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Discussion: Why do atheists celebrate Christmas...
Member Since: 3/27/2012
Posts: 18,963
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Quote:
Originally posted by Cxsey
It was invented as a religious holiday so when atheists celebrate it they're just perpetuating biblical stories which is contradictory lmao
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If Atheists are saying "Remember the reason for the season!" or mentioning religion then it's contradictory… but that's like saying a Christian can't have a Christmas tree because it's a pagan tradition. It's just appropriated culture.
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Member Since: 3/27/2012
Posts: 18,963
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Quote:
Originally posted by fabbriche
The winter solstice falls on December 21 not 25.
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But you can still celebrate it on the 25th?
Anyway, it's been proven that Jesus was not even born on December 25th, thus the entire idea of Christmas is something bigger than just Jesus. It is in itself a mixture of various traditions form different cultures.
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Member Since: 8/19/2013
Posts: 14,942
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No matter how they look at it, it's a Christian/religious celebration. Some people still take it seriously. So yeah, a bit of a contradiction.
But get your gifts.
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Member Since: 7/21/2009
Posts: 6,559
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It's culture to me, not religion.
Plus: I know many christians who don't care about the origin and religious meaning of christmas either.
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Member Since: 8/31/2012
Posts: 13,110
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Quote:
Originally posted by AHemsworth
No matter how they look at it, it's a Christian/religious celebration. Some people still take it seriously. So yeah, a bit of a contradiction.
But get your gifts.
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Quote:
Roman pagans first introduced the holiday of Saturnalia, a week long period of lawlessness celebrated between December 17-25. During this period, Roman courts were closed, and Roman law dictated that no one could be punished for damaging property or injuring people during the weeklong celebration. The festival began when Roman authorities chose “an enemy of the Roman people” to represent the “Lord of Misrule.” Each Roman community selected a victim whom they forced to indulge in food and other physical pleasures throughout the week. At the festival’s conclusion, December 25th, Roman authorities believed they were destroying the forces of darkness by brutally murdering this innocent man or woman.
B. The ancient Greek writer poet and historian Lucian (in his dialogue entitled Saturnalia) describes the festival’s observance in his time. In addition to human sacrifice, he mentions these customs: widespread intoxication; going from house to house while singing naked; rape and other sexual license; and consuming human-shaped biscuits (still produced in some English and most German bakeries during the Christmas season).
C. In the 4th century CE, Christianity imported the Saturnalia festival hoping to take the pagan masses in with it. Christian leaders succeeded in converting to Christianity large numbers of pagans by promising them that they could continue to celebrate the Saturnalia as Christians.[2]
D. The problem was that there was nothing intrinsically Christian about Saturnalia. To remedy this, these Christian leaders named Saturnalia’s concluding day, December 25th, to be Jesus’ birthday.
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Just as early Christians recruited Roman pagans by associating Christmas with the Saturnalia, so too worshippers of the Asheira cult and its offshoots were recruited by the Church sanctioning “Christmas Trees”.[7] Pagans had long worshipped trees in the forest, or brought them into their homes and decorated them, and this observance was adopted and painted with a Christian veneer by the Church.
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Norse mythology recounts how the god Balder was killed using a mistletoe arrow by his rival god Hoder while fighting for the female Nanna. Druid rituals use mistletoe to poison their human sacrificial victim.[8] The Christian custom of “kissing under the mistletoe” is a later synthesis of the sexual license of Saturnalia with the Druidic sacrificial cult.[9]
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n pre-Christian Rome, the emperors compelled their most despised citizens to bring offerings and gifts during the Saturnalia (in December) and Kalends (in January). Later, this ritual expanded to include gift-giving among the general populace. The Catholic Church gave this custom a Christian flavor by re-rooting it in the supposed gift-giving of Saint Nicholas (see below).
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In a bid for pagan adherents in Northern Europe, the Catholic Church adopted the Nicholas cult and taught that he did (and they should) distribute gifts on December 25th instead of December 6th.
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every part of it was stolen 
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Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 1,855
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Member Since: 8/19/2013
Posts: 14,942
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CH...you worked too much for the level of ****s to be given that I have. 0
I'm not changing my opinion hun.
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Member Since: 3/27/2012
Posts: 18,963
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Quote:
Originally posted by AHemsworth
CH...you worked too much for the level of ****s to be given that I have. 0
I'm not changing my opinion hun.
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The overall point is that Christmas, while celebrated for the birth of Christ, it is not rooted in purely Christian traditions.
Thus, an atheist who celebrates Christmas is no more participating in a religious experience no more than a Christian is performing pagan rituals.
It's clearly obvious how ingrained it is in our society. Even Christians lament at how the "reason of the season" has been forgotten or ignored. So an atheist who celebrates is much more participating in tradition than religion. There are plenty of societal functions that are religious in nature or history, like for example, marriage. But atheists still get married. It's silly to expect them to completely cut themselves out of society because of their religion.
