[SHICD]

As for my opinion, people will judge if they have to ****ing pay or not. Like it's a private service and you really don't have to do **** for anyone if you don't want to. this is a ridiculous amount of money for anyone.

Some of you are just...
Tragic

[Chucko]

Originally posted by Newt

The answer to your question is entirely in the semantics of the matter. The issue with matters of semantics is that too many people want the easy, surface answers to their question and won't put in the time to draw out the implications.

A business should have the right to decline creating anything they don't want to create, similar to a Jewish diner choosing not to serve non-kosher items or the like. This, is not a parallel situation. This business is declining the creation of an item BECAUSE the couple is homosexual. Those are two entirely different scenarios and people need to understand that. The second implies discrimination eg. if the couple weren't gay, there isn't a problem.

If a gay couple desires your business to create a huge website and you decline their request because you don't have the time or you are not interested, you did nothing deplorable. You are not acting in a manner that is consistent with discrimination. If you are refusing the request because they're a gay couple, then yes, you should be fined. Two different situations.

I probably didn't make my point clear. The couple could just say I declined them because they are gay. It would be their word against mine. I would have no recourse but to pay the stupid fine or I could spend a million dollars fighting it in court. I might be able to bury them in lawyer bills unless they have more money than I do.

[Feather]

Originally posted by Goosey

Pft I am on the side of the family here, they didn't want to bake the cake, well tough, the lesbians could just go to another bakery, big whoop it should have been a $50 fine TOPS.

I've worked at places where my managers were racist but despite them being racist, business is business. If someone is going to spend $25,000 at your store, you're not going to deny them because of their race, sexual orientation or religion.

However, the fact that the owners straight up rejected them and refused to bake a gay wedding cake is pretty outrageous.

[MrDeeds]

If you go to their website, it's obvious they are Christians.
So these heartless (and obviously soon to be divorced) women contacted them on purpose knowing what it was coming.

It's all premiditated hate & bitterness against Christians, smh.

[rivers]

Originally posted by Goosey

Nope they don't want to support a gay marriage, it goes against their religious and political views it's the same as if a Muslim bakery was asked to make a cake for some unbelievers' Christmas celebrations. They shouldn't have to if they don't want to.

Then they shouldn't open up a business in the first place if they don't want to provide for certain customers. Maybe they should have called it "Christian Straights Bakery" so they only get straight customers if their panties are in such a ****ing twist over a gay couple

Originally posted by MrDeeds

If you go to their website, it's obvious they are Christians.
So these heartless (and obviously soon to be divorced) women contacted them on purpose knowing what it was coming.

It's all premiditated hate & bitterness against Christians, smh.

Maybe the gay couple are Christian

[RudeBoyy]

Originally posted by rivers

Then they shouldn't open up a business in the first place if they don't want to provide for certain customers. Maybe they should have called it "Christian Straights Bakery" so they only get straight customers if their panties are in such a ****ing twist over a gay couple

Lol, the segregation is real. 'Heterosexual Followers of Christ who have never ad sex before marriage, been divorced, had oral, anal and will never cheat Bakery" would better fit their religion though...

[rivers]

Originally posted by RudeBoyy

Lol, the segregation is real. 'Heterosexual Followers of Christ who have never ad sex before marriage, been divorced, had oral, anal and will never cheat Bakery" would better fit their religion though...

Right? Their business is basically this but they don't have a sign on their building. They are segregating customers and anybody with good sense knows that is not right.

[Newt]

Originally posted by Chucko

Generally when people run their business badly the natural process of things will weed them out. People will spread the word that the business is not respectful or tactful, to use your words, and they will suffer for it.

The government should not intervene in private business. Cases like this create a slippery slope opening the door for people to target a business that they don't like.

Maybe I'm jaded but I don't trust people anymore than I can throw them. People get away with awful **** all the time; there needs to be a system in place, and the government is that system.

The government already intervenes in private businesses, i'd argue things would be worse if people could do whatever they wanted.

Originally posted by Chucko

I probably didn't make my point clear. The couple could just say I declined them because they are gay. It would be their word against mine. I would have no recourse but to pay the stupid fine or I could spend a million dollars fighting it in court. I might be able to bury them in lawyer bills unless they have more money than I do.

I'm more concerned with talking about the social issues, not the political aspect. Politics are flawed and messy, you're right. None of that invalidates what I already said.

