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Discussion: #BlackDon'tCrack (Unless it's Chapped)
Member Since: 11/28/2011
Posts: 27,495
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Quote:
Originally posted by BlueTimberwolf
The brain counts for biology too right? Doesn't it care about consent?
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That depends on the person, clearly.
Quote:
Originally posted by BlueTimberwolf
Dressing a certain way =/= leaving valuable items in plain view. Is there also a biological urge to steal?
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That wasn't necessarily the (reasonable) precaution I was going for but they are not equal how? How is leaving your phone on your seat in plain sight any more of invitation to leaving your **** and ass in plain sight? 
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Member Since: 12/4/2010
Posts: 37,894
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Quote:
Originally posted by Maiko
I thought they took precautions because they don't want to get raped or attacked by some disgusting guy in the first place,
not because of what the judicial system says.
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Well not just the judicial system but society in general.
They take precautions because if they don't and something happens, society deems it their fault.
Quote:
Originally posted by Javan
The point has been put to me before that we advise people to take precautions (within reason) to prevent other crimes but we have different attitudes towards rape. Like it would be acceptable for someone to advise you not leave expensive items in plain view within your car, otherwise you may be robbed. That wouldn't be deemed as offensive. But it would be offensive to advise a woman regarding certain precautions. That would be victim blaming. Some find that hypocritical. What do you think?  |
If I leave my laptop on my car seat and pop into the local Wal*Mart, and I come back to find my **** jacked, I'm not blamed, I'm not shamed, and I'm not made to feel like I deserved this. I don't have any hesitation reporting this incident to the authorities, and when I do, the people in power don't try to turn the blame around on me in an attempt to silence me. I am aways painted as the victim in the case, and rightfully so. Society attacks the offender far more harshly than me for leaving my belongings visible.
Sexual assault just isn't comparable lol. As a man, I should see a woman dressed sexily and have absolutely no urge to rape her. As a human, I should see an inebriated woman and want to help her rather than take advantage of her.
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Member Since: 11/28/2011
Posts: 27,495
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Quote:
Originally posted by Maiko
But let me tell you... I don't know how much you date, but most women are not complaining about the way things are in the construct  |
Right. I was debated with my mom about these things all the time, and she convinced me that sexism aint all that bad 
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Member Since: 6/10/2011
Posts: 12,738
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Quote:
Originally posted by Javan
The point has been put to me before that we advise people to take precautions (within reason) to prevent other crimes but we have different attitudes towards rape. Like it would be acceptable for someone to advise you not leave expensive items in plain view within your car, otherwise you may be robbed. That wouldn't be deemed as offensive. But it would be offensive to advise a woman regarding certain precautions. That would be victim blaming. Some find that hypocritical. What do you think? |
That is victim-blaming IMHO. We're talking about actual living human beings and women should not have to change what they wear just because it might increase their chances of rape. A rapist will prey on anyone, regardless of how they're dressed. Instead of telling women to cover up, we should be emphasizing that less clothing does not mean a woman is "game" to get raped.
Do my chances of getting robbed or having my identity stolen go up when I carry a wallet in my pocket? Don't tell me not to carry a wallet, tell people not to steal other's wallets! Likewise, don't rape women!
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Member Since: 8/17/2013
Posts: 19,066
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Quote:
Originally posted by Javan
That depends on the person, clearly.
That wasn't necessarily the (reasonable) precaution I was going for but they are not equal how? How is leaving your phone on your seat in plain sight any more of invitation to leaving your **** and ass in plain sight? |
If it it depends on the person, we can't say that rape is an excusable offence then, or that it's uncontrollable.
Maybe they are the same, but you should be able to do both with the reasonable expectation that others don't steal/rape you/
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Member Since: 11/28/2011
Posts: 27,495
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Quote:
Originally posted by Doc
Well not just the judicial system but society in general.
They take precautions because if they don't and something happens, society deems it their fault.
If I leave my laptop on my car seat and pop into the local Wal*Mart, and I come back to find my **** jacked, I'm not blamed, I'm not shamed, and I'm not made to feel like I deserved this. I don't have any hesitation reporting this incident to the authorities, and when I do, the people in power don't try to turn the blame around on me in an attempt to silence me. I am aways painted as the victim in the case, and rightfully so. Society attacks the offender far more harshly than me for leaving my belongings visible.
Sexual assault just isn't comparable lol. As a man, I should see a woman dressed sexily and have absolutely no urge to rape her. As a human, I should see an inebriated woman and want to help her rather than take advantage of her.
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But I'm sure you friend would say don't do that next time! What if you leave your door unlocked and you are robbed? No one is gonna say "you should have locked it"? I don't think so.
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Banned
Member Since: 4/13/2011
Posts: 18,738
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Quote:
Originally posted by KareBear
All men have the ability to control their urges. If they haven't learned then society has taught them wrong. Its not like all men are just out in the wild(public) and get this urge to rape a girl. Most rapes happen with someone you know
Which women aren't complaining? What are you talking about  |
Women I've dated and speak to on the regular. They all generally like to protected, they like a man to make them feel "safe" and "comfortable", and all of these things that I feel have a biological basis. No ATRL emoticon necessary. This is vastly a generalization but I do feel that it is the consensus.
