this thread is what it is... a bey stan pressed by the fact that beyonce isnt the voice of a generation. beyonce has sooo many accolades in her belt. why do some of you feel the need to come for others accomplishments. sis legend x has struggled enough in recent years. let her have her 'voice of a generation' title. she indeed deserves it. she is an incredible singer, is she not?
None of the other popgirls has a level of virtuosity or musicianship that comes close to hers.
Her musicianship? Virtuosity? You couldn't be even more wrong. Kelly Clarkson is just as excellent a musician as Beyonce,. Gaga, may not be the better vocalist, but her musicianship SMASHES Beyonce's. Please, don't kid yourself.
The top two vocalists of this generation are Kelly and Beyoncé, in my opinion. Both represent different styles of singing phenomenally: Kelly belting and rock stylings, Beyoncé melismas and R&B stylings.
this thread is what it is... a bey stan pressed by the fact that beyonce isnt the voice of a generation. beyonce has sooo many accolades in her belt. why do some of you feel the need to come for others accomplishments. sis legend x has struggled enough in recent years. let her have her 'voice of a generation' title. she indeed deserves it. she is an incredible singer, is she not?
Okay, it seems this stems from more than just a lack of understanding of music. You're incapable of differentiating fact from opinion. The fact that you just said what you did personifies your ineptitude to the subject matter. That being said, go figure dude lol
facts are based on receipts. I brought one; you brought none. I have no knowledge to prove on this thread since there's nothing to add to the video content. I have asked a question you didn't answer. endconversation/
this thread is what it is... a bey stan pressed by the fact that beyonce isnt the voice of a generation. beyonce has sooo many accolades in her belt. why do some of you feel the need to come for others accomplishments. sis legend x has struggled enough in recent years. let her have her 'voice of a generation' title. she indeed deserves it. she is an incredible singer, is she not?
Her musicianship? Virtuosity? You couldn't be even more wrong. Kelly Clarkson is just as excellent a musician as Beyonce,. Gaga, may not be the better vocalist, but her musicianship SMASHES Beyonce's. Please, don't kid yourself.
Honestly, Lady Gaga has a great voice. I get it, she makes pop music and whatever, but she's done acoustic performances where she really lets her voice shine and I think her voice is incredible. I like it more than Beyoncé's. As for Kelly Clarkson, if you honestly think that Beyoncé is more vocally capable than Kelly Clarkson, you are sadly mistaken. There is no comparing. Very few artists today have a voice as great as Kelly Clarkson's. I don't know if I can name any that are even remotely close to hers. Maybe Demi Lovato's, and again, she has an incredible voice for someone her age. She's always had a remarkably strong voice. That's just a fact. And yes, I put P!nk in there too because I saw her live and the fact that she can do the things she does on stage but still sound just like (if not better than) the record is amazing. She's so good. Her voice is better than Beyoncé's, as well. Don't get me wrong. Beyoncé has a great voice. But there are a lot of artists that are better than hers and I hate that all of her fans think she's the top vocalist of our generation because that couldn't be further from the truth. Top 10? Probably. But no way is she the number-one vocalist of our generation.
I'm not even going to touch the Gaga or DEMI comparisons (they're not even worth the explanation). When compared to Kelly, Beyonce clearly possesses a stronger lower register (in terms of both range and support), stronger and more well supported mid belts (from A4 or what have you, up to around E5), and unquestionably more agility in her runs and ornamentation. Kelly on the other hand has a clearly stronger upper belting range (probably F5-up)... That's one category of a person's voice. Beyonce is a lyric mezzo while Kelly is a lyric or full-lyric soprano, yet Beyonce also has a better head voice in pretty much every aspect, even range (if Kelly was more vocally capable, she as a soprano ought to at least have RANGE over Beyonce, see someone like Lisa Fischer who can do everything Kelly can do better). There is no case Kelly has over Beyonce other than her upper mixed belts, in other words she is NOT more vocally capable in the slightest.
