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Discussion: U.S. Election 2016: Primary Season
Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 43,331
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Bernie would most definitely not going to implement continuations of Obama's policies as much as Hillary would. Whether that's a good thing or not depends on your personal views.
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ATRL Senior Member
Member Since: 3/22/2012
Posts: 53,769
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Quote:
Originally posted by Marvin
You don't like Bernie or liberals, we get it
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Mischaracterizing and dismissing
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Member Since: 5/12/2012
Posts: 7,989
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Quote:
Originally posted by Marvin
Hillary definitely has more experience and that's great but for me I don't think she's the right candidate. Outside of her controversies she has changed her position on way too many things. Just in the batch of emails today, she was advocating for more free trade agreements even though she said she's against them.
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Please... Bernie has flipped on PLENTY of issues... Hillary just simply can't attack him too much because it's the primary, and Republicans are only worried about Hillary... 
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Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 10,242
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Quote:
Originally posted by Marvin
What is he getting rid of?
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He will destroy Obamacare! and replace it with a single-payer system that won't screw over the middle class like Obamacare does, but let's not mention that
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Member Since: 1/20/2012
Posts: 27,830
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Quote:
Originally posted by brianc33616
The people counting the votes started breaking laws by counting the votes in private, an unprecedented move by even the corrupted GOP. Paul had substantially more votes than what caucus vote counters reported. In Maine, the GOP Chairman favoring Romney in the Primary closed his polls that day for a snowstorm that didn't happen because Paul was popular in his precinct.
The vote totals reporters by party officials in other precincts also didn't match the actual votes in many other precincts, as vote counters said the Maine GOP recorded vote totals that didn't match the real vote counts. In many precincts, the GOP automatically recorded a zero for Paul even where he won the popular vote. Paul actually won Maine, but the establishment operatives gave the election to Romney. I'm trying to find links but the website only goes back to 2013.
The same will almost certainly happen with Sanders since the establishment operatives are on Clinton's side. The fact BOTH major parties are splitting is good for Americans, unless those other groups breaking off are also prevented from participating in the CPD Debates.
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OMG there were talks about this possibly happening with Bernie 
The establishment will do anything to keep a corrupt system. I really hope people are videotaping everything happen and expose any illegal activities. They'd be finished.
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Member Since: 1/20/2012
Posts: 27,830
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Quote:
Originally posted by Bloo
Please... Bernie has flipped on PLENTY of issues... Hillary just simply can't attack him too much because it's the primary, and Republicans are only worried about Hillary... |
She's been constantly attacking him though
What issues has he flipped on?
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Member Since: 1/20/2012
Posts: 27,830
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Quote:
Originally posted by Retro
Millennials do not have the capacity to fundamentally alter the Congress to be so radically left, especially when not all even support Sanders (or are liberals for that matter).
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Yeah but they could still get rid of the Republican majority, making it much easier to get stuff done.
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Member Since: 8/3/2010
Posts: 71,871
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Quote:
Originally posted by Marvin
What is he getting rid of?
And I was talking less on their actual ideas and more on their message. Obama was about HOPE & CHANGE, YES WE CAN. Bernie is about the same thing. There's a reason why people are showing up in droves for his speeches. He inspires people just like Obama did.
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Obama's biggest legacy and something he will go down in history for is Obamacare. If Bernie implements his single payer health care system (which won't happen but for this example let's say it does) he will literally undo Obamacare and strip Obama of his legacy. He will not be continuing anything Obama has done
And Bernie's change and Revolution is nothing on the scale of Obama. Obama is a once in a generation candidate who really drove up numbers in 2008 because of his wide range of appeal in terms of white/nonwhite, young, middle age, old, etc. Sanders is nice but he's not anywhere close to that
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ATRL Contributor
Member Since: 4/5/2014
Posts: 5,828
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Quote:
Originally posted by hooky
John McCain seems to respect him a lot.
And everyone I know trusts Bernie much more than Hillary. Maybe establishment Democrats trust her more but Independents, third parties, centrists, and Republicans tend to not trust her.
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Are you familiar with the 1968 Democratic Convention in Chicago? That was DNC corruption at its finest, and likely handed that election to Nixon. Not to mention Robert Kennedy, who was NOT backed by the establishment, was killed right after winning one of the major states in the 1968 Democratic Primaries.
In no way am I saying what happened to Kennedy will happen to a candidate this year (and hopefully never again, although George Wallace narrowly survived an assassination attempt four years later that ended his third-party POTUS campaign that was gaining momentum at the time, Wallace spent the rest of his life in a wheelchair). However, studying the 1968 DNC Convention will give you a major insight into how the parties ensure the establishment candidates win the nomination.
The same thing happened at the 1976 RNC Convention, when Reagan almost (and maybe should have) beat Ford, but the GOP Establishment wanted to ensure Ford got the nomination. That also could have cost the GOP the Presidential Election, even though Carter is probably one of the best and nicest people to ever be POTUS (he just wasn't a good president).
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Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 10,242
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Quote:
Originally posted by RatedG²
Obama's biggest legacy and something he will go down in history for is Obamacare. If Bernie implements his single payer health care system (which won't happen but for this example let's say it does) he will literally undo Obamacare and strip Obama of his legacy. He will not be continuing anything Obama has done
And Bernie's change and Revolution is nothing on the scale of Obama. Obama is a once in a generation candidate who really drove up numbers in 2008 because of his wide range of appeal in terms of white/nonwhite, young, middle age, old, etc. Sanders is nice but he's not anywhere close to that
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How is that a bad thing though if single-payer is better? Why keep something that's (in my opinion) inferior just for the sake of keeping a president's legacy?
