| |
Discussion: U.S. Election 2016
Member Since: 6/9/2011
Posts: 16,500
|
NE., do you genuinely believe that Hillary (as well as Bill) is a racist or rather that her polices will simply not be beneficial to people of color and other minority groups?
|
|
|
|
ATRL Senior Member
Member Since: 3/22/2012
Posts: 53,769
|
Quote:
Originally posted by NE.
She's a pretty standard Democratic candidate with alot of water under the bridge, so it's pretty juvenile to tell people you don't respect them for being apathetic that we have to choose between two greedy, mediocre candidates. |
And even if that is true, equating Hillary and Trump (see: "we have to choose between two greedy, mediocre candidates") is silly, trivial nonsense.
|
|
|
|
Member Since: 5/21/2009
Posts: 11,151
|
Quote:
Originally posted by i spit on haters
NE., do you genuinely believe that Hillary (as well as Bill) is a racist or rather that her polices will simply not be beneficial to people of color and other minority groups?
|
I think people have a tendency to lump people of color into one cohort, but truthfully different policies affect individual minority groups differently, so I don't really like to think of it that way. I don't think Hillary cares about the interests of the Black community and alot of her and Bill's reforms and policies had a major impact of lower-income Black communities, so I'm not exactly eager to give her my vote.
And if we're focusing more on the semantics (since for whatever reason too many people seem to think you can only be racist by Trump's approach), Hillary's referred to inner city black teenagers are superpredators and made several comments about Obama basically not being "fundementally American", so yeah she's not exactly someone I'd like to have dinner with, but hey that's just me.
|
|
|
|
Member Since: 7/21/2012
Posts: 28,099
|
Quote:
Originally posted by NE.
1. Having a platform and detailed plans doesn't necessarily mean they're going to get done, and for many people her platform isn't beneficial to them.
2. She doesn't have greatest track record, and a lot of people don't trust someone who's been caught in several lies and scandals in the White House.
3. Whether this is relevant or not, alot of people feel Hillary is just a phony, uncharasmatic, and pandering person.
I get that you guys want everyone to worship Hillary and vote her to be the first "Pop girl" (lol) in the White House or whatever ya'll are making her out to be, but on a realistic level, she's nothing captivating or inspiring. She's a pretty standard Democratic candidate with alot of water under the bridge, so it's pretty juvenile to tell people you don't respect them for being apathetic that we have to choose between two greedy, mediocre candidates. |
Do you have no one else to rant to or? Because
1. I just agreed with you that her platform isn't for everyone. But it is a platform, despite what the post said.
2. Not my problem or what I was discussing.
3. Still what does that have to do with me or what I was discussing.
And I never said you had to praise Hillary. I know there are Republicans and conservatives and people who would still hate her even if she gave them $1M. And I don't want a pop girl persona. I want her because I think she's qualified and I care about the issues, and I am very interested in politics and political science.
EDIT: Okay you're responding to my earlier posts. Now it makes sense. Still I have no respect for these people. It could be any Democratic running. I don't like conservatives. I find them racist, sexist, homophobic, and highly uneducated on the issues. And I don't like progressives who are too stuck in their ways to make smart, strategic choices to get what we all want done. I AM a progressive. A smart one. My opinion. Just like you have yours.
|
|
|
|
Member Since: 5/12/2012
Posts: 7,989
|
Quote:
Originally posted by NE.
And if we're focusing more on the semantics (since for whatever reason too many people seem to think you can only be racist by Trump's approach), Hillary's referred to inner city black teenagers are superpredators and made several comments about Obama basically not being "fundementally American", so yeah she's not exactly someone I'd like to have dinner with, but hey that's just me.
|
I'm going to stop you right here because the whole "super predator" criticism is racist in and of itself. First of all, Hillary was referring to gang members that committed crimes such as murder as "super predators". She was not even referring specifically to a racial group. She was referring specifically to gang members who partook in violence such as theft, vandalism, and most of all murder.
If you want to take the mental jump of lumping in black youth and black people as a whole as being directly targeted by that label because blacks are largely in gangs, that is your racist assumption. Hillary's criticism was entirely warranted. Even Bernie Sanders referred to that same group as "sociopaths" when he voiced his support of the 1994 Crime Bill.
Further, the black community at large wanted increased crime regulation because black communities were plagued with higher levels of crime and they wanted regulation to help secure their streets. So, I don't understand why the whole Crime Bill is suddenly Hillary Clinton being a racist and supporting anti-black legislation when it was supported by the majority of the black community.
|
|
|
|
ATRL Senior Member
Member Since: 3/22/2012
Posts: 53,769
|
But Hillary never specified African American boys as "superpredators" and rather focused that name or title specifically on gang-involved individuals. The greater context of the statements she made makes it crystal clear that she was referring to crime specifically, and the fact that the bill ended up disproportionately affecting black men wasn't intentional it its design or her comments. I also take issue with the idea that most of the criticisms she made of Obama had anything to do with race.
You say that "her and Bill's" policies had a negative impact on low-income black families, but what Hillary-led policies (which by definition are almost required to be from her Senate or SOS tenure) disproportionately affected these families in a negative way? She worked extensively with the Children's Defense Fund which was borne directly out of the Civil Rights movement. CHIP, for which she led the charge, basically helps just low-income families because of its very structure. Her career actually seems to tend toward helping the people for whom you claim she has no regard.
I mean, I can't tell you whether to feel that she personally cares about the black community and as an outsider I can't ever claim to speak for that community, but objective analysis doesn't seem to support the conclusions you have come to, especially your outright assertion that she is racist.
|
|
|
|
Member Since: 7/21/2012
Posts: 28,099
|
Hillary may have apologized for it, but the crime bill was to get "super predators" off the street. That's exactly what they are, and it was an appropriate word. It just negatively impacted AA communities.
