[ezra]

Originally posted by rivers

What point are you trying to make here? I still do not get it. When has Hillary supported this woman?

She supports feminism and these women (her, Gloria and many others) have some really atrocious views of men and society. That's why it matters. These women supported much, much more than the dictionary definition of equal rights under the law.

[Tsuko]

Originally posted by Dessy Fenix

While the stuff you mention may contribute to the gap, it doesn't fully explain it at all.

Obviously it doesn't fully explain it but the factors he mentioned will make a very significant difference. If you took them into account your might end up with a figure like 97% instead of 77%.

Using the method that they used, to make men and women earn equal money you'd actually have to pay women more money for the same job to make it 100%, which is ridiculous and goes against equality.

There are more men in prison because more men commit crimes. That's not sexism, it's actually equality, I think we can all agree this is fair. To get a 50/50 gender ratio in prisons you'd have to either be more lenient with men or be stricter with women, either way is silly. Just have the law laid out, try your best to apply it equally to everybody and there will always be more men than women in prison. It's not sexism, it's reality. It's the same with this, you can pay women more but that's unfair because then they'd earn more per hour than men or would earn more for easier jobs.

If every company makes sure they pay men and women with the same skills and qualifications the same amount for the same job there will always be a massive pay gap like this. To close the pay gap will require paying women more, and that's not equality, that's superiority for women (although we know feminists love that!).

[Dessy Fenix]

Originally posted by Tsuko

Obviously it doesn't fully explain it but the factors he mentioned will make a very significant difference. If you took them into account your might end up with a figure like 97% instead of 77%.

Using the method that they used, to make men and women earn equal money you'd actually have to pay women more money for the same job to make it 100%, which is ridiculous and goes against equality.

There are more men in prison because more men commit crimes. That's not sexism, it's actually equality, I think we can all agree this is fair. To get a 50/50 gender ratio in prisons you'd have to either be more lenient with men or be stricter with women, either way is silly. Just have the law laid out, try your best to apply it equally to everybody and there will always be more men than women in prison. It's not sexism, it's reality. It's the same with this, you can pay women more but that's unfair because then they'd earn more per hour than men or would earn more for easier jobs.

If every company makes sure they pay men and women with the same skills and qualifications the same amount for the same job there will always be a massive pay gap like this. To close the pay gap will require paying women more, and that's not equality, that's superiority for women (although we know feminists love that!).

Where do you find this data though?

[Tsuko]

Originally posted by Cupid

One woman does not represent the whole feminist movement.

Other feminists need to shun, publicly ridicule and expel her from feminism. If they let her share the same title as them then I assume that they support what she said.

We need two terms. One for the movement that really is for equal rights, and another for the movement which is about female supremacy.

I used to call myself a feminist when I thought it was for equal rights but when I've seem some of the things that some high-profile feminists have said I can't be part of that group anymore.

I support equal rights for men and women, that's why I'm NOT a feminist.

[Venus Temple]

Originally posted by ezra

Oh gosh. Really...there's so much? There's decades of radicalism among feminists. Andrea Dworkin started an anti-**** movement that called all **** is rape (only the women were the ones being raped in it of course). Even gay **** was rape according to her. This is her from her wiki:


In some of her writing (she was right up there with Gloria Steinam) she suggested that having sex with a man was by definition being raped and that's the only way men could have / understand sex. Hillary should not be supporting this.

Jfc. You are sad and pathetic.

One woman does not define a whole movement. There are extremists in all different groups and sects around the world. The LITERAL DEFINITION OF FEMENISM is wanting equal rights and opportunities. IT DOESN'T INCLUDE ALL THE RADICAL ******** YOU'RE POSTING. Having a problem with radical "feminism" should NOT make you have a problem with feminism as a WHOLE.

Do the uppercase letters make it easier for you to read?

Also, it's nice how you misquoted me and ignored the part where I asked if you were sexist. Looks like you are, in fact, sexist. How sad.

[Tsuko]

Originally posted by Dessy Fenix

Where do you find this data though?