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ATRL Contributor
Member Since: 4/5/2014
Posts: 5,828
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Quote:
Originally posted by Marvin
She's been constantly attacking him though
What issues has he flipped on? |
Bernie switched from pro-gun rights to pro-gun control. That's the biggest one I can think of. He had an "A" grade from the NRA prior to him starting his POTUS Campaign, and suddenly turned anti guns.
I have to go to bed now, but I'll be back to discuss everything we talked about later. It's 1 am, and I have too much to do in the morning to stay up any later.
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Member Since: 5/12/2012
Posts: 7,989
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Quote:
Originally posted by Marvin
Nope that's incorrect. And that socialism that Americans are scared of is already in effect in the form of military, public school, national parks, and more. They need to get educated.
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That IS true...
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Originally posted by Democratic Socialism and Economic Policy: The Attlee Years, 1945-1951, Norman Thomas Democratic Socialism: a new appraisal or Roy Hattersley's Choose Freedom: The Future of Democratic Socialism
While all tendencies of socialism consider themselves democratic, the term "democratic socialism" is often used to highlight its advocates' high value for democratic processes and political systems and usually to draw contrast to other socialist tendencies they may perceive to be undemocratic in their approach.
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ATRL Senior Member
Member Since: 3/22/2012
Posts: 53,769
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While I understand mentioning the 1968 election, I don't think Robert Kennedy's assassination had anything to do with the establishment or that sort of thing, and I believe he would have won both the nomination and the election.
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Member Since: 1/20/2012
Posts: 27,830
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Quote:
Originally posted by RatedG²
Obama's biggest legacy and something he will go down in history for is Obamacare. If Bernie implements his single payer health care system (which won't happen but for this example let's say it does) he will literally undo Obamacare and strip Obama of his legacy. He will not be continuing anything Obama has done
And Bernie's change and Revolution is nothing on the scale of Obama. Obama is a once in a generation candidate who really drove up numbers in 2008 because of his wide range of appeal in terms of white/nonwhite, young, middle age, old, etc. Sanders is nice but he's not anywhere close to that
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Well single-payer is smarter so 
Obama really was a great candidate but in the end could not accomplish what he wanted to do because of Congress. This won't happen again with Bernie, I just know it.
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Member Since: 8/3/2010
Posts: 71,871
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Quote:
Originally posted by hooky
How is that a bad thing though if single-payer is better? Why keep something that's (in my opinion) inferior just for the sake of keeping a president's legacy?
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Because Bernie will never get his system passed. So instead of ripping apart Obamacare and trying to introduce something that will not work at all, it's much easier to just work on Obamacare and fix the cracks. The millions helped with Obamacare would agree and don't want to be thrown back into limbo which will not be solved with a Sanders presidency
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Member Since: 8/3/2010
Posts: 71,871
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Quote:
Originally posted by Marvin
Well single-payer is smarter so
Obama really was a great candidate but in the end could not accomplish what he wanted to do because of Congress. This won't happen again with Bernie, I just know it. |
It'll be worst. No republican will want to work with a socialist. No democrat would want to work with him either after being alienated as establishment. If there are any democrats in btw. He would have likely killed off any viable democrats in red or purple states anyway
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Member Since: 8/19/2013
Posts: 1,425
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Tomorrow is day of my caucus. It's going to be an interesting day, to say the least.
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Member Since: 8/3/2010
Posts: 71,871
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Quote:
Originally posted by Martyr Of Fame
Tomorrow is day of my caucus. It's going to be an interesting day, to say the least.
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Hope you have fun.
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Member Since: 1/20/2012
Posts: 27,830
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Quote:
Originally posted by RatedG²
Because Bernie will never get his system passed. So instead of ripping apart Obamacare and trying to introduce something that will not work at all, it's much easier to just work on Obamacare and fix the cracks. The millions helped with Obamacare would agree and don't want to be thrown back into limbo which will not be solved with a Sanders presidency
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And the millions it didn't help would disagree... Obamacare was good but we can and should want more. Obamacare will not solve the problem, no matter how much they try to fix it.
Quote:
Originally posted by RatedG²
It'll be worst. No republican will want to work with a socialist. No democrat would want to work with him either after being alienated as establishment. If there are any democrats in btw. He would have likely killed off any viable democrats in red or purple states anyway
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Not a socialist. And if democrats are that childish then we deserve to continually fall in all worldwide rankings
People have to stop getting so caught up in party titles. It's literally ruining the country 
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Member Since: 5/12/2012
Posts: 7,989
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Quote:
Originally posted by Marvin
She's been constantly attacking him though |
You think Hillary pointing out weaknesses in his policies is an "attack"?? 
If Bernie gets nominated, you're gonna flip during the GE when the Republicans have field day with him.
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What issues has he flipped on?
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Here are some big ones: - Same sex marriage (in 1982 he said that marriage was between a man and a woman, in 2006 he believed in civil unions which is what Hillary believed in 2007).
- Flipped on guns which is a major issue. The NRA even helped him get elected as Senator (IIRC), he also voted against the Brady Bill 5 times.
- Voted against the Iraq War in 2002, then voted to provide additional funding for that war and Afghanistan in 2003. He also refused to oppose the Afghan War in 2001.
- Speaks against toxic byproduct in 2016, but sponsored a bill in 1998 to dump Vermont's nuclear waste in Sierra Blana, TX.
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