Christina was an asshole on the set of Lady Marmalade. Mya confirmed.
Oh, wow. I never knew that.
Quote:
Originally posted by Robert
Considering that Madonna is the most successful female artist of all time I'm gonna say no. I say this as a big Madonna fan and not a hater.
Madonna had and still has charisma and charm. She also was able to back up her attitude so she didn't have a bad personality. She just had a diva attitude and wasn't afraid to say what she meant. I feel like some artists with bad attitudes think that they have the same impact, influence, charm and charisma as Madonna but they fail.
Quote:
Originally posted by atrlster
Your facts aren't even accurate like the rest of these accusations. That empathy thing happened in 2001 at her birthday party not 1999 or 2000. And your theory doesn't even make sense. Christina's main niche is R&B not rock. Why would Christina want to do the pop punk thing first? And even if she wanted to, how does that equate to her starting the fight with Pink?
Ugh. I don't care what her main niche is now she wanted to go in the pop punk direction and then shaded Pink when it worked with her. Otherwise, why would fighter exist? her image change did not reflect her r&b niche at all. She went from pop tart to faux pop rock raunchy image.
So you make up a theory about Christina wanting to do pop punk and saying its true even though Christina never made a statement, and I'm the one who is making up stuff and "character assination"? No lol
I didn't make it up, doll. You can even do your research on linda perry and her other producers around that time. People were making fun of her because they didn't think she could pull it off and it went against the initial rumors of her working with hip hop producer rockwilder then trying to pull a Pink. I remember it vividly when i was on other forums.
Not certified, but did well for his main market, R&B. His career is stable at the moment.
His songs did well in 2009 with I can transform ya so was his career stable then, no? urban stations will support his stuff because he was supposed to be the modern day usher/MJ but he messed it up unfortunately that doesn't make his career stable. He had a mini comeback in 2010/11 with huge radio hits but then like most comebacks it didn't last long. His antics made the comeback hype fall that much quicker. Now he is just based off of shock value. Serving me Britney spears circa 2006/7 realness. Hopefully he can make a huge splash again.
You talk about character assination, yet you like most people hear a rumor about and assume all accusations are true. First off, there is no problem at all with Britney, Gaga, Beyonce or Madonna. As a Britney fan, I'm sure you know that. I was not saying that there was an ongoing issue. I think all of the incidences were a moment in time...the problem is that it extended over a long period. I guess you don't want to acknowledge her shady antics with these women, huh.
Vin Diesel incident also never happened - fake.
What did Toni Braxton say? in 2000, look it up
Mariah started it with Christina. She has insecurity with younger singers. If you followed Mariah at all, you would know that. Christina had always praised her in her early days, but Mariah felt insecure at the time, because her career was in trouble and felt she was being replaced and compared by someone who was "pop", which she didn't want to be seen as. Christina was supposed to sing at Divas Live one year, but Mariah didn't want her there, so Christina didn't perform. Christina found out what happened and was very hurt. And the latest example of it this is happening right now on TV as we know with Mariah trying to get Nicki off Idol. But this it didn't happen and the truth was exposed. Gurl, bye with what I bolded. This I agree on. Christina made a comment on VH1 back in 1999 by saying that she loved Whitney and Madonna and also Mariah but said that she could see herself in her place and it was her turn Mariah had her time. I mean, I wouldn't take that offensive but Mariah did. That said, I do remember Mariah being a diva about it but I was referring to years later mid 00s when she dissed Mariah making fun of her breakdown and Mariah called her out for showing up uninvited at a party.
Kelly Osbourne attacks everyone and she attacked Christina first on her show. Christina even tried to confront her in a club and asked what the issue to make peace but Kelly chickened out and ran off. Like the other situations, this is a case where nobody likes Kelly at all, but takes her side but they dislike Christina. And case in point, what happened recently, when people who despise Kelly or don't have an opinion on her took her side in the Gaga situation, not because they feel what Kelly said, but because they dislike Gaga more. YOu don't have to go into your versions of what you think happened. You generalize way too much.
Charlotte dissed Christina first. What kind of third grader response?
Do you have proof she wasn't on drugs during the incident? Like I said she's said she was messed up before her marriage. Considering her attitude got much better after that, it's clear she wasn't in the right state of mind for whatever reason that day, whether it be drugs or her just being angry and depressed that day. She even tried to get that interview pulled. Obviously if she stood by what she said and meant it, she wouldn't have done that. But she tried. This all comes down to decency. You might as well assume every single person is on drugs until proven innocent. Most decent people believe innocent until proven guilty not the other way around and it's not difficult to go back to a mid 90s interview to see when mary j. was on drugs how she handled herself versus when that interview took place. You'd have to prove she was on drugs not me proven she wasn't. Her attitude was much better before that too. She started improving her attitude back in 99/00. It started to show in her interviews and her videos. Back in 97 she was talking the talk but not walking the walk. There is a difference between 97 and 99/00. The interview occurred in 02.