Okay I lied, I'll bite on the rest: Demi is a poor man's Kelly, I could get into why she is a poor vocalist (certainly not top 5 today) if you want, but that can be for a separate post. Gaga has a good voice but has a very small range and is technically inferior to Beyonce in pretty much every category (more easily verifiable as both are mezzos). Pink's tricks are impressive, but have nothing to do with a proper vocal comparison. If you can sing in flight, on a bed of coals or underwater, that does nothing to determine whether you are a better vocalist than someone else; proper technique (ie: a good sense of pitch and placement), resonance, range and agility is what does.
You seem to be confusing "voice" with vocalist. If you think all of those people have a more pleasing tone to your ears, that's fine, but the way you are presenting them (as verifiable facts, rather than subjective preferences) seems to be delving into the more objective field of vocal pedagogy, in which case you are wrong with pretty much every example you have listed.
Quote:
Originally posted by man*****
I cant. She's great but not known for being the best vocalist. She's the whole package but yeah.. yall stop.
This is one of the dumbest common arguments used against Beyonce. Who gives a flying **** what someone is "known" for? The question is about what is, not what people in the GP (who have no knowledge of vocal pedagogy much less a sharp or flat note) perceive to be the case. Yeah, if she sat down like Adele and was marketed as a "pure" singer, while changing nothing at all about her voice or technique, she'd be perceived as more of a "vocalist" rather than a "performer" by people who aren't that familiar with her, but the argument of perception has no place in a discussion where actual receipts are being presented, like in the OP. If you're gonna argue someone is better, post videos of them demonstrating why they are a better vocalist than Beyonce.
She DOES have a great vocal technique, but too much praise sisters. CNN works less than you
And here goes the second. Rolling Stone is a rock-oriented magazine that doesn't give a **** about pop girls or vocal pedagogy. IIRC Barbra Streisand, Patti Labelle, Celine Dion, Lara Fabian, in ADDITION to Beyonce, didn't make then list, while people like Bob Dylan did. I mean, if you really think a list is credible if it places Christina higher than Mariah(not to mention 21 spots ), or Whitney Houston in 34th place () that's on you.
Quote:
Originally posted by 22 Two's
3. OF OUR GENERATION being considered Christina has a way better range but once again I was talkin about the technique & voice control
That's not necessarily accurate. Christina at her peak had a wider range from top to bottom (C3-C7), but it had holes in it, it was never a connected range like say, Mariah's. Not to mention it is far from connected these days. She hasn't been able to properly belt in her mid-upper range for years now, and IIRC she hasn't hit any of the high falsetto notes she once had over Bey since the Stripped tour. I mean, from 2007ish to now, both Christina and Beyonce have the same highest live note (Eb6), and Christina is the one who was supposed to have the wider range/"whistle register" (it was never an authentic whistle register, just a high pushed falsetto), and Beyonce is the one who is a mezzo. Not to mention even in her peak, Christina could never cleanly belt E5-F5s like Beyonce.
Quote:
Originally posted by JaiTina
neither can bey sis
I don't think you know what you're talking about
Quote:
Originally posted by XLR8
Technique is how they use their voice. The voice itself is another story. Beyonce's proficiency with her instrument is at a high degree but the instrument itself is very limited...no she is NOT the voice of this generation. Talk about underwhelming. She isn't the voice of anything, ever.
LOL@people trying (fail) to objectively justify someone as the voice, a subjective phrase. And Beyonce of all people
How so? Enough of this "tone" nonsense, that's the only argument people ever try to use against Beyonce ("it's not unique!!!") when that is entirely subjective. Obviously neither Beyonce nor any pop vocalist is at her level, but it's well documented that plenty of people in the opera world thought Maria Callas had a subjectively "ugly" tone, while still acknowledging her undeniable vocal prowess.