[Miss Frizzle]

Originally posted by rivers

Then they shouldn't open up a business in the first place if they don't want to provide for certain customers. Maybe they should have called it "Christian Straights Bakery" so they only get straight customers if their panties are in such a ****ing twist over a gay couple



Maybe the gay couple are Christian

lets be very clear: if you are actively and openly and proudly engaging in homosexuality, or ANY sin, you are not a Christian because you are willingly placing yourself out of God's will. How can we say we are a Christian and willingly go against what God tells us not to do? I struggle with this myself, but Jesus forgives when you truly mean it and turn from your sins.

Jesus, who is God our Creator, said it best Himself

"Anyone who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me." John 14:44 NIV

If you are engaging in homosexuality, you are not obeying God which means you do not truly love Him. These ladies are not Christians.

God bless

[Newt]

Originally posted by Miss Frizzle

lets be very clear: if you are actively and openly and proudly engaging in homosexuality, or ANY sin, you are not a Christian because you are willingly placing yourself out of God's will.

Jesus, who is God our Creator, said it best Himself

"Anyone who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me." John 14:44 NIV

If you are engaging in homosexuality, you are not obeying God which means you do not truly love Him

God bless

[Miss Frizzle]

Originally posted by Newt

Feel free to contribute more to the conversation than a simple, harmless and pointless picture.

[rivers]

Originally posted by Miss Frizzle

lets be very clear: if you are actively and openly and proudly engaging in homosexuality, or ANY sin, you are not a Christian because you are willingly placing yourself out of God's will.

Jesus, who is God our Creator, said it best Himself

"Anyone who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me." John 14:44 NIV

If you are engaging in homosexuality, you are not obeying God which means you do not truly love Him

God bless

A believer in Jesus Christ is a Christian. A gay person can believe in Jesus and the Bible, therefore they are a Christian. I guess they won't take my order because I like to eat shellfish. That's a sin in the bible.

What do you say about this then? It's no different.

Southern preachers and slave owners believed the many references in the Bible permitting and regulating slavery (well over 100 verses), in both the Old and the New Testaments, were clear evidence that the institution was a part of God’s social and moral order.

http://www.faithstreet.com/onfaith/2...le-wrong/15775

[Newt]

Originally posted by Miss Frizzle

Feel free to contribute more to the conversation than a simple, harmless and pointless picture.

Nah, that pretty much summarizes my feelings about your post.

Now that I'm remembering, your post sorta reminds me of the upper class folk in the colonies that disapproved of the first Great Awakening, circa the 1740's-50's. Concerned with the heavy ties between religion and social standing, in addition to the idea that religion for the masses (by preaching a personal investment in salvation) was a farce for the weak, poor and unfit. Very elitist

[Chucko]

Originally posted by Newt

Maybe I'm jaded but I don't trust people anymore than I can throw them. People get away with awful **** all the time; there needs to be a system in place, and the government is that system.

The government already intervenes in private businesses, i'd argue things would be worse if people could do whatever they wanted.

Yes they do with regulations and codes that are onerous. I'm not full on Libertarian when it comes to government I know there needs to be some oversight.

I'm more concerned with talking about the social issues, not the political aspect. Politics are flawed and messy, you're right. None of that invalidates what I already said.

None of it invalidates what I said either. I'm caught in the middle, I am very pro-business and I am socially liberal and they clash sometimes and I need to take a side based on common sense and experience and my senses are telling me this couple was looking for trouble.

[Miss Frizzle]

Originally posted by rivers

A believer in Jesus Christ is a Christian. A gay person can believe in Jesus and the Bible, therefore they are a Christian. I guess they won't take my order because I like to eat shellfish. That's a sin in the bible.

What do you say about this then? It's no different.

http://www.faithstreet.com/onfaith/2...le-wrong/15775

if you're an active and proud homosexual, how can you believe in Jesus Christ, who WILLINGLY died on the cross for the forgiveness of homosexuality, and every other sin of every human being on this planet; past, present and future. You believe in God, who condemns what you do, but you don't stop doing it, even though you say you believe in Him. That doesn't make sense. So it's not correct.

"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.

