearing those head scarfs if that is a religion you choose to follow. As we all know, religion is a choice and whether we agree with its policies or not, as long as it does not hurt anybody they are free to follow that religion, no matter how oppressive. But to just lie through your teeth and try to make it look like it is empowering to women is just mocking all those women that don't have a choice and it is mocking our intelligence as if we can't ****ing read either the Quran, the history books or news articles. Give me a break
Lurk reading some of these discussions itt have been interesting to say the least.
Quote:
Originally posted by Lucas32
So many people promote headscarfes without understanding the profound impact it has on women in so many countries.I am all for someone wearing what they want if it is their choice and theirs alone but sadly we are not there yet. To promote this with a "but look women in the West are free to wear it or not wear it" attitude is quite reckless in my opinion. The concern should not be to make people who enjoy freedom in the West feel validated in their choice but prioritise and help women who don't have those freedoms.
I'm a bit curious, how does society get there? Condemn the complete wearing of the headscarf in such a way seems more like a way to remove it than to separate from the direct negative religious meanings, laws and teachings.
Also what about the western women who have felt attacked for their choice to wear headscarves due to stereotypes and so forth?
that's like if gays decide to wear pink triangles like the gay men had to wear during Hitler's regime, and for someone criticizing such gays would be labelled as "homophobe" because"how dare they tell what gays should and shouldn't wear". I mean, you're free to wear a symbol of opression, but you're a freaking moron for doing so AND labelling it as an act of expowerment when gays were literally looked down up,beat up and murdered for being a gay man and having to wear such opressive symbolic label.
Gay people for decades have literally reappropriated and took back the pink triangle as a symbol.
It's just a silly video of him ranting about random stuff, I'm not contributing to any topics with this video
I thought there was a point I was missing
Quote:
Originally posted by Shizuka
Lurk reading some of these discussions itt have been interesting to say the least.
I'm a bit curious, how does society get there? Condemn the complete wearing of the headscarf in such a way seems more like a way to remove it than to separate from the direct negative religious meanings, laws and teachings.
Also what about the western women who have felt attacked for their choice to wear headscarves due to stereotypes and so forth?
Is there no middle ground for both?
How do we get there is the golden question.
I am against bans on hijabs in the same way I am against bans on any type of clothing.
There are rarely cases where I am for more government control.
I think more importnatly we need to focus on the muslim countries where it is the worst.
Invading those countries isn't helping as we've seen early last decade and only backfired on us.
Trading with those countries isn't helping. Ultimately change has to come from within the country and the best thing to do is support reformers in the muslim world and protect them.
Quote:
Originally posted by Communion
Gay people for decades have literally reappropriated and took back the pink triangle as a symbol.
They don't wear them and if there are any who do there is no noticeable amount of people who do. It's definitely far from mainstream in the way headscarfs are.
How do we get there is the golden question.
I am against bans on hijabs in the same way I am against bans on any type of clothing.
There are rarely cases where I am for more government control.
I think more importnatly we need to focus on the muslim countries where it is the worst.
Invading those countries isn't helping as we've seen early last decade and only backfired on us.
Trading with those countries isn't helping. Ultimately change has to come from within the country and the best thing to do is support reformers in the muslim world and protect them.
Thats why I've been talking about Sam and his work with Maajid. He is a former muslim extremist turn liberal activist. Basically the big problem is that extremists though smaller in number than moderates are more or less controlling the Muslim population through fear or by dictatorship or both. Western intervention however is just as feared by the moderates since it reeks of colonialism and conquest. What Maajid wanted was to get the moderate islamic countries such as Turkey to take more action and clean up their back yard with Europe and America possibly supporting them through drones. There is no peaceful way to deal with fundamentalists but this way no american or european soldier will even step on middle eastern soil and the whole conflict however it gets resolved would remain in the hands of muslims and people of the middle east. If they manage to get rid of the like 10 or 20% of the extremists and let moderates take over then progress will take its course and sooner or later they will reach the age of enlightenment like Europe did in the 18th century.
They don't wear them and if there are any who do there is no noticeable amount of people who do. It's definitely far from mainstream in the way headscarfs are.
Um, because it was an AIDs symbol of rebellion decades ago and most people who championed such taking back of the symbol are dead, because of AIDs.
Do you say gay men who take back the word ****** or people of color who reclaim slurs are "oppressing themselves"? The logic is nonsense and part of respectability politics. Of course a Muslim woman can wear a hijab and be empowered if she chooses to wear it.
There is nothing, NOTHING in Islam that in any way is empowering to a woman. So no, a muslim woman wearing a hijab will never be empowered
So a nun cannot be empowered to you?
And on the opposite extreme, a sex worker could never feel empowered, according to you?
So you think forcing Muslim women o take off clothing in the middle of a busy beach at gun point like the French do is more empowering to women than letting them express themselves?
If you think every thing invented by the patriarchy will always be oppressive, even when women take back control of it, then the very things the forum you're currently on are oppressive too. Pop music? Oppressive. Films? Oppressive.
Even without the Quran we still have these things called history books ffs 
.
the more I think about a scenario where a mistretead group would start wearing symbols that were part of their opression the more strange it seems to me that there are people, with the choice, choose to do so.