Analyzing her instrument objectively, it has a wide range (3.5 octaves from top to bottom, more than any other current major pop girl other Ariana Grande), ample weight for a lyric voice type, and is extremely agile, matched only probably by Mariah in that regard. The only major pop females who can boast the same thing or better (in effect, "outclassing" her) would be Mariah and Whitney.
You must be one of those people think a raspy voice = soulful and unique, and a higher belt automatically meaning someone is better. The latter is a point of consideration in a vocal comparison, but not the end all be all, like some people (especially Kelly stans) like to imagine. And I actually agree that calling someone (
other than Whitney
) "The Voice of..." anything is a bit dodgy, even the all time great have people who hate their voices and their technical application of said voice.
The Voice of Our Generation is a colloquial phrase for someone who "speaks for" our generation (the youth) through their music. It's less about vocal ability and more about the message that is sung. That's why Christina has had the title since 2002 and even received a bunch of awards CALLED "The voice of our generation". Her last award for that was 2013, it's still her title. She was awarded that tile after Stripped because it's your classic "coming of age" angst ridden/healing album. She's known for songs like Beautiful & Fighter which covered the extremely common themes of low self-esteem and overcoming weakness. Beyonce may obtain this title in the future, but she isn't the picture of damaged goods. She's the picture of empowerment and independence, lots of people in our generation cannot relate.
If we were talking the vocalist of our generation, we'd be talking about people with the best technique. Not pop stars - opera singers. So you can't call someone the Voice of a Generation based on vocal ability unless you have NO idea what true, insanely talented vocalists are capable of. This is why music nuts frown down upon people such as yourselves.
Beyonce PALES in comparison to the world's greatest vocalists. If you were to take the title LITERALLY, the vocalist of our generation would simply be the best opera singer of our generation. This is what real flawless vocalists can do, since the title has been aggressively cheapened in the pop world, I actually think you may not know:
Beyonce holds the crown of the best performer of our generation or maybe the most disciplined vocalist within the commercial singers. But stop trying to make The Voice of our Generation happen. It doesn't mean what you think it means. The general public has it's informal definition and you're the ONLY ones confused. It's been taken already and she may get it in the future... but not right now. Call her the best pop or r&b singer, the best performer, the millenium artist, whatever. Make a new title up. She earned those titles. But you're wasting time on the voice of the generation title.
Her technique is terrible. She strains, lowers her larynx to hit low notes, etc. and had damaged her voice due to using that incorrect, unhealthy technique for so long. While her tone is nice and she posses a lot of vocal talent, she has damaged her natural vocal ability with the that technique of hers, so, nope, she's not worthy of being the voice of this generation, no matter what others "reputable" publications say. And yes, I'm very aware of my fave's vocal ability in case you decide to go off-topic and bring it up.
I'm not even going to touch the Gaga or DEMI comparisons (they're not even worth the explanation). When compared to Kelly, Beyonce clearly possesses a stronger lower register (in terms of both range and support), stronger and more well supported mid belts (from A4 or what have you, up to around E5), and unquestionably more agility in her runs and ornamentation. Kelly on the other hand has a clearly stronger upper belting range (probably F5-up)... That's one category of a person's voice. Beyonce is a lyric mezzo while Kelly is a lyric or full-lyric soprano, yet Beyonce also has a better head voice in pretty much every aspect, even range (if Kelly was more vocally capable, she as a soprano ought to at least have RANGE over Beyonce, see someone like Lisa Fischer who can do everything Kelly can do better). There is no case Kelly has over Beyonce other than her upper mixed belts, in other words she is NOT more vocally capable in the slightest.
Okay I lied, I'll bite on the rest: Demi is a poor man's Kelly, I could get into why she is a poor vocalist (certainly not top 5 today) if you want, but that can be for a separate post. Gaga has a good voice but has a very small range and is technically inferior to Beyonce in pretty much every category (more easily verifiable as both are mezzos). Pink's tricks are impressive, but have nothing to do with a proper vocal comparison. If you can sing in flight, on a bed of coals or underwater, that does nothing to determine whether you are a better vocalist than someone else; proper technique (ie: a good sense of pitch and placement), resonance, range and agility is what does.