Homosexuality is not in God's will, just like any other sin, so a homosexual or any other sinner who does not turn from their sin can not enter Heaven. Straight like that

In regards to shellfish, here is what Jesus has to say in regards to the old laws and whether or not eating shellfish and other stuff banned in Jewish law. Again, THESE ARE GOD'S WORDS DIRECTLY FROM HIS OWN MOUTH

Then Jesus called to the crowd to come and hear. “All of you listen,” he said, “and try to understand. It’s not what goes into your body that defiles you; you are defiled by what comes from your heart. ”

Then Jesus went into a house to get away from the crowd, and his disciples asked him what he meant by the parable he had just used. “Don’t you understand either?” he asked. “Can’t you see that the food you put into your body cannot defile you? Food doesn’t go into your heart, but only passes through the stomach and then goes into the sewer.” And then he added, “It is what comes from inside that defiles you. For from within, out of a person’s heart, come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery, greed, wickedness, deceit, lustful desires, envy, slander, pride, and foolishness. All these vile things come from within; they are what defile you.”

(*Mark‬ *7‬:*6-7, 14-15, 17-23‬ NLT)

check this out on slavery
http://www.godandscience.org/apologe...ery_bible.html
Very thorough and Biblical.

Humans and Satan have been twisting and manipulating the Word of God since the beginning of time. Satan did it. Eve did it by saying "we also shouldn't touch the fruit" to Satan when he was trying to tempt her to eat the fruit. Just because someone says "GOD SAYS ITs ok" does not mean God says its okay. You have to to first have the gift of The Holy Spirit, which is the Spirit of God, to truly discern what The Bible says. You can't just pick 1 verse like you just did(about shellfish) and take it out of context and try to apply to what YOU want to. That's satanic and ungodly.

Hope I made sense and I hope you are a Christian. If anyone has questions or would like to chat, please PM me

God bless

[Miss Frizzle]

Originally posted by Newt

Nah, that pretty much summarizes my feelings about your post.

Now that I'm remembering, your post sorta reminds me of the upper class folk in the colonies that disapproved of the first Great Awakening, circa the 1740's-50's. Concerned with the heavy ties between religion and social standing, in addition to the idea that religion for the masses (by preaching a personal investment in salvation) was a farce for the weak, poor and unfit. Very elitist

I'm sorry but is any of that in The Bible? I was quoting The Bible and you started posting pictures and going off topic. Maybe your reply wasn't meant for me.

[rivers]

Originally posted by Miss Frizzle

if you're an active and proud homosexual, how can you believe in Jesus Christ, who WILLINGLY died on the cross for the forgiveness of homosexuality, and every other sin of every human being on this planet; past, present and future. You believe in God, who condemns what you do, but you don't stop doing it, even though you say you believe in Him. That doesn't make sense. So it's not correct.



Homosexuality is not in God's will, just like any other sin, so a homosexual or any other sinner who does not turn from their sin can not enter Heaven. Straight like that

In regards to shellfish, here is what Jesus has to say in regards to the old laws and whether or not eating shellfish and other stuff banned in Jewish law. Again, THESE ARE GOD'S WORDS DIRECTLY FROM HIS OWN MOUTH



(*Mark‬ *7‬:*6-7, 14-15, 17-23‬ NLT)

check this out on slavery
http://www.godandscience.org/apologe...ery_bible.html
Very thorough and Biblical.

Humans and Satan have been twisting and manipulating the Word of God since the beginning of time. Satan did it. Eve did it by saying "we also shouldn't touch the fruit" to Satan when he was trying to tempt her to eat the fruit. Just because someone says "GOD SAYS ITs ok" does not mean God says its okay. You have to to first have the gift of The Holy Spirit, which is the Spirit of God, to truly discern what The Bible says. You can't just pick 1 verse like you just did(about shellfish) and take it out of context and try to apply to what YOU want to. That's satanic and ungodly.

Hope I made sense and I hope you are a Christian. If anyone has questions or would like to chat, please PM me

God bless

No you don't make sense. We can discuss the Bible and tons and tons of verses all we want but I'll try to keep this short and simple to the topic of the thread. People shouldn't pick out the homosexuality verses and hate on people because of it by your definitions. I live in Utah hunny, I know the manipulations Mormons try to use to dismiss gay people. They want to use freedom of religion as an excuse to deny them yet they claim they are good Christian people who accept everyone. Religion should not be an excuse to reject someone because they don't agree with them. A good Christian views everyone as an equal. A good Christian would do anything to help out their neighbor, regardless of religion, gender, race or sexual orientation. The owners of the bakery are not Christians. They can disagree with homosexuality all they want but it's childish not to make a cake for a couple who they will a) most likely not see again and b) not affect their marriage in anyway. You better take a seat in your bus Ms Frizzle.