It's a guess. The 77% is from their flawed data, so we know that is definitely not the correct value. The real value will certainly be higher, it might be 97%, 99%, 105%, 90%, or something like that. It's definitely not 77% considering how many things they didn't account for when arriving at the 77 cents for the dollar figure.

If feminists supported equal rights for men and women they would be doing better research to try and find a more accurate value taking into account flaws like the fact that males and females often do different jobs, or that men on average work more hours than women on average.

[Icarus]

Originally posted by ezra

Nope, not a troll. The gender pay gap is a bit of a myth. That "77 cents on the dollar" comes from aggregates of all men's wages added up compared to all women's wages added up. It doesn't take into account that tons of women are still stay at home moms, take maternity leave and request more days off than men. Which likely makes up for that 23 cent difference in aggregate wages.

Absolutely dead if this is true

[ezra]

Originally posted by Tsuko

Obviously it doesn't fully explain it but the factors he mentioned will make a very significant difference. If you took them into account your might end up with a figure like 97% instead of 77%.

Using the method that they used, to make men and women earn equal money you'd actually have to pay women more money for the same job to make it 100%, which is ridiculous and goes against equality.

There are more men in prison because more men commit crimes. That's not sexism, it's actually equality, I think we can all agree this is fair. To get a 50/50 gender ratio in prisons you'd have to either be more lenient with men or be stricter with women, either way is silly. Just have the law laid out, try your best to apply it equally to everybody and there will always be more men than women in prison. It's not sexism, it's reality. It's the same with this, you can pay women more but that's unfair because then they'd earn more per hour than men or would earn more for easier jobs.

If every company makes sure they pay men and women with the same skills and qualifications the same amount for the same job there will always be a massive pay gap like this. To close the pay gap will require paying women more, and that's not equality, that's superiority for women (although we know feminists love that!).

YASS

Point of contention: the prison rates with men in there is really sexist against them. Police target them for stop and searches, arrests etc. and they get sentenced to much harsher times for committing the same crimes as women. I'm not too sure this is fair under the law.

[Tsuko]

Originally posted by Cupid

NO!

Do I need to publicly shun Hitler to let everybody know I am a white person who does not support him? Absolutely not. Because most people are intelligent enough to understand that everybody shares different beliefs. Jesus Christ.

You can be a feminist and not support her views, it's ludicrous that anyone would think otherwise.

I apologize for using the Hitler analogy but I just wanted to put it across how dumb this argument is.

Almost every white person publicly shuns Hitler lol, and they're absolutely right to do so!

[Dessy Fenix]

Originally posted by Tsuko

Other feminists need to shun, publicly ridicule and expel her from feminism. If they let her share the same title as them then I assume that they support what she said.

We need two terms. One for the movement that really is for equal rights, and another for the movement which is about female supremacy.

I used to call myself a feminist when I thought it was for equal rights but when I've seem some of the things that some high-profile feminists have said I can't be part of that group anymore.

I support equal rights for men and women, that's why I'm NOT a feminist.

They've always been shunned (by feminists and "non-feminists" alike). People even call them feminazi (a term for extreme/radical feminism), albeit crude. But why shun them and give them attention when it is obvious that they do not represent that feminism truly stands for.

I mean I consider myself a proponent of trans rights but I'm not going to jump ship just because Caitlyn Jenner expressed anti-LGBT opinions and conservative values. You can't let the vocal minority change your ideas about a movement.

Originally posted by Tsuko

It's a guess. The 77% is from their flawed data, so we know that is definitely not the correct value. The real value will certainly be higher, it might be 97%, 99%, 105%, 90%, or something like that. It's definitely not 77% considering how many things they didn't account for when arriving at the 77 cents for the dollar figure.

If feminists supported equal rights for men and women they would be doing better research to try and find a more accurate value taking into account flaws like the fact that males and females often do different jobs, or that men on average work more hours than women on average.

Where are the numbers coming from? I mean I believe it does factor into a higher percentage but how do you know that it's 98% and not 80%. Even if it's was at 98% why is that gap still allowed to exist?

[Venus Temple]

Originally posted by Cupid

NO!