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Member Since: 7/23/2010
Posts: 6,705
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Quote:
Originally posted by swissman
But you can still celebrate it on the 25th?
Anyway, it's been proven that Jesus was not even born on December 25th, thus the entire idea of Christmas is something bigger than just Jesus. It is in itself a mixture of various traditions form different cultures.
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Christmas is ultimately about Jesus. No one would be celebrating anything on December 25 had the Catholic Church not adopted it as the birthday of Jesus. Or the celebration would've been moved if Christmas was also moved to another date.
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Member Since: 8/1/2012
Posts: 25,037
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It's just a tradition in Western countries.
I've never heard anyone go to church here anyway lmao
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Member Since: 7/23/2010
Posts: 6,705
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Quote:
Originally posted by TikiMiss
every part of it was stolen |
Certainly individual customs of pagan winter festivals were transferred to Christmas when populations were converted. But these things were Christianized. These cultural elements out of the past have survived and been incorporated into the great tradition of Christmas.
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Member Since: 8/19/2013
Posts: 14,942
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Quote:
Originally posted by swissman
The overall point is that Christmas, while celebrated for the birth of Christ, it is not rooted in purely Christian traditions.
Thus, an atheist who celebrates Christmas is no more participating in a religious experience no more than a Christian is performing pagan rituals.
It's clearly obvious how ingrained it is in our society. Even Christians lament at how the "reason of the season" has been forgotten or ignored. So an atheist who celebrates is much more participating in tradition than religion. There are plenty of societal functions that are religious in nature or history, like for example, marriage. But atheists still get married. It's silly to expect them to completely cut themselves out of society because of their religion.
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No matter what's said about the origins, one fact remains the same. It is regarded as the birth of Christ. It has been this way for a very long times. If it was to meant to be celebrated as something else, we wouldn't celebrate it the same day every year.
My convictions stand unmoved.
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Member Since: 3/27/2012
Posts: 18,963
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Quote:
Originally posted by fabbriche
Certainly individual customs of pagan winter festivals were transferred to Christmas when populations were converted. But these things were Christianized. These cultural elements out of the past have survived and been incorporated into the great tradition of Christmas.
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Very true, but just like society Christianized these pagan traditions, now society has Americanized and commercialized it, so that it is really not about Jesus, otherwise pictures of Jesus would be everywhere instead of Santa and his reindeer.
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Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 11,383
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Quote:
Originally posted by Matthew
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except we don't have a god nor a "spokersperson" so why should we care about what he says or thinks exactly?
his ideas or opinions does not reflect on anyone else's, but whatever makes y'all sleep better thinking you're right, I guess
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Member Since: 3/8/2012
Posts: 39,015
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People celebrate christmas even if there not christian. Its literally become a time to just come together with families and presents 
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Member Since: 3/27/2012
Posts: 18,963
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Quote:
Originally posted by VyktorJonas
except we don't have a god nor a "spokersperson" so why should we care about what he says or thinks exactly?
his ideas or opinions does not reflect on anyone else's, but whatever makes y'all sleep better thinking you're right, I guess |
Well from a historical standpoint it's clear a Jesus did exist. Whether or not he was the son of God is something entirely different.
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Member Since: 7/23/2010
Posts: 6,705
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Quote:
Originally posted by swissman
Very true, but just like society Christianized these pagan traditions, now society has Americanized and commercialized it, so that it is really not about Jesus, otherwise pictures of Jesus would be everywhere instead of Santa and his reindeer.
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Jesus was a gift from God. And Santa Claus brings the gift, and spirt of joy, and hope during Christmas time. So sort of Santa relives what Christmas is about. The true Christmas spirit is still there.
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Member Since: 7/18/2010
Posts: 29,717
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Christmas isn't even about Jesus anymore at all.
It's all about gifts and family.
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Member Since: 3/27/2012
Posts: 18,963
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Quote:
Originally posted by fabbriche
Jesus was a gift from God. And Santa Claus brings the gift, and spirt of joy, and hope during Christmas time. So sort of Santa relives what Christmas is about. The true Christmas spirit is still there.
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Sure, but nobody except for the ultra-religious thinks this way. I went to Catholic schools all my life, was taught about everything to do with Christmas and most people were not thanking Jesus for their presents they were thanking Santa or their parents.
Like I said, if Jesus was really what everyone focused on at Christmas then he would be mentioned a whole lot more in Christmas culture.
Just look at the most popular X-Mas films… they rarely have religion in them. I can only think of a few that do and they are from the 1940s or The Preachers Wife which is a remake of one of those from the 1940s.
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Banned
Member Since: 3/19/2012
Posts: 7,835
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Quote:
Originally posted by swissman
It's just appropriated culture.
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But whatever, there's nothing wrong with "cultural appropriation", imitation is the sincerest form of flattery... if you like something, feel free to "appropriate" it and don't let anyone tell you different!
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