I'm not gay by the way, and my about me here has never said that. Although do date guys.
Quote:
Originally posted by Javan
Right. I was debated with my mom about these things all the time, and she convinced me that sexism aint all that bad |
We were talking about the feminist movement in the office one day and one of the artists were so annoyed. She was like, "Why are these women complaining. Surely staying home all day while your husband brings home the money isn't that bad, hell I wish I had it."
I think so many of these issues get blurred into one, like I mentioned above about society enhancing something natural to a point of a handicap, and what we desire gets confused. It's all so interesting.
But this wine is amazing.
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Member Since: 11/28/2011
Posts: 27,495
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Quote:
Originally posted by MM3
Do my chances of getting robbed or having my identity stolen go up when I carry a wallet in my pocket? Don't tell me not to carry a wallet, tell people not to steal other's wallets! Likewise, don't rape women!
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I said reasonable precautions!!
Quote:
Originally posted by BlueTimberwolf
If it it depends on the person, we can't say that rape is an excusable offence then, or that it's uncontrollable.
Maybe they are the same, but you should be able to do both with the reasonable expectation that others don't steal/rape you/
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All I'm saying is that, consent is at most a man made principle or code of conduct that some may or may not adhere to. It isn't biological.
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Banned
Member Since: 4/13/2011
Posts: 18,738
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Talking with ya'll has made me drink half a bottle and not even realize it. 
but let me go to bed so i can make my AA meeting in the morning.
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ATRL Contributor
Member Since: 2/6/2014
Posts: 32,692
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Member Since: 8/17/2013
Posts: 19,066
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Quote:
Originally posted by Javan
I said reasonable precautions!!
All I'm saying is that, consent is at most a man made principle or code of conduct that some may or may not adhere to. It isn't biological.
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Idk, emotions are biological though. Anger, sadness, guilt. Isn't not wanting to hurt someone also biological?
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Member Since: 6/10/2011
Posts: 12,738
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Quote:
Originally posted by Javan
I said reasonable precautions!!
All I'm saying is that, consent is at most a man made principle or code of conduct that some may or may not adhere to. It isn't biological.
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But that's not reasonable to tell women to be conscious of what they wear just b/c the opposite sex has certain tendencies. "Hmmm should I put on this sexy black dress or not? Will a guy get the urge to rape me if I wear this?"
This is so absurd to me and it's not addressing the people who are actually doing the crime  And I've actually been close to a case of female-on-female sexual assault, so how does this apply to that?
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Member Since: 5/28/2010
Posts: 29,225
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Quote:
Originally posted by Maiko
But let me tell you... I don't know how much you date, but most women are not complaining about the way things are in the construct |
This is the most problematic aspect of it all though. The fact that some women are A-OKAY with this. Like my mother. I can't even. The amount of un-recognized misogyny that women spews everyday is just beyond me. Advocating for change is hard when the victims are a part of the problem as well.
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Member Since: 12/4/2010
Posts: 37,894
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Quote:
Originally posted by Javan
I said reasonable precautions!!
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Telling someone not to carry a wallet is just as unreasonable as telling a girl to leave the Freakum dresses at home.
And along those lines, when a girl wears a Freakum dress and gets assaulted, society says "gyal was asking to get freaked".
Do you tell a man who gets his wallet stolen that he was asking for it by carrying a wallet?
do you?
huh?
do yOU?
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ATRL Contributor
Member Since: 11/5/2011
Posts: 100,491
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I have had one too many tequila sunrises lord help a *****
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Member Since: 9/9/2012
Posts: 59,872
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Doc you my ***** for life if you gave me that Reminder.
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Member Since: 5/4/2012
Posts: 12,811
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Dont save her, she dont wanna be saved
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Member Since: 5/4/2012
Posts: 12,811
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Quote:
Originally posted by Maiko
Talking with ya'll has made me drink half a bottle and not even realize it.
but let me go to bed so i can make my AA meeting in the morning. |
Yellow Tail is the ****, though.
I be drinkin that **** like juice.
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Banned
Member Since: 4/13/2011
Posts: 18,738
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Quote:
Originally posted by Deuces
This is the most problematic aspect of it all though. The fact that some women are A-OKAY with this. Like my mother. I can't even. The amount of un-recognized misogyny that women spews everyday is just beyond me. Advocating for change is hard when the victims are a part of the problem as well. |
I agree, in all situations.
But who are we, as men, to be a represent women regarding these issues?
We cannot feel what women feel?
We do not know what it is, to walk around without a dick hanging from our mid section. Thinking about that alone takes me somewhere else. We can only speak from our perspectives, in my opinion. I want to feel more about the situation and analyze it with emotions instead of logic, but it is difficult. I am working on this.
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Member Since: 2/2/2014
Posts: 6,765
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Quote:
Originally posted by Deuces
This is the most problematic aspect of it all though. The fact that some women are A-OKAY with this. Like my mother. I can't even. The amount of un-recognized misogyny that women spews everyday is just beyond me. Advocating for change is hard when the victims are a part of the problem as well. |
You'll mostly find that within older generations where women didn't have as many rights or opportunities so it shouldnt be surprising. Or with conservatives...
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