You seem to be confusing "voice" with vocalist. If you think all of those people have a more pleasing tone to your ears, that's fine, but the way you are presenting them (as verifiable facts, rather than subjective preferences) seems to be delving into the more objective field of vocal pedagogy, in which case you are wrong with pretty much every example you have listed.
This is one of the dumbest common arguments used against Beyonce. Who gives a flying **** what someone is "known" for? The question is about what is, not what people in the GP (who have no knowledge of vocal pedagogy much less a sharp or flat note) perceive to be the case. Yeah, if she sat down like Adele and was marketed as a "pure" singer, while changing nothing at all about her voice or technique, she'd be perceived as more of a "vocalist" rather than a "performer" by people who aren't that familiar with her, but the argument of perception has no place in a discussion where actual receipts are being presented, like in the OP. If you're gonna argue someone is better, post videos of them demonstrating why they are a better vocalist than Beyonce.
And here goes the second. Rolling Stone is a rock-oriented magazine that doesn't give a **** about pop girls or vocal pedagogy. IIRC Barbra Streisand, Patti Labelle, Celine Dion, Lara Fabian, in ADDITION to Beyonce, didn't make then list, while people like Bob Dylan did. I mean, if you really think a list is credible if it places Christina higher than Mariah(not to mention 21 spots ), or Whitney Houston in 34th place () that's on you.
That's not necessarily accurate. Christina at her peak had a wider range from top to bottom (C3-C7), but it had holes in it, it was never a connected range like say, Mariah's. Not to mention it is far from connected these days. She hasn't been able to properly belt in her mid-upper range for years now, and IIRC she hasn't hit any of the high falsetto notes she once had over Bey since the Stripped tour. I mean, from 2007ish to now, both Christina and Beyonce have the same highest live note (Eb6), and Christina is the one who was supposed to have the wider range/"whistle register" (it was never an authentic whistle register, just a high pushed falsetto), and Beyonce is the one who is a mezzo. Not to mention even in her peak, Christina could never cleanly belt E5-F5s like Beyonce.
I don't think you know what you're talking about
How so? Enough of this "tone" nonsense, that's the only argument people ever try to use against Beyonce ("it's not unique!!!") when that is entirely subjective. Obviously neither Beyonce nor any pop vocalist is at her level, but it's well documented that plenty of people in the opera world thought Maria Callas had a subjectively "ugly" tone, while still acknowledging her undeniable vocal prowess.
Analyzing her instrument objectively, it has a wide range (3.5 octaves from top to bottom, more than any other current major pop girl other Ariana Grande), ample weight for a lyric voice type, and is extremely agile, matched only probably by Mariah in that regard. The only major pop females who can boast the same thing or better (in effect, "outclassing" her) would be Mariah and Whitney.
You must be one of those people think a raspy voice = soulful and unique, and a higher belt automatically meaning someone is better. The latter is a point of consideration in a vocal comparison, but not the end all be all, like some people (especially Kelly stans) like to imagine. And I actually agree that calling someone (
other than Whitney
) "The Voice of..." anything is a bit dodgy, even the all time great have people who hate their voices and their technical application of said voice.
Beyonce's true resonance peaks E5-F5, though. Definitely got a lot of squillo around that region (she is a Lyric voice after all) The rest of the mid register? Mhmmm. She hasn't an upper register so there's nothing to judge. Head voice all the way up to Eb6? Ehhh, lacks the resonance the rest of the others have but let's give her an 'A' for being able to get there. So impressive. Aside from crazy agility, something she's innately endowed, what about that instrument do you consider great? Riddle me that please. Modal range of like what? 2.4 Octaves. I suppose that's impressive to you, right? And what about her texture? Outlandish too, huh?
My opinion, her instrument is very basic. She knows how to use it very well, though.
