| |
Poll: More Successful Era: 21 vs Baby One More Time?
|
View Poll Results: More successful era?
|
|
21
|
   
|
146 |
50.69% |
|
Baby One More Time
|
  
|
89 |
30.90% |
Artpop
|
  
|
53 |
18.40% |
Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 15,836
|
Quote:
Originally posted by swissman
Yes but do you think that if Britney didn't debut in 1999 that Christina wouldn't have come? Record labels have teams devoted to market research. Being the first and paving the way are different things. But yes, undoubtedly Britney's massive success spawned imitators.
|
No, but i doubt she would have had that much success (and she still failed to meet Britney´s success) and i REALLY doubt she would be doing pop music and that she would have been marketed as a sexy lolita just like Britney was 
|
|
|
|
Member Since: 8/19/2013
Posts: 34,855
|
Quote:
Originally posted by swissman
It's similar to calling someone local. If you sell a lot but only to one group, you're not really more successful than someone who sells to all demographics.
For example, you could sell 10 million albums but mostly to Ireland in 2000 or 10 million albums all over the world in 2010. Which is more successful? Considering the decline of album sales it's obviously the latter.
|
I really don't see how selling 10 million albums almost exclusively to Ireland is any less successful than selling 10 million albums worldwide. You're still selling the same number of albums. 
And when you call someone local, you're usually making reference to the fact that they don't sell much outside the regions where they're popular. Britney still sold similar numbers to Adele worldwide, regardless of her demo.
|
|
|
|
Member Since: 3/15/2013
Posts: 25,228
|
Quote:
Originally posted by Maleficent
Yes, but BOMT didn't have the same wide reaching appeal as 21. Like he said, all demographics were buying 21. The same probably can't be said about BOMT. Therefore, the fact it sold as much as it did when it really only appealed to a certain age group is quite impressive.
And if 21 had come out in a different time period it may have sold less for all we know. Just because it sold a lot in 2011 doesn't mean it would have been as popular in 2001. |
I don't think you're taking inflation (or in this case deflation) into consideration.
21 selling almost 30 million in this era is alot more impressive. 30 million sales in 2011 is about the equivalent of around 40-50 million in 1999. Noon'e saying it would have done well in 2001 or anything like that.
Take Gaga's debut album/TFM. Her impact was not the same as Brit's but close to it, and if albums were still selling like they were in 99, she probably could have sold about 20 million with her album too.
You could say with any album that had it been released at a different time, it wouldn't have been as successful. Every mega successful album that shifts the industry is almost always right place, right time to begin with. It was the same with Brit, like it was the same with Adele.
|
|
|
|
Member Since: 6/2/2012
Posts: 37,284
|
Quote:
Originally posted by tcweh
|
Quote:
Originally posted by Scepter
21 > The Fame > BOMT |
Thank you. Some people really have no idea about the sales decline. It's quite sad tbh. I mean, we are on a music forum after all.
|
|
|
|
Member Since: 6/2/2012
Posts: 37,284
|
Quote:
Originally posted by Mike91
21 selling almost 30 million in this era is alot more impressive. 30 million sales in 2011 is about the equivalent of around 40-50 million in 1999. Noon'e saying it would have done well in 2001 or anything like that.
|
Actually it'd be at almost 80M technically.
|
|
|
|
Member Since: 3/27/2012
Posts: 18,963
|
Quote:
Originally posted by Sazare
I really don't see how selling 10 million albums almost exclusively to Ireland is any less successful than selling 10 million albums worldwide. You're still selling the same number of albums.
And when you call someone local, you're usually making reference to the fact that they don't sell much outside the regions where they're popular. Britney still sold similar numbers to Adele worldwide, regardless of her demo. |
But I wasn't saying Britney was local, I was comparing being local (selling to only specific markets) to being age-specific (selling only to specific ages).
|
|
|
|
Member Since: 3/27/2012
Posts: 18,963
|
Quote:
Originally posted by Brinny Baby
No she wouldn't have. She released Reflection instead of a teen pop song in '98 and she didn't have much charm and energy to fill that void.
|
Reflection is a soundtrack single for a Disney movie. The sound of that single is chosen by whomever is producing the soundtrack. And charm and energy? She had plenty, otherwise she wouldn't be a solid #2 to Britney.
Quote:
Originally posted by alestevens
No, but i doubt she would have had that much success (and she still failed to meet Britney´s success) and i REALLY doubt she would be doing pop music and that she would have been marketed as a sexy lolita just like Britney was |
So what you're saying is that after the Spice Girls went away the record labels just suddenly forgot about bubblegum pop music and the idea of marketing cute girls to young markets until Britney came?
|
|
|
|
Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 3,400
|
I love when people say it was easy to sell 20+ million back in the 90s/00s. It was more common than now, relatively, but it was still a major feat to reach.
|
|
|
|
Member Since: 8/19/2013
Posts: 9,657
|
Quote:
Originally posted by Mike91
I don't think you're taking inflation (or in this case deflation) into consideration.
21 selling almost 30 million in this era is alot more impressive. 30 million sales in 2011 is about the equivalent of around 40-50 million in 1999. Noon'e saying it would have done well in 2001 or anything like that.
Take Gaga's debut album/TFM. Her impact was not the same as Brit's but close to it, and if albums were still selling like they were in 99, she probably could have sold about 20 million with her album too.
You could say with any album that had it been released at a different time, it wouldn't have been as successful. Every mega successful album that shifts the industry is almost always right place, right time to begin with. It was the same with Brit, like it was the same with Adele.