And didn't Bernie call them psychopaths? That's worse.
|
|
|
|
Member Since: 6/9/2011
Posts: 16,500
|
I'll assume you're fully familiar with the 3-strike bill.
I don't think Hillary cares about the interests of the Black community and alot of her and Bill's reforms and policies had a major impact of lower-income Black communities, so I'm not exactly eager to give her my vote.
I do concur with this and many blacks feel the same, but then there are many within the black community who I feel is too loyal to the Clinton brand. I mean, this is a community that has deemed Bill Clinton "the first black President". I think if some of them did some thorough researching they would be surprised to what they would discover, to say the least.
|
|
|
|
Member Since: 5/12/2012
Posts: 7,989
|
Quote:
Originally posted by King Maxx
Hillary may have apologized for it, but the crime bill was to get "super predators" off the street. That's exactly what they are, and it was an appropriate word. It just negatively impacted AA communities.
And didn't Bernie call them psychopaths? That's worse.
|
Yep. Though, I won't criticize him for it because it was a fair term for the actual targets of the bill.
Quote:
|
Originally posted by Bernie Sanders
It is my firm belief that clearly, there are people in our society who are horribly violent, who are deeply sick and sociopathic, and clearly these people must be put behind bars in order to protect society from them.
|
|
|
|
|
Member Since: 7/21/2012
Posts: 28,099
|
White people have more issue with the crime bill and the Clintons' so called "racist" attempts then we blacks do.  Some underestimate the amount of love black people have for Bill, and especially the love black women have for Hillary. I hear them say "Hillary ran the WH in the 90s" all the time.
|
|
|
|
Member Since: 7/21/2012
Posts: 28,099
|
Quote:
Originally posted by i spit on haters
I'll assume you're fully familiar with the 3-strike bill.
I don't think Hillary cares about the interests of the Black community and alot of her and Bill's reforms and policies had a major impact of lower-income Black communities, so I'm not exactly eager to give her my vote.
I do concur with this and many blacks feel the same, but then there are many within the black community who I feel is too loyal to the Clinton brand. I mean, this is a community that has deemed Bill Clinton "the first black President". I think if some of them did some thorough researching they would be surprised to what they would discover, to say the least.
|
Hmm it sounds like black people don't know what their voting for, am I right? 
|
|
|
|
Member Since: 6/9/2011
Posts: 16,500
|
That's not at all what I was implying, but let's not also act as though some people or even some groups of people don't blindly vote in Presidential elections.
|
|
|
|
ATRL Senior Member
Member Since: 3/22/2012
Posts: 53,769
|
Quote:
Originally posted by i spit on haters
I'll assume you're fully familiar with the 3-strike bill.
|
The three-strikes part of the very Crime Bill about which these superpredator comments were made?
Anyway, Hillary has openly supported limits on mandatory sentencing for a while now. In a 2007 Democratic debate against Obama she made the following statements:
Quote:
We have to do all of these things:
We do have to go after racial profiling. I've supported legislation to try to tackle that.
We have to go after mandatory minimums. You know, mandatory sentences for certain violent crimes may be appropriate, but it has been too widely used. And it is using now a discriminatory impact.
We need diversion, like drug courts. Non-violent offenders should not be serving hard time in our prisons. They need to be diverted from our prison system.
|
|
|
|
|
Member Since: 5/12/2012
Posts: 7,989
|
Quote:
Originally posted by King Maxx
Hmm it sounds like black people don't know what their voting for, am I right? |
Oh, no. If black people were informed, then they obviously would have voted for Bernie because he's what's best for them and they just don't know it.
|
|
|
|
Member Since: 7/21/2012
Posts: 28,099
|
Quote:
Originally posted by i spit on haters
That's not at all what I was implying, but let's not also act as though some people or even some groups of people don't blindly vote in Presidential elections.
|
The primary voters got a lot of this information, and it caught on. She was on the Breakfast Club and Hot 97 to clarify. It was heavily debated in the debates and town halls. Bill got into it with dozens of protesters. They still went for her and not Bernie. And will go for her instead of Trump.
The handful of blind voters is irrelevant. You and others always throw "if only they knew" like they didn't already.
|
|
|
|
Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 9,438
|
Ddd at major Republicans flocking to Hillary
|
|
|
|
Member Since: 5/12/2012
Posts: 7,989
|
Quote:
Originally posted by Alchemist
Ddd at major Republicans flocking to Hillary
|
I think the tally so far is three? Anyone want to challenge that number?
|
|
|
|
Member Since: 1/4/2014
Posts: 6,751
|
Quote:
Originally posted by King Maxx
1. I just agreed with you that her platform isn't for everyone. But it is a platform, despite what the post said.
|
Hillary doesn't personally have a platform...what she says checks the boxes, but it's not her platform...that way she can sway in the political winds to catch whatever breeze is blowing. Elisabeth Warren has a platform, and has convictions, and sticks by them even when it's not politically convenient.
|
|
|
|
Member Since: 5/12/2012
Posts: 7,989
|
How does Hillary not have a platform? I get so confused when people make this claim because I honestly do not understand what they mean by it. If you're of that mindset, please do elaborate as to why you believe that.
|
|
|
|
Member Since: 10/17/2009
Posts: 5,464
|
Quote:
Originally posted by Bloo
How does Hillary not have a platform? I get so confused when people make this claim because I honestly do not understand what they mean by it. If you're of that mindset, please do elaborate as to why you believe that.
|
Yeah, that's an incredibly absurd and asinine claim. Though there have been quite a few of those on the last few pages.
|
|
|
|
|
|