[Miss Frizzle]

Originally posted by rivers

No you don't make sense. We can discuss the Bible and tons and tons of verses all we want but I'll try to keep this short and simple to the topic of the thread. People shouldn't pick out the homosexuality verses and hate on people because of it by your definitions. I live in Utah hunny, I know the manipulations Mormons try to use to dismiss gay people. They want to use freedom of religion as an excuse to deny them yet they claim they are good Christian people who accept everyone. Religion should not be an excuse to reject someone because they don't agree with them. A good Christian views everyone as an equal. A good Christian would do anything to help out their neighbor, regardless of religion, gender, race or sexual orientation. The owners of the bakery are not Christians. They can disagree with homosexuality all they want but it's childish not to make a cake for a couple who they will a) most likely not see again and b) not affect their marriage in anyway. You better take a seat in your bus Ms Frizzle.

Looks like you didn't get the answers you wanted because you changed your tune really quickly when The Scripture corrected you

Stores reject and refuse business. it's just part of business. Nobody wants to have to do it. The issue here, is that people are offended and angry because it was a lesbian couple, and we all know that lesbians and homosexuals in America are preciously and politically protected. a movie theatre I used to work at back in the day, had it written in their policy that they have the right to revoke a ticket for any reason at any time and refund the momey. If you don't like a policy, DONT SHOP THERE!

PS Mormons are not Christians. Are you Mormon? If you are, that is why The Scripture doesn't make sense to you. You are a false Christian(if you are a Mormon)

[ks_dollar]

Originally posted by Miss Frizzle

a movie theatre I used to work at back in the day, had it written in their policy that they have the right to revoke a ticket for any reason at any time and refund the momey. If you don't like a policy, DONT SHOP THERE!

You seem proud of the fact that homosexual couples could be easily rejected any type of transaction at that movie theatre.

Gay people are protected by anti-discrimination laws in America which prohibit discrimination based on the grounds of somebody's sexuality. The law obviously maintains supremacy over that movie threatre's ignorant policy - should the movie theatre deny service to customers solely because they're gay, then they should be prosecuted as they have broken the law. Just so you're aware - virtually all laws in America have been implement to ensure its people are righteously protected; that includes the anti-discrimination legislation.

The bakery owner disobeyed a vital legislation (anti-discrimination laws) thus was/will be punished accordingly. From a secular perspective, being fined for denying someone's basic rights (on the grounds of their sexuality) to your service is unacceptable.

This isn't about the Bible. We understand strongly devoted Christians would have mixed feels about the whole situation. America IS a SECULAR SOCIETY, however, so arguing that it should be acceptable to deny gay people to service (like in similar situations in the OP), for religious reasons is pretty irrelevant in this environment.

[rivers]

Originally posted by Miss Frizzle

why did you bring up The Bible, but change your tune when I explained it to you? ��

Stores reject and refuse business. it's just part of business. Nobody wants to have to do it. The issue here, is that people are offended and angry because it was a lesbian couple, and we all know that lesbians and homosexuals in America are preciously and politically protected. a movie theatre I used to work at back in the day, had it written in their policy that they have the right to revoke a ticket for any reason at any time and refund the momey. If you don't like a policy, DONT SHOP THERE!

PS Mormons are not Christians

and we all know that lesbians and homosexuals in America

Policies based off of hate though? That's just wrong. Period. Stores who refuse business because they don't like what the lesbian couple do in the bedroom are sooooo immature and don't deserve to own a business in the first place. Those are horrible business ethics. I bet those bakery owners would have gladly helped them if they didn't know they were gay. But now they're paying for their actions deservedly so.

Mormons believe homosexuality is a sin. They're Christians!!1!1


I'm surprised someone like you is on a site like ATRL. You aren't changing anyone's mind


Edit:

PS Mormons are not Christians. Are you Mormon? If you are, that is why The Scripture doesn't make sense to you. You are a false Christian(if you are a Mormon)

Why are you asking me this when I just dragged Mormons to the pits in my previous post.