[Lucyyyyyyyyy]

The receipts say Taylor.

[Quietly Trek]

Originally posted by simon

The FACT that you think Aretha's influence impacted only R&B & gospel is the reason I can't have intelligent arguments with people sometimes on ATRL. She changed Rock & Roll and her impact and influence is so great that it has been summersed into every genre.

Beyoncé won a Songwriting award in 2001.

I'm not even going to argue with you anymore about the First Lady point because I don't understand what you are trying to say at all.

In conclusion, Beyoncé's musical impact is far greater than Taylor especially when all it takes is for a hit single to top the charts. Beyoncé is beyond that and general public accepts that. Beyoncé can easily sell out stadiums by herself - she just chooses to do arenas because it is better for her fans. Even One Direction can sell out stadiums.

But Beyoncé is a MUSIC legend and Taylor is not. Her music is not that memorable and her music has not had much influence. Her performance skills are decent at best and her music iconography is lacking. She is just a country teen sensation that sells a lot of records.

Can you tell me what she will be known for in the music industry? What music impact has she made? What makes her stand out as a music artist? What has she done that Shania or Faith hasn't done?

Beyonce is well... BEYONCE!

I never said Aretha Franklin is only known for R&B and gospel. I said she might hold a special place in those genres as the most influential female, but that's not the case outside of those genres. For example, I believe Tina Turner is a much bigger rock legend than Aretha. I'm not saying Aretha didn't impact other genres. You need to chill.

That's cool, but Taylor Swift is still more acclaimed as a songwriter than Beyoncé, and she writes most of her songs on her own. With that said, she is far above and beyond Pitbull and Flo Rida. It's kind of ironic how you were trying to accuse me of knowing very little about Aretha Franklin by incorrectly expanding on a small piece of my statement when you tried to lump Taylor with Pitbull and Flo Rida.

What's there not to understand? Most First Ladies are irrelevant and unimportant, because they didn't bring about change. They were only ever referenced because of their husbands. Michelle Obama's merits outside of the White House are more impressive as I already said, so naming her as someone on Beyoncé's level doesn't really make any difference. It's not true, and it doesn't change anything.

No, Beyoncé cannot sell stadiums like Taylor Swift and One Direction can. Look at the attendance numbers for Beyoncé's arena shows in the US? How many are above 20,000? Taylor sells out stadiums within minutes. Beyoncé and Jay Z couldn't do this, and there were even tickets left over for a few dates. Taylor Swift's stadium shows are all sold out in full capacity usually the day tickets go on sale in the US.

You don't become a legend in eight years, and Beyonce will become a legend, but she isn't one yet. Just because you think Taylor's songs aren't memorable doesn't mean they aren't. I could say the same for Beyoncé, but that doesn't make it true. Taylor is beyond a country act, and that has been proven in this thread!

If I could predict the future, I'd answer the first question. The impact she's made is felt by how large and loyal her fan base is. What is she known for musically? Creating meaningful, acclaimed music that has widespread appeal. She's also continuing to experiment with her sound. I suggest you actually listen to a Taylor Swift album before passing judgement. Her music is different from theirs, which makes her different. Try listening before posting ignorantly...

[Quietly Trek]

Originally posted by KangBey

Nope, the receipts are there and posted, Bey is the 3rd highest grossing female touring artist, you can't spin that to suit your agenda. She will surpass Bey you say, but she hasn't even surpassed Gaga. I'm not even sure if she made the top 5 touring list. And you act as if Bey's touring power will decrease, her touring power increases hugely with each era on a global scale, not just the US. Bey is like Madonna in that regard, so I don't see Taylor surpassing her any time soon, like I mentioned before, she would have to surpass Gaga and Pink first.

I don't know what website you're looking at, but it's a fact that Cher has the third or fourth highest grossing tour by any female artist after adjusting for inflation. Madonna holds the top two spots, Céline holds the third spot, and Cher holds the fourth spot. I'm not referring to total tour gross if that's what you're referring to. Anyway, Taylor will continue to increase her tour grosses, and seeing as she's only 24, it is likely that she will eventually gross more than Beyoncé. Taylor played multiple stadiums in Australia. She's not local by any means. She will increase her appeal in the US and globally.

[-Alfie-]

I will say Beyonce is more well known but as a Beyonce fan I won't pull the "local" card, Taylor is a well known superstar on her own right, she is ridiculously successful and talented. More than most pop stars this day and age. Both Bey and Taylor in 2009 slayed, it would be nice to see them together again.