Again, considering most people have a good initial meeting with her, and that those two are fine today, it was obviously a misunderstanding/miscommunication. And no, Mary wasn't clear. She even said she had heard things before (setting herself up to be paranoid instead of judging first hand unbiasedly) and then making an accusation too comical to be taken seriously.
No, it's not a misunderstanding. I don't believe that she's had bad issues with everyone. No one does. I believe it when people say that she was nice to them but I also believe the attitude part because I have seen that in her through her interviews. She can do both. She's better with the attitude. She's not that good at being sincerely nice.
If what Mary said was true, why haven't other people spoken up being greeted by Christina the same way? Show me other people who have been greeted by Christina exactly the way Mary alledgly claimed. If you want an incident of a more normal meeting between someone and Christina, look up how she met Lil Kim, I don't need to look up anything Lil kim related. You have weak arguments. You think that because Mary called her out that it was not accurate because no one else said the exact same thing. Other people have commented on other rude things she's done that she didn't even do the Mary. I guess if someone shoots a person once then your argument would be...well, show me another person that was shot by said person. Gurl, Bye.
You're even posting fake stories and trying to pass them off as truth, so gurl bye yourself for once. You have no room to question anyone if you're going to be posting fake stuff.
Yet, you post baseless excuses and claim things that are not proven. You still haven't proven that Mary J was on drugs during their encounter and/or during that meeting. Like, c'mon.
The issues started in 1999, but I believe there was another incident around 2002.
And really what people are saying about Christina now is just because in the present moment she is not doing well. Stop trying to think for other people. You make up every excuse as to why YOU think people are responding a certain way and then you generalize and then on top of that question others that question you. Stawp it...save yourself.
Remember when P!nk and Mariah were flopping, and people said the same thing, that their careers had ended because of their attitude problems: No, their flopping had nothing to do with their attitude to the public. Their attitude continues onto this day, only difference is now they have radioplay
I don't remember the Pink thing but I do remember the Mariah thing. The only thing I remember with Pink is that her Try this album underperformed and before that she was riding off of the missunderstood success and dared to say that she is going to make people forget who Madonna is...but i don't recall her getting backlash for it. I don't recall Mariah's attitude being her demise because she was always one of the nice divas. Other divas seemed more cut throat and grrrr. Mariah not finding clothes that fit properly on her and wearing bandanas as bras and walking around in bikinis that showed off her nasatal disease completely alienating her core audience that felt she didn't need to do that to sell is what I felt was her demise in 2001 not people not liking her attitude. To me, she's the last diva standing that can truly get away with an over the top diva attitude that is accepting by the public because she has (wait for it)...charm and charisma.
Quote:
Originally posted by atrlster
Are you talking about where P!nk put Christina in a headlock, and Christina didn't take well to it? Or something else? Cause if you're talking about that, I think it's obvious P!nk was the asshole for doing that
Whaaaaaaaaaaat? I need some receipts for that. Is there a youtube video? With all that hair Christina had on her hair serving twisted sister/dee snyder realness and you believe this to be true. Do you have any quotes from Mya on this matter?
Quote:
Originally posted by HausOfJabril
Kanye is an asshole (love him) but he's made some of the best albums of all time AND they've been successful.
Grossly overrated but compare his success before and after the Taylor Swift situation.
that situation was one of too many incidences. He pushed his luck and has never been the same.
Quote:
Originally posted by Cap10Planet
So you're implying that Christina sticking out her hand for Mary to "kiss it" probably never happened if no one else comes out and say that Christina did the exact same thing to them? As if a person greets everyone the same way... None of us were there to know what really happened, but from someone who has followed Mary, I don't see why Mary would just pick on Christina and say that she did something when she didn't. And there may have been a slight misunderstanding of some sort, but that doesn't mean Mary didn't have the right to get offended or there wasn't some intent on Christina's part. Like I said, none of us were there to know exactly what happened, but we can only go on what was said about the incident and the histories of both parties involved. And many people recant statements or get interview pulled as a form of damage control, saving face or avoiding the media from latching on to things. Also, Valerie Bertinelli and Vin Diesel have said that Christina had a bad attitude upon meeting them.
I'm sorry, but I just don't believe in this "Christina's the victim" implication that's going on here. If several people have said something about Christina, then chances are some of it's true and Christina has an issue. I don't see any reason to pick on Christina for any reason. Most of these artists and celebs have just as much as she does & probably more, or they could have easily targeted someone who has more than Christina.
Her fans always paint her as the victim. Nothing new. It's interesting because certain artist have gone through alot and don't victimize themselves...it's called maturity.
Quote:
Originally posted by MusicTalker
People don't like to admit it, but personality & back story is integral to a celebrity's success in their field. That's because image is HUGE in Hollywood. Certain people can get away with being nasty, but that's because it may just be part of their public image. And some people may be rude but have a good image and great PR people to cover the rudeness up.
