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Discussion: U.S. Election 2016: Primary Season
Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 27,856
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I'm not saying he's high and mighty and no other left leaning politicians stack up to him. I'm basing that call I made off of his history in politics (particularly in regards to his stances on civil rights issues) and also for the role he has had in rebranding socialism in America (which is a word which tends to be avoided like the plague). The latter will definitely have an impact on American politics going into the future, in my opinion - and Bernie's popularity among youth voters would seem to support that assertion. However yes, perhaps candidate would have been a better word for it. Oh well, he deserves credit for his campaign nonetheless.
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Member Since: 6/20/2012
Posts: 8,593
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Quote:
Originally posted by Wonderland
I'm not saying he's high and mighty and no other left leaning politicians stack up to him. I'm basing that call I made off of his history in politics (particularly in regards to his stances on civil rights issues) and also for the role he has had in rebranding socialism in America (which is a word which tends to be avoided like the plague). The latter will definitely have an impact on American politics going into the future, in my opinion - and Bernie's popularity among youth voters would seem to support that assertion.
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You're definitely correct. And statistics are showing that Socialist ideas among young Americans have been increasing, as well as hatred and negative views in regards to Capitalism.
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Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 27,856
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Quote:
Originally posted by Shame♥
Link
Everyone talking about how ignorant this. They are planning to go all the way to the convention. 
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I swear if Bernie were to drop dead right now this guy would still give this response if someone asked about the fate of his campaign 
He does deserve a raise for such optimism.
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Member Since: 8/3/2010
Posts: 71,871
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Quote:
Originally posted by Radiance
I don't know PA well but seeing that she won NY by 15, and PA is less affluent/less nonwhite than NY, I think it'll be closer. I'd give Hillary the edge but considering how much Bernie has been spending there, it'll be tight.
Hoping for a 5 state sweep next week.
Also think Hillary's campaign strategy in NY was excellent. The focus on ground work to contrast Bernie's extravagant trips to the Vatican worked well.
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Oh it will probably be slightly closer than NY. That was 15 points and she had extra advantages there. But this is a closed primary here too and she should win by more than 10. Philadelphia (where she's coming today) and Pittsburgh play too big of a role for a loss here and if she draws even mid state then she'll definitely win in the double digits. If he sweeps here there he keeps her mid single digits
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Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 6,067
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Quote:
Originally posted by Wonderland
It's a shame that Bernie's officially over now but at the end of the day, the writing was on the wall a long time ago.
I wanted to believe that America would somehow allow one of the greatest left-wing politicians of all time to bring their country up to speed with the rest of the west... but alas it was not to be and it's tragically clear that an irrational fear of socialism still tarnishes the political views of many - particularly among older voters who have both been historically and sometimes even personally exposed to corrupt and poorly managed socialist systems in volatile political environments. It's a shame, but it's the sad truth and I commend Senator Sanders for taking a stand and leading a political movement that fought long and hard to rebrand what it meant to be a socialist in America in 2016 and in doing so, winning the respect and hearts of many international observers 
However all is not lost. Hillary is still a tremendous candidate and brings a lot to the table particularly in regards to international relations - which are a pretty pressing issue at this point in time, might I add. I look forward to supporting her into the 2016 Presidential Election and wish her and the Hillhounds all the very best in the lead up
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Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 6,474
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Quote:
Originally posted by Wonderland
It's a shame that Bernie's officially over now but at the end of the day, the writing was on the wall a long time ago.
I wanted to believe that America would somehow allow one of the greatest left-wing politicians of all time to bring their country up to speed with the rest of the west... but alas it was not to be and it's tragically clear that an irrational fear of socialism still tarnishes the political views of many - particularly among older voters who have both been historically and sometimes even personally exposed to corrupt and poorly managed socialist systems in volatile political environments. It's a shame, but it's the sad truth and I commend Senator Sanders for taking a stand and leading a political movement that fought long and hard to rebrand what it meant to be a socialist in America in 2016 and in doing so, winning the respect and hearts of many international observers
However all is not lost. Hillary is still a tremendous candidate and brings a lot to the table particularly in regards to international relations - which are a pretty pressing issue at this point in time, might I add. I look forward to supporting her into the 2016 Presidential Election and wish her and the Hillhounds all the very best in the lead up
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Pure class Wish all the Bernsters were like this!