[TayLord]

Quietly trek

[Nat A]

Overall: debatable
Musically/Sales: Taylor

[KangBey]

Originally posted by Quietly Trek

I don't know what website you're looking at, but it's a fact that Cher has the third or fourth highest grossing tour by any female artist after adjusting for inflation. Madonna holds the top two spots, Céline holds the third spot, and Cher holds the fourth spot. I'm not referring to total tour gross if that's what you're referring to. Anyway, Taylor will continue to increase her tour grosses, and seeing as she's only 24, it is likely that she will eventually gross more than Beyoncé. Taylor played multiple stadiums in Australia. She's not local by any means. She will increase her appeal in the US and globally.

Highest grossing female tours all time Taylor is dead last, like I said, she has jump over many artist to reach Bey.

1. Madonna - Sticky & Sweet: $ 407,713,266
Number of shows: 85
Average attendance: 41,716

2. Madonna - MDNA: $ 305,158,362
Number of shows: 88
Average attendance: 25,140

3. Celine Dion - Taking Chances: $ 279,212,643
Number of shows: 132
Average attendance: 19,696

4. Beyoncé - The Mrs. Carter Show: $ 229,727,960
Number of shows: 132
Average attendance: 15,779

5. Lady Gaga - The Monster Ball: $ 227,400,000
Number of shows: 201
Average attendance: 12,438

6. Cher - Living Proof: The Farewell: $ 220,623,920
Number of shows: 326
Average attendance: 10,800

7. Madonna - Confessions: $ 194,754,447
Number of shows: 60
Average attendance: 20,171

8. P!nk - The Truth About Love: $ 182,937,014
Number of shows: 142
Average attendance: 13,974

9. Lady Gaga - Born This Way Ball: $ 181,100,000
Number of shows: 98
Average attendance: 19,334

10. Taylor Swift - Red: $150,184,971
Number of shows: 86
Average attendance: 19,801

http://atrl.net/forums/showthread.php?t=484212

Top 10 solo female touring acts Taylor didn't crack the top 5.

1. Madonna
$907.6M total gross, 233 shows
Confessions Tour (2006) $194.7M (60 shows)
Sticky and Sweet Tour (2008-09) $407.7M (85 shows)
MDNA Tour (2012) $305.2M (88 shows)

2. Celine Dion
$721.8M total gross
A New Day… Residency (2005-07) $292M
Taking Chances Tour (2008-09) $280.2M (132 shows)
Celine… Residency (2011-2019) $132.6M
Sans Attendre Tour (2013) $17M (9 shows)

3. Beyoncé
$439M total gross, 336 shows
The Beyonce Experience (2007) $90M (96 shows)
I Am… World Tour (2009-10) $119.5M (108 shows)
Mrs. Carter Show World Tour (2013-14) $229.7M (132 shows)

4. Lady Gaga
$425M total gross, 320 shows
The Fame Monster Ball Tour (2009-11) $227.4M (201 shows)
The Born This Way Ball Tour (2012-13) $181.1M (98 shows)
Roseland Residency (2014) $1.52M (7 shows)
Artrave: The Artpop Ball Tour (2014) $14M (14/79 shows)

5. Pink
$380M total gross, 323 shows
Funhouse Tour (2009) $149.3M (151 shows)
Funhouse Summer Carnival (2010) $46.4M (30 shows)
The Truth About Love Tour (2013-14) $184M (142 shows)

6. Taylor Swift
$346M total gross, 302 shows
Fearless Tour (2009-10) $73M (106 shows)
Speak Now World Tour (2011-12) $123.1M (110 shows)
The Red Tour (2013-14) $150.2M (86 shows)

7. Rihanna
$272M total gross, 259 shows
Last Girl on Earth Tour (2010-11) $40M (65 shows)
Loud Tour (2011) $90M (98 shows)
Diamonds World Tour (2013) $141.9M (96 shows)

8. Britney Spears
$219M total gross, 203 shows
The Circus Tour (2009) $131.8M (97 shows)
Femme Fatale Tour (2011) $68.7M (79 shows)
Britney: Piece of Me (2013-2015) $18.3M (27/78 shows)

9. Barbra Streisand
$185.5M total gross (49 shows)
Streisand (2006-07) $119.5M (29 shows)
Barbra Live (2012-13) $66M (20 shows)

10. Cher
$152.5M total gross, 241 shows
Cher at the Coliseum (2008-2011) $97.4M (192 shows)
Dressed to Kill Tour (2014) $55.1M (49/74 shows)

http://atrl.net/forums/showthread.php?t=650329

[Dollas n Diamonds]