And no, I'm not one who believes that having a subjectively great tone makes you a voice of a generation vocalist. I'm no Christina stan (no offense to you guys lol)
Also, Demi isn't a Kelly anything. God no lol She has a unique timbre but the way she tries to lower her larynx to sound grown.... And don't get me started on those upper belts, if that's even what they're called lol
But again, she's only the voice to whomever believes she is. Deeming that as an indisputable fact, though? Come on. Talk about a bland instrument...
That's not necessarily accurate. Christina at her peak had a wider range from top to bottom (C3-C7), but it had holes in it, it was never a connected range like say, Mariah's. Not to mention it is far from connected these days. She hasn't been able to properly belt in her mid-upper range for years now, and IIRC she hasn't hit any of the high falsetto notes she once had over Bey since the Stripped tour. I mean, from 2007ish to now, both Christina and Beyonce have the same highest live note (Eb6), and Christina is the one who was supposed to have the wider range/"whistle register" (it was never an authentic whistle register, just a high pushed falsetto), and Beyonce is the one who is a mezzo. Not to mention even in her peak, Christina could never cleanly belt E5-F5s like Beyonce.
educate me that's why I love making thread; you always learn from your sistrens . thank you for enlighten me on this.
My opinion, her instrument is very basic. She knows how to use it very well, though.
And no, I'm not one who believes that having a subjectively great tone makes you a voice of a generation vocalist. I'm no Christina stan (no offense to you guys lol)
Also, Demi isn't a Kelly anything. God no lol She has a unique timbre but the way she tries to lower her larynx to sound grown.... And don't get me started on those upper belts, if that's even what they're called lol
But again, she's only the voice to whomever believes she is. Deeming that as an indisputable fact, though? Come on. Talk about a bland instrument...
THATS WHAT WE ACTUALLY ABOUT endthread/ you turning around the same point
edit: with all you said; you came back with the "her instrument is basic" argument. it's starting (...) to be embarassing.
...embarrassing? Funny, 'cause I clearly remember someone idiotically declaring popularity is a testament to talent (vocally). I guess by that logic Madonna is factually speaking The Voice lol
Take my advice and stop it, now
I find the Violin to be very basic of the stringed instruments, that doesn't mean it can be played well. Regardless of how well it's played won't take away from the fact that it's a basic instrument. That's my personal opinion.
What's embarrassing is you using someone else's opinion as a "receipt" to dignify your very subjective view as a fact. Whatever the voice is to you is just that. To you, not in general. Your basis isn't even yours
...embarrassing? Funny, 'cause I clearly remember someone idiotically declaring popularity is a testament to talent (vocally). I guess by that logic Madonna is factually speaking The Voice lol
Take my advice and stop it, now
I find the Violin to be very basic of the stringed instruments, that doesn't mean it can be played well. Regardless of how well it's played won't take away from the fact that it's a basic instrument. That's my personal opinion.
What's embarrassing is you using someone else's opinion as a "receipt" to dignify your very subjective view as a fact. Whatever the voice is to you is just that. To you, not in general. Your basis isn't even yours
XLR8 you have to stop here. right here. I'm not even reading the rest of your post; what you wrote in bold is 0% true. I said GP recognize the best voices among the biggest acts. indeed, noone care for Kelly Clarckson, Adam Lambert where I live. you have to keep each thing in their context if you want to look smart. intelligence is not knowledges; it's your capacity to adapt yourself to situations & to keep things in their context before analyzing them. even if I had 0 knowledges in "what is a great voices" which is false, the video I posted explained me things that doesn't require a degree of art. you're beyond pressedT and I can read it through your posts. now Bye. until next time (hopefully not)
Beyonce's true resonance peaks E5-F5, though. Definitely got a lot of squillo around that region (she is a Lyric voice after all) The rest of the mid register? Mhmmm. She hasn't an upper register so there's nothing to judge.