Do I need to publicly shun Hitler to let everybody know I am a white person who does not support him? Absolutely not. Because most people are intelligent enough to understand that everybody shares different beliefs. Jesus Christ.

You can be a feminist and not support her views, it's ludicrous that anyone would think otherwise.

I apologize for using the Hitler analogy but I just wanted to put it across how dumb this argument is.

educate him.

[Ramcoro]

This NYTimes article really goes into detail about the gender gap. Kind of debunks a lot of the so called "women chose lower paying jobs" myth.

Still, even when women join men in the same fields, the pay gap remains. Men and women are paid differently not just when they do different jobs but also when they do the same work. Research by Claudia Goldin, a Harvard economist, has found that a pay gap persists within occupations. Female physicians, for instance, earn 71 percent of what male physicians earn, and lawyers earn 82 percent.

[ezra]

Originally posted by Cupid

Since when does this woman represent all of feminism?

Does Hitler represent all of white people? Should we assume, by your logic, that anybody who is white therefore supports Hitlers ideology?

You're conflating race with people's thoughts and ideas (feminism). Of course you shouldn't say all whites are bad because there's one bad white out there.

And yeah, maybe most feminists don't believe this stuff. Maybe. But they sure don't make that clear among all the rhetoric of "men get paid more than me for the same work" and "men need to be taught not to be rapists". This is radical stuff. Sorry, I disagree with it.

[ezra]

Originally posted by Tsuko

It's a guess. The 77% is from their flawed data, so we know that is definitely not the correct value. The real value will certainly be higher, it might be 97%, 99%, 105%, 90%, or something like that. It's definitely not 77% considering how many things they didn't account for when arriving at the 77 cents for the dollar figure.

If feminists supported equal rights for men and women they would be doing better research to try and find a more accurate value taking into account flaws like the fact that males and females often do different jobs, or that men on average work more hours than women on average.

But they aren't. They're running with flawed data and dragging men through the mud as sexists and woman haters who pay women a pittance for their hard work. Hillary has exposed this lie multiple times.

[Jan]

Feminism that is about equal pays, rights to choose between raising a child and work and assuring that legally women are not treated differently than men is good and necessary. Women are still considered to be a good in some countries and are most oftenly victims of violence from their husbands. We need such feminism, which will fight for women's rights but also men's rights to contributing to the upbringing of children.

Any other type of feminism is detrimental imo.

[ezra]

Originally posted by Cupid

Okay, race aside.

Would you say all Christians need to publicly shun the radical Christians / God hates **** people?
Or would you just assume all Christians across the world support those same ideas?

I don't like to assume anything, to be honest.

-

So the pay gap has been debunked. Which Hillary talking point shall we debunk next

[Ramcoro]

Originally posted by ezra

You're conflating race with people's thoughts and ideas (feminism). Of course you shouldn't say all whites are bad because there's one bad white out there.

And yeah, maybe most feminists don't believe this stuff. Maybe. But they sure don't make that clear among all the rhetoric of "men get paid more than me for the same work" and "men need to be taught not to be rapists". This is radical stuff. Sorry, I disagree with it.

What's wrong with telling boys to not rape?

[rivers]

Originally posted by Cupid

Okay, race aside.

Would you say all Christians need to publicly shun the radical Christians / God hates **** people?
Or would you just assume all Christians across the world support those same ideas?

President Obama supports Christians and he is absolutely wrong for this. All Christians believe gay people go to hell. They believe the earth was formed 2,000 years ago. All of them do not believe in evolution. I can't believe Obama associates himself with those people. He probably thinks all gay people go to hell cause he supports Christians and is a Christian.




This is literally the argument of the past couple pages

[Temporal]

Originally posted by rivers

President Obama supports Christians and he is absolutely wrong for this. All Christians believe gay people go to hell. They believe the earth was formed 2,000 years ago. All of them do not believe in evolution. I can't believe Obama associates himself with those people. He probably thinks all gay people go to hell cause he supports Christians and is a Christian.

um what

[ezra]

Originally posted by Ramcoro

What's wrong with telling boys to not rape?

Because it assumes that all boys are rapists? It assumes boys need to be taught not to rape because they're innately dangerous and rapists? Hello?