The excuses from the Hive are just

"Taylor is white and blonde"

"Country fans are more likely to not pirate music"

"Taylor has a clean image"

Accept that Taylor wins with grace

[Neonika]

beyonce

taylor swift is only famous in texas tbh

[OffTheWall]

Taylor outsold beyonce so I say Taylor

[revel8]

Taylor is the biggest selling artist in the US and has been for the last half decade. We don't have to rely on dodgy mediatraffic receipts either, the sales figures in the US market are reliable. And no-one can touch Taylor's domination in the US of sales of albums and concert tickets. Taylor played quite a few stadium gigs on her Red Tour in the US and everyone sold out. She will only grow her tickets sales in future tours by adding more and more stadiums to her tours.

Beyonce is massive too though. She did get some help from Destiny's Child though, plus marrying a hugely popular artist like Jay-Z also helps. Beyonce is also clearly a class act as a human being, Taylor fans should not forget Beyonce's kindness at the 2009 VMAs.

To be fair, they will both go down as the top American artists of this part of the 21st Century, along with Eminem. All 3 are very different artists and will be regarded as legendary artists in their own way. I think we can applaud all 3 without attempting to minimise their achievements.

[M!X]

Taylor, poor Hive having to resort to IMPACT while Taylor effortlessly outsells and outgrosses her in every aspect

[Beyy]

Pls call me when Taylor releases a hit as good, iconic and huge Crazy In Love
I have yet to see that happen

[B'Day]

Originally posted by Lethal

Well, lets see

Beyonce has a career that spans almost 20 years. Taylor does not.
Beyonce has 5x more #1's than Taylor.
Beyonce has recieved more awards than Taylor in the US.
Beyonce has more Grammys than Taylor by a large margin.

My vote is for Beyonce although Taylor is also very successful

.

[RickyH.]

I laughed my *** all the way to the end of this thread reading comments stating such things as "Taylor has impact." You all don't know how the word should be used correctly, much less what it means.

I guess from a SALES point of view, it's Taylor. From a popularity in terms of celebrity figure, it's Beyonce.

[Girlicious]

taylor obviously lol

[rihsus]

easily tay lol

[QueenBLadyG]

They are equal considering their positions. Taylor is a young blonde blue eyed white girl who sings Country-Pop. Beyoncé is an African-American female who blends R&B and Pop. Taylor has the advantage based off of that alone, but Bey holds her own with her ability to sell a very respectful amount of albums and her ability to maintain the constant love and respect by the public. Taylor sells more, is respected and loved as well, but doesn't do performance wise what Bey can.

[simon]

Originally posted by Quietly Trek

You don't become a legend in eight years, and Beyonce will become a legend, but she isn't one yet. Just because you think Taylor's songs aren't memorable doesn't mean they aren't. I could say the same for Beyoncé, but that doesn't make it true. Taylor is beyond a country act, and that has been proven in this thread!

If I could predict the future, I'd answer the first question. The impact she's made is felt by how large and loyal her fan base is. What is she known for musically? Creating meaningful, acclaimed music that has widespread appeal. She's also continuing to experiment with her sound. I suggest you actually listen to a Taylor Swift album before passing judgement. Her music is different from theirs, which makes her different. Try listening before posting ignorantly...

I have listened to "Red" and all of that sounds completely vague. Known for Loyal fanbase? Impact with Meaningful music with widespread appeal? Almost any artist can say that. As stated, her "musical" impact that you say she has Beyonce beat in - is almost non-existent. Taylor is lovely but she has done not done much to inspire or push the music industry. As stated she is just a sweet country teen girl that copied Shania's blueprint and became successful. In terms of music impact and respect, Beyonce has her beat in all forefronts, and Taylor has yet to do anything to surpass that and have yet to create distinctive music brand.

Originally posted by M!X

Taylor, poor Hive having to resort to IMPACT while Taylor effortlessly outsells and outgrosses her in every aspect

The OP says this though...

Originally posted by Toxicity.

so which of these 2 superstars is bigger in the USA? Album sales, single sales, impact, tours, respect etc.

[QueenBLadyG]

Originally posted by Dollas n Diamonds

The excuses from the Hive are just

"Taylor is white and blonde"

"Country fans are more likely to not pirate music"

"Taylor has a clean image"

Accept that Taylor wins with grace

You do realize all three of these points are valid. You must be a fool to try and call them "excuses".