[King Maxx]

Half of boomers support free college. Just think of that.

[@michael]

I think Retro will probably be a Republican by the time he's 40

[Auris]

Originally posted by @michael

I think Retro will probably be a Republican by the time he's 40

By that time the Reps won't exist on this path

[that G.U.Y.]

Originally posted by Retro

But why? What comes after? The natural state of our society is such that something will take the place of college education as a qualifier for jobs to which access was formerly limited by access to degrees in turn being limited by economic factors. Will it actually have any significant, positive long term impact, or will we be in the same place in 40 years debating whether x or y new certification should be publicly available and fully funded because it will have become necessary for a good job?

In the context of the middle class I admit there will be a short-term devaluation of sorts to degrees. But on a global scale it's better to have a high percentage of the population college educated to compete on a global scale.

Of course I'm basing this on the premise that the education will be of the same or better quality. Who knows it may just turn college into High School 2.0 I want to have faith tho

[King Maxx]

I don't even wanna know what the parties, let alone the world, will be like in 20 years for me.

[Auris]

Originally posted by Retro

But why? What comes after? The natural state of our society is such that something will take the place of college education as a qualifier for jobs to which access was formerly limited by access to degrees in turn being limited by economic factors. Will it actually have any significant, positive long term impact, or will we be in the same place in 40 years debating whether x or y new certification should be publicly available and fully funded because it will have become necessary for a good job?

--------------------------------

The ONLY socialist principle I fully support is healthcare. The awkward mix of state and private healthcare just hurts everyone but the poorest of the poor. Our government assures us the right to life, so they should step in and assure that our health will always be taken care of.

Roads can be chartered, schools can be chartered, etc. but healthcare simply should not be a mix of private and public.

[@michael]

Free public high school education didn't eliminate private high schools, so I don't see why free public universities would eliminate private universities. Public universities are already cheaper than private universities, but that's not stopping people from going to private schools. The elites and wannabe-elites will still go to private universities even after public universities become free.

[King Maxx]

No to private schools. No to private prisons. No to private healthcare. No to private Social Security. No to anything private tbh.

I'm a firm believer of government regulation. It's the only way everyone can be accounted and protected for. And that's the biggest difference between a Democrat and a Republican. I could never join a party who advocates for such privatization and "small government"

[Retro]

Originally posted by @michael

I think Retro will probably be a Republican by the time he's 40

I mean, on the flip side I can see how changing the actual structure of our society with regard to work and education is the appealing side to some people, and it's the side I could better argue to support since I've immersed myself in progressive liberal ideology. So I don't think I'm even that conservative on the issue really. But I just can't help but think that simple solutions like free tuition are ineffective, too simplified, ignorant of some of the more fundamental problems and how we're addressing them.

I'm further left than Bernie and Jill overall. I could never see myself drifting to the point where I'm on the right side of the spectrum, and certainly not while "right wing" still carries with it the air of racism, homophobia, sexism. But I could see myself becoming a pragmatic, detail oriented Hillary Clinton kind of Democrat. Her incredible attention to detail and understanding of reality is what draws me to her, and what makes me a little less than satisfied about her adoption of the $15 minimum wage and free tuition.

But also, we're seeing rapid stratification of the political parties - and liberals are getting more liberal, conservatives are getting more conservative, and anyone who has even foot over the fence is being left behind in the middle (and as many have noted, that's a growing number of people).

[Retro]

Originally posted by King Maxx

No to private schools. No to private prisons. No to private healthcare. No to private Social Security. No to anything private tbh.

I'm a firm believer of government regulation. It's the only way everyone can be accounted and protected for. And that's the biggest difference between a Democrat and a Republican. I could never join a party who advocates for such privatization and "small government"

yeah I simply can't support all of those statements. Private prisons have been demonstrated to be an issue, racially and otherwise, and the criminal justice system should be mostly publicly funded; the private healthcare industry is guilty of abhorrent price gauging and outright abuse of position. But social security is a more complex issue I honestly haven't thought about enough, and I support private educational institutions (on the college level, not always below but still sometimes there too) enough to go to one.