By "the rest of her mid register" are you implying her belted notes below E5 are lacking resonance If so, that's blatantly incorrect, few women in pop music can boast having more power(what I'd define as vocal weight + resonance) in their middle register than Beyonce (Notably Whitney and Barbra), and Kelly certainly isn't one of them.
If I've misinterpreted what you meant (likely the case), and you meant notes F#5 and above as "the rest of her mid register", we have a VERY different understanding of what a mid-belt is I'm pretty sure it's generally understood that the mid belting range ends somewhere around Eb5-E5, anything from F#5 up is definitely classified as an upper belt, and is generally the territory of sopranos. You can't fault a mezzo like Beyonce (or the Supreme, Barbra) for not having an extensive chest/mixed belting range beyond that territory, just like I wouldn't hold being unable to hit Bb2s or C3s against a light lyric soprano like Ariana. Exceptions exist like Mariah, who can do things well outside their vocal fach, but that's not at all a common thing.
Quote:
Head voice all the way up to Eb6? Ehhh, lacks the resonance the rest of the others have but let's give her an 'A' for being able to get there. So impressive. Aside from crazy agility, something she's innately endowed, what about that instrument do you consider great? Riddle me that please. Modal range of like what? 2.4 Octaves. I suppose that's impressive to you, right? And what about her texture? Outlandish too, huh?
My opinion, her instrument is very basic. She knows how to use it very well, though.
Her head voice is certainly not lacking resonance, the only woman in pop music who regularly produced as full a sound in head voice was Whitney. This is due to the fact that the majority of women known for that section of their voices (Leona, Ariana, Christina back in the day) used falsetto to hit those notes rather than a proper head voice. Of course, it's natural for the notes at the very top of one's range to be thinner or more forced than those in their tessitura. Beyonce's tessitura extends from roughly C#3-C6, exactly three octaves. That's extremely impressive; Only Mariah Carey, Ariana Grande, Minnie Riperton and Lisa Fischer can boast having a notably wider range than that, and two of those names had to deal with very small volume output as a compromise. It's also the same territory Whitney Houston, Lara Fabian, Barbra Streisand, etc are in, with her extended range being a bit wider.
Things like texture are subjective. I'd classify it as smooth, on the darker end of the scale, with moderate volume output, and ample weight in it's lower and mid registers. Things like agility, volume output and connected range versus disconnected ranges are lost on the GP, so I understand why people can't understand what makes her instrument great/find it overrated when compared to more obvious things like a massive upper range or a raspy ("unique") tone. Still, I'd classify it as a four-star instrument in the hands of a five-star player.
Quote:
Also, Demi isn't a Kelly anything. God no lol She has a unique timbre but the way she tries to lower her larynx to sound grown.... And don't get me started on those upper belts, if that's even what they're called lol
I didn't mean to imply Demi was actually similar to Kelly, more so that she is someone who attempts to emulate Kelly, and falls flat the majority of the time (that I've heard her, anyway).
Quote:
But again, she's only the voice to whomever believes she is. Deeming that as an indisputable fact, though? Come on. Talk about a bland instrument...
Again, I find terms like "The Voice", "The Voice of __" to be meaningless and unverifiable for reasons that I've stated before. Everything that I've discussed left subjectivity out of the equation and very much dealt with facts: range, volume output, resonance and things like that, which can actually be measured and quantified.
), or Whitney Houston in 34th place (
) that's on you.
educate me 
that's why I love making thread; you always learn from your sistrens 
. thank you for enlighten me on this.
endthread/ you turning around the same point
I'm pretty sure it's generally understood that the mid belting range ends somewhere around Eb5-E5, anything from F#5 up is definitely classified as an upper belt, and is generally the territory of sopranos. You can't fault a mezzo like Beyonce (or the Supreme, Barbra) for not having an extensive chest/mixed belting range beyond that territory, just like I wouldn't hold being unable to hit Bb2s or C3s against a light lyric soprano like Ariana. Exceptions exist like Mariah, who can do things well outside their vocal fach, but that's not at all a common thing.