I have someone(the only Bernie supporter in my class) who tried to tell me that Bernie won New York.. Like girl, where do you get your info?  I provided her with links and she promptly made a "it's rigged! Of course she won, the establishment is backing her!" excuse. 
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Member Since: 6/20/2012
Posts: 8,593
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Quote:
1984
Mayor Sanders establishes the Burlington Community Land Trust, the first municipal housing land trust in the country for affordable housing. The project becomes a model emulated throughout the world. It later wins an award from Jack Kemp-led HUD.
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One of the greatest left-wing politicians of all time.
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Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 27,856
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Quote:
Originally posted by heckinglovato
You're definitely correct. And statistics are showing that Socialist ideas among young Americans have been increasing, as well as hatred and negative views in regards to Capitalism.
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It's definitely one of those generational shifts.. it's pretty fascinating, really.
Older voters tend to have always grown up in more conservative environments (as society tends to always become less and less conservative as time goes on) than younger voters and their views tend to always reflect that. But something else is at play between generations right now.
We have older voters who have lived through fears of communism, the cold war and corrupt socialist dictatorships and as a result, are relatively more skeptical and dismissive of socialistic ideals while younger voters haven't necessarily lived through any of those experiences, so are far more open and welcoming of socialist policies and ideals.
It'll be interesting to see if youth perceptions of socialism shift towards the older generation's over time or whether they hold true. I'm inclined to believe the latter though, as anti-capitalist sentiment only seems to be gaining traction as the years pass.
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Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 27,856
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Quote:
Originally posted by Venus Temple
Pure class Wish all the Bernsters were like this!
I have someone(the only Bernie supporter in my class) who tried to tell me that Bernie won New York.. Like girl, where do you get your info? I provided her with links and she promptly made a "it's rigged! Of course she won, the establishment is backing her!" excuse. |
Yeah a lot of my Bernie stan friends are being like that too 
At the end of the day, Hillary is still a political class act regardless of what people say. The country is in very good hands with her.. so long as she can win the damn election and those Republicans don't pull a win out of the bag somehow. Very unlikely, but you really never know with that messy party these days 
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Member Since: 6/20/2012
Posts: 8,593
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My favorite economic system would definitely be a smart of combination of capitalism and socialism. A competitive economy and market in which there's reasonable control by the government to assure customer and employee protection. Also, expanding social programs that ensure all members and groups of society are thriving.
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Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 3,292
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Around 400 delegates are up for grabs next tuesday, If Hillary gathers around 240-250 of them, she'll be just around 150 delegates away from the magic number. Considering there'll be some states here and there before June 5th, she might even reach that magic number before that date, or she'll be so close California would be quite irrelevant.
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Member Since: 12/7/2011
Posts: 18,969
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Quote:
Originally posted by heckinglovato
You're definitely correct. And statistics are showing that Socialist ideas among young Americans have been increasing, as well as hatred and negative views in regards to Capitalism.
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This is alarming and scary. But history proves time and time again, capitalism will be here to stay. If Karl Marx didn't make it happen, I doubt Sanders will.
Young Americans need to be more educated with the negative effects of destroying capitalistic establishment.
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Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 27,856
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Quote:
Originally posted by heckinglovato
My favorite economic system would definitely be a smart of combination of capitalism and socialism. A competitive economy and market in which there's reasonable control by the government to assure customer and employee protection. Also, expanding social programs that ensure all members and groups of society are thriving.
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That is probably everyone's ideal system tbh... it's just a lot of people don't realise what they want is actually socialism.
For example if someone says that they "want every child born to have an equal chance to succeed in life" (and let's get real, who here wouldn't want that to be the case?) - that's a form of socialism.
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Member Since: 12/7/2011
Posts: 18,969
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Quote:
Originally posted by Wonderland
That is probably everyone's ideal system tbh... it's just a lot of people don't realise what they want is actually socialism.
For example if someone says that they "want every child born to have an equal chance to succeed in life" (and let's get real, who here wouldn't want that to be the case?) - that's a form of socialism.
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The main difference here is that Hillary believes in equality of opportunities, while Bernie believes in equality of conditions.