[lilostolemycoke]

Originally posted by Retro

I mean, on the flip side I can see how changing the actual structure of our society with regard to work and education is the appealing side to some people, and it's the side I could better argue to support since I've immersed myself in progressive liberal ideology. So I don't think I'm even that conservative on the issue really. But I just can't help but think that simple solutions like free tuition are ineffective, too simplified, ignorant of some of the more fundamental problems and how we're addressing them.

I'm further left than Bernie and Jill overall. I could never see myself drifting to the point where I'm on the right side of the spectrum, and certainly not while "right wing" still carries with it the air of racism, homophobia, sexism. But I could see myself becoming a pragmatic, detail oriented Hillary Clinton kind of Democrat. Her incredible attention to detail and understanding of reality is what draws me to her, and what makes me a little less than satisfied about her adoption of the $15 minimum wage and free tuition.

But also, we're seeing rapid stratification of the political parties - and liberals are getting more liberal, conservatives are getting more conservative, and anyone who has even foot over the fence is being left behind in the middle (and as many have noted, that's a growing number of people).

[King Maxx]

I don't know if any of you guys have noticed, but at her rallies and in interviews, Hillary now says, "And we will raise the minimum wage to a living wage" She doesn't say a specific $.

And when it comes to free college she just says, "help families in need". She also stop saying "for families $125K and under". She's trying to walk that fence Retro is talking about and hoping no one notices.

[Retro]

Originally posted by King Maxx

I don't know if any of you guys have noticed, but at her rallies and in interviews, Hillary now says, "And we will raise the minimum wage to a living wage" She doesn't say a specific $.

And when it comes to free college she just says, "help families in need". She also stop saying "for families $125K and under". She's trying to walk that fence Retro is talking about and hoping no one notices.

And I love her sneaky ass for it, $12 and debt free all the way

[Auris]

Originally posted by King Maxx

No to private schools. No to private prisons. No to private healthcare. No to private Social Security. No to anything private tbh.

I'm a firm believer of government regulation. It's the only way everyone can be accounted and protected for. And that's the biggest difference between a Democrat and a Republican. I could never join a party who advocates for such privatization and "small government"

You must be from the East Coast, because there's simply no way that anyone on the West Coast (esp. Arizona) could support "no to private schools." Our charters and privates are amongst the top in the nation whereas our publics are near the bottom of the rankings. Competition and variety in schooling I think is very important to education.

There are charters here dedicated to the arts (ASA) alongside charters dedicated to intense studying and more "traditional" education (BASIS) and all types in-between (GCA). We have privates that range from religiously-based education (Brophy/Xavier) and entirely secular, almost anti-religious (Orme, PCDS). There's variety and enough choices for everyone because of how well our state has dealt with private and charter education. Of course there needs to be a standard that these schools need to adhere to, and there is. I think in the end, private education companies can handle education far better than the government.

Private prisons need more regulation, but still should be private imo. There are many issues with them, but having them under government control is dangerous.

Private healthcare I see only working if there is no government interference. I think this is where socialists are right - we guarantee the right to life and we need to enforce that right with socialized healthcare.

I am very strongly opposed to social security - the fact that we're forced to pay into something run by the government rather than being given options is just ridiculous. The Gov. should still provide the service but shouldn't force everyone into it - also they should just reform it in general to stop the inevitable crash.

[Auris]

Originally posted by King Maxx

I don't know if any of you guys have noticed, but at her rallies and in interviews, Hillary now says, "And we will raise the minimum wage to a living wage" She doesn't say a specific $.

And when it comes to free college she just says, "help families in need". She also stop saying "for families $125K and under". She's trying to walk that fence Retro is talking about and hoping no one notices.

Living wages are dangerous - they differ from location to location and can thus cause issues when the living wage in San Francisco is $15-45 whereas in Phoenix it'd be $10-37.