|
I did take the differing sales climates into consideration. I know 21 selling as much as it did in the digital age is more impressive. I never disputed that. I just think it's pointless to say "if albums sales were at their peak it probably would have sold more". Using Gaga as an example since you did, TF/TFM and their sales were helped massively by the success of their singles. If album sales were the same as they were in 99, then single sales may have been lower. Without the massive success of JD, PF, BR etc her album may not have sold as much. It's impossible to try and compare album sales now to those back in the 90s since there's so many differences.
|
|
|
|
Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 16,371
|
Quote:
Originally posted by SebaMonster
Actually it'd be at almost 80M technically.
|
There's no definite equivalent. 21 had a lot of sales to people who might not know how to pirate, in particular older people for example, a demographic that also helped Susan Boyle shift 9 million albums in 2009. It's impossible to know how many extra sales the record would have made, but 80M is insane. 40-50M seems more reasonable based on how album sales go when a record is huge.
|
|
|
|
Member Since: 1/18/2012
Posts: 14,652
|
Quote:
Originally posted by Sazare
Now sis, that's not even a little true. Britney was an absolute phenomenon, well above even Gaga circa 2009, and BOMT was what established her as one. BOMT had so much more cultural impact, and almost single-handedly ushered in a major wave of teenpop. I really don't think some of you are old enough to realize just how big Britney was then, relative to any of her peers. 
21 wins in sales tho, especially given the fact that album sales are way lower now than they were then. I forgot to take that into account when I voted in the poll, and I regret it. If I had, I'd probably have voted for ARTPOP. |
Maybe it had a bit of impact temporarily but it didn't last long. A lot of those teen acts died out within 5 years of their career, and the rest changed their image (Xtina for example).
21 is like the current standard for young vocalists, you hear Adele songs being covered from every corner of the earth.
BOMT literally has nothing on it and that's the harsh truth.
|
|
|
|
ATRL Contributor
Member Since: 8/19/2013
Posts: 46,848
|
|
|
|
|
Member Since: 8/19/2013
Posts: 9,488
|
Why is this even a question? Obviously 21.
|
|
|
|
Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 7,499
|
21 obviously... like can you imagine the sales of 21 had it been released in 99?
|
|
|
|
Member Since: 8/27/2012
Posts: 5,464
|
|
|
|
|
Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 15,836
|
Quote:
Originally posted by swissman
Reflection is a soundtrack single for a Disney movie. The sound of that single is chosen by whomever is producing the soundtrack. And charm and energy? She had plenty, otherwise she wouldn't be a solid #2 to Britney.
So what you're saying is that after the Spice Girls went away the record labels just suddenly forgot about bubblegum pop music and the idea of marketing cute girls to young markets until Britney came?
|
No, but they could have made Christina go on some Whitney route as more of a vocalist instead of making pop music, and being marketed as a sexy lolita was actually Britney´s idea, not the label´s
|
|
|
|
Member Since: 12/10/2008
Posts: 1,964
|
Quote:
Originally posted by abrahamjmr
21 could have been more successful but ...Baby One More Time had a bigger impact. |
This. 21 wins sales wise but BOMT and Britney are much more iconic.
|
|
|
|
Member Since: 5/26/2012
Posts: 2,662
|
WTF !! BOMT iconic ? and BSB and Nsync should be compared to legendary bands such as the Beatles too then 
Britney was just a teen idol ala Bieber & 1D, now if you say that in 20 years people would say that Bieber were more iconic than JT then
21 by far, it appeals to anyone, and we don t even consider the impact of piracy on sales, if BOMT was released in 2010, it would "only" reach 3-4M in the US ! 21 spent 24weeks at 1
|
|
|
|
Member Since: 1/18/2012
Posts: 14,652
|
Quote:
Originally posted by Ashrock
WTF !! BOMT iconic ? and BSB and Nsync should be compared to legendary bands such as the Beatles too then
Britney was just a teen idol ala Bieber & 1D, now if you say that in 20 years people would say that Bieber were more iconic than JT then
21 by far, it appeals to anyone, and we don t even consider the impact of piracy on sales, if BOMT was released in 2010, it would "only" reach 3-4M in the US ! 21 spent 24weeks at 1 |
THANKYOU! This is what ive been trying to say. 'Impact' my ass.
|
|
|
|
Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 15,836
|
Quote:
Originally posted by Ashrock
WTF !! BOMT iconic ? and BSB and Nsync should be compared to legendary bands such as the Beatles too then
Britney was just a teen idol ala Bieber & 1D, now if you say that in 20 years people would say that Bieber were more iconic than JT then
21 by far, it appeals to anyone, and we don t even consider the impact of piracy on sales, if BOMT was released in 2010, it would "only" reach 3-4M in the US ! 21 spent 24weeks at 1 |
Thanks to that "non-impactful" album, tons and tons of female solo acts came as lolitas attempting to do pop music. Britney opened the door for other female acts at that moment, since the only females doing good in that time frame were already consolidated for years (Shania Twain was experiencing global success for first time but she was already known in the US years before, Celine Dion was established already). Britney was the first newcomer in YEARS to sell that ammount of albums and cause that much impact. Almost instantly RCA signed Christina to be her counterpart after watching the success she had, and they marketed her as a sexy lolita exactly like Britney.
Bieber and 1D had their impact, but they were nowhere near BSB, JT / NSYNC, and yet NSYNC and JT both failed to sell the ammount of albums Britney sold.
BSB and Britney are the only true icons of Teen-Pop, while out of those 2 Britney is the only one who is still successful and called a Pop Icon thanks to all that she did for the pop music and her several iconic music videos.
|
|
|
|
|
|