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Member Since: 3/3/2011
Posts: 4,231
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Quote:
Originally posted by Wonderland
It's definitely one of those generational shifts.. it's pretty fascinating, really.
Older voters tend to have always grown up in more conservative environments (as society tends to always become less and less conservative as time goes on) than younger voters and their views tend to always reflect that. But something else is at play between generations right now.
We have older voters who have lived through fears of communism, the cold war and corrupt socialist dictatorships and as a result, are relatively more skeptical and dismissive of socialistic ideals while younger voters haven't necessarily lived through any of those experiences, so are far more open and welcoming of socialist policies and ideals.
It'll be interesting to see if youth perceptions of socialism shift towards the older generation's over time or whether they hold true. I'm inclined to believe the latter though, as anti-capitalist sentiment only seems to be gaining traction as the years pass.
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The youth is always more liberal than the previous generation, imo. But as they age they become more conservative.
I think the country will definitely move towards more liberal attitudes but I strongly doubt socialism will ever become an accepted ideology. I mean, we're still debating the legitimacy of Roe v. Wade!
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Member Since: 12/7/2011
Posts: 18,969
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Quote:
Originally posted by heckinglovato
My favorite economic system would definitely be a smart of combination of capitalism and socialism. A competitive economy and market in which there's reasonable control by the government to assure customer and employee protection. Also, expanding social programs that ensure all members and groups of society are thriving.
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This.
Trump and Hillary's moderate views are perfect for this. I've said a million times before, that a perfect candidate would have to have Trump's economic and immigration policies and everything else with Hillary's, which includes social rights, etc...
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Member Since: 6/20/2012
Posts: 8,593
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Quote:
Originally posted by nnnnnn
This is alarming and scary. But history proves time and time again, capitalism will be here to stay. If Karl Marx didn't make it happen, I doubt Sanders will.
Young Americans need to be more educated with the negative effects of destroying capitalistic establishment.
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Capitalism also consistently shifts power away from the working class, undermines minorities, expands monopoly power, creates social division, creates bust cycles, etc.
Having different preferences to economic systems is fine. People don't have to accompany capitalism like sheep, and you don't need to be "more educated" if you happen to be a believer in socialism. This is all ********.
But I'm sure Donald Trump would a great champion of your capitalist beliefs, maybe this is why he's one of the people you admittedly wouldn't mind seeing as president.
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Member Since: 3/3/2011
Posts: 4,231
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The degree of wealth redistribution Bernie wants scares me.
Socialism is such a broad term; a lot of what Hillary and the Dem establishment advocate for could be regarded as socialism in the broadest sense.
The repulsion of the word obviously stems from Cold War era attitudes, which is why people that support liberal/progressive politics shy away from it.
I concede that the biggest success of Bernie's campaign is making socialism more palatable, although a lot of people probably don't know that what they've been supporting for a while is a variant of socialism.
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Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 27,856
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Quote:
Originally posted by nnnnnn
This is alarming and scary. But history proves time and time again, capitalism will be here to stay. If Karl Marx didn't make it happen, I doubt Sanders will.
Young Americans need to be more educated with the negative effects of destroying capitalistic establishment.
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Tbh I think the opposite is true.
We need more Americans (and people in the world) to be more educated around the negative effects of a purely capitalist society that doesn't have a government to keep the system in check. I'm all for free markets and capitalism; as ultimately it's by far the greatest driver of innovation and society in general, however we need to acknowledge that an incorrectly checked capitalist system will always tend toward concentrations of wealth amongst small numbers of people (i.e. inequality) and so we need to ensure we have measures in place to prevent the concentration of wealth from being too skewed towards the top.. and I'd argue we're at that point right now not just in the US, but in many countries around the world.
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Member Since: 8/20/2011
Posts: 12,590
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Bernie supporter crying it is rigged every minute that he loses sound exactly like Trump right now. Also did everyone forget Obama (who was a much better/stronger candidate) lost to Hillary in NY as well. People need to have several seats. There was no bigger underdog than Obama being virtually unknown. At the end of the day, Bernie is running a blame game campaign which is why he is losing. He has potential but just pointing the finger at Wall Street and the establishment is not going to cut it. Obama's message was a lot stronger and when he lost, he didn't cry fraud or it being rigged even though he had a lot against him.
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