It was this debate topic two years ago that I was at my peak of debating and got me into the T200 debaters.

Minimum wages should be either set at a normal amount nationwide or not exist at all - there are reasonable arguments towards both sides.

[King Maxx]

Originally posted by Auris

You must be from the East Coast, because there's simply no way that anyone on the West Coast (esp. Arizona) could support "no to private schools." Our charters and privates are amongst the top in the nation whereas our publics are near the bottom of the rankings. Competition and variety in schooling I think is very important to education.

There are charters here dedicated to the arts (ASA) alongside charters dedicated to intense studying and more "traditional" education (BASIS) and all types in-between (GCA). We have privates that range from religiously-based education (Brophy/Xavier) and entirely secular, almost anti-religious (Orme, PCDS). There's variety and enough choices for everyone because of how well our state has dealt with private and charter education. Of course there needs to be a standard that these schools need to adhere to, and there is. I think in the end, private education companies can handle education far better than the government.

Private prisons need more regulation, but still should be private imo. There are many issues with them, but having them under government control is dangerous.

Private healthcare I see only working if there is no government interference. I think this is where socialists are right - we guarantee the right to life and we need to enforce that right with socialized healthcare.

I am very strongly opposed to social security - the fact that we're forced to pay into something run by the government rather than being given options is just ridiculous. The Gov. should still provide the service but shouldn't force everyone into it - also they should just reform it in general to stop the inevitable crash.

I'm from Louisiana. We have the worst education system in the country, and I blame Republicans for it. I'm a firm believer in Common Core.

Private prisons are for-profit prisons putting millions, specially minorities like myself, in prison for a buck. It's wrong.

Social Security is a necessity, and it's literally the only income for most elders. There's a reason Social Security has lasted for almost 100 years. I'm happy paying for something that it basically a safety net when I get old.

I don't want an abolition of private institutions, but I do want a bigger oversight from the government. Less private, more public. Not all public. Let me make that clear.

EDIT: Um no. Minimum wage is here to stay, and it needs to increase.

[King Maxx]

Also I do not advocate for private adoption/foster care agencies. You can thank The Fosters for that.

[Auris]

Originally posted by King Maxx

I'm from Louisiana. We have the worst education system in the country, and I blame Republicans for it. I'm a firm believer in Common Core.

Private prisons are for-profit prisons putting millions, specially minorities like myself, in prison for a buck. It's wrong.

Social Security is a necessity, and it's literally the only income for most elders. There's a reason Social Security has lasted for almost 100 years. I'm happy paying for something that it basically a safety net when I get old.

I don't want an abolition of private institutions, but I do want a bigger oversight from the government. Less private, more public. Not all public. Let me make that clear.

Common Core has DESTROYED lower education. When I was in public elementary school, each district would choose a curriculum and teach to it. My district taught us science just as much as they did math, and our history was oriented around our local history (Native Americans). With Common Core - you set a standard across the nation that leaves no room for personalization and leaves us with ridiculous mathematics principles that I believe harm math education. Most public lower schools don't even teach science anymore outside of their reading and I shouldn't even have to mention what's happening to arts and sports programs around public schools...

I could go on for days about why Common Core is terrible, but it's not worth the time. I'll just leave it with this:



I would like to see an abolition of public schools in favor of entirely charters. That way the government still provides free education, but lets people who know what they're doing take control of education instead of letting broken government districts and Common Core take the reigns. Companies like Great Hearts and BASIS have proven that they're more cost-efficient and education-efficient than the public system.

[qurl]

you private school girls .......

lemme not , but i'm ready for Hilary to 'ERASE HA!' @ my student loan debt because i'm like .... 75k deep and i DIDN'T go to a private school

[Retro]

Originally posted by King Maxx

I'm from Louisiana. We have the worst education system in the country, and I blame Republicans for it. I'm a firm believer in Common Core.

This might be our biggest disagreement and my biggest issue with Democrats! I am so strongly, passionately opposed to what common core has done that it's hard for me to ever trust my own party on education.