It's not just entertainment, but any career field you go into : your personality can elevate your career or leave it stagnant if your attitude is rotten but you do good work anyway. Be personable and your career can reach amazing heights (if you do great work on top of it). You'll never see the CEO of a company not be personable.
True. Personality and back story go a long way. The game changed in the late 90s and the whole diva and outrageous thing went by the wayside. People of the newer generation need to like and relate to their artist. People of an older generation needed to just relate more to the song and aspire to be like them. People know more that the entertainment biz is bs so they look at it as entertinament where back in the day I think people took it more seriously. You can hit whatever note right but if the public can't relate to you or support your campaign your time is limited.
Quote:
Originally posted by MCBeth
Proof is needed for all this defensive, excused filled paragraph. Mariah started nothing with Xtina. From my recollection. You accused him of bringing rumor filled gossip stories yet you use the same device to "prove" your points. When did the "Christina was supposed to sing at Divas Live one year, but Mariah didn't want her there, so Christina didn't perform." happen? Majority of the things like "Mariah felt insecure at the time, because her career was in trouble and felt she was being replaced and compared by someone who was "pop", which she didn't want to be seen as." are your assumptions and things that you cannot prove. Has Mariah said this on an interview? For every artist that has a problem with Xtina you have fished every excuse in the book to invalidate what they said hence "Mariah started it, P!nk was jealous, Avril is jealous, Mary was on drugs and unstable, Kelly was a bitch, blah blah blah" Its obvious that Xtina has personality issues, its blatantly obvious from her interview to "The Voice". I mean her conceited nature and the fact that she over-estimates herself, her music, and talent is a major turn off and yes, she is a bitch.
As far as my knowledge goes about their "feud" was that Mariah was never warm to Xtina the way she expected (Mariah normally doesn't address newbies other than those she likes like Beyonce) and when Xtina went to Mariah's party, she got kicked out and then Xtina started it all with her interview with GQ magazine......I honestly don't care about their past feud and you should learn to accept things without fishing every excuse possible on planet Earth.
Who are you trying to convince? Us or yourself? I mean Xtina isn't the first "bitch" I mean Madonna, Mariah, and many more are but they don't reach her level of delusion. "Bionic is a masterpiece...."
Clock, he can't debate the nasty remarks that are actually in print/youtube so he tries to come to defense for things that he can manipulate. I'm glad I stan for certain fanbases so I don't have to go through that mentality.
Quote:
Originally posted by LadyLana
Well Madonna's known for being bitchy and catty, and she was still successful back then!
Justin Bieber's attitude sucks too from video's I've seen even to his fans, yet he's still famous as f*ck!
She has charm and charisma and was a game changer. If you are a follower, you can't get away with stuff that a leader can.
Quote:
Originally posted by TeamRHI
One name:
Kanye West
He is still super successful both critically and commercially, yet most people strongly dislike him. But his music is pure art, so its hard to resist his music when its easy to resist him.
Not as successful as he once was or as acclaimed and he is more known for antics now then game changing music. His last two records should have been monumental and would have been if his antics didn't catch up with him.
I usually keep someone's personaliity and whether or not I like their work separate... but I know most people don't so I presume that a horrible personalitty can **** up your money to an extent, yes.
Whether it was Divas Live or another situation, Christina has said that she met Mariah and was disappointed with the way Mariah treated her. That is a not a rumor.
And we're you saying about JLO and the pig is EXACTLY what Im saying. It seems very hypocritical of you to say I'm making "excuses" for Christina, when the stuff I'm mentioning is in the same boat there of rumors and incidents that were provoked by other reason.
How about I name a few things where Mariah didn't provoke the situation or that were untrue. And you defend then? Are you suddenly making excuses for everything too?
How about I list what happened with Nicki, Tommy Motolla, Eminem, Brenda K Starr, that JLO thing, etc. If you defend them all, are you just making excuses for Mariah being a bitch too then?
That is one sided argument. Xtina was disappointed, like I said earlier because Mariah wasn't as warm to her as she expected. Unless you have proof of the bad treatment, then get off that high horse. You choose to accept one side of the story: Xtina's and and its your call. You've made your bed, now lay in it.
That was my point! It was a rumor much like your "counter-proofs"
If you put situations like Madonna vs. Mariah where it was Madonna that started it first then you bet I will defend her, however if you brought the J-Lo vs Mariah thing which Mariah shaded her even though J-Lo did nothing to her (directly) then I won't fish out every possible excuse. No, I'm not desperate to prove her innocence and "victim" image.
That was dumb on your part to bring Eminem and Tommy Matolla into this. For someone who is a "fan" of Mariah and "followed" her closely since 1999 then you should know the problem there. I don't know about the Brenda K Starr problem to defend her nor do I care to. You also know the problem with the whole Nicki situation as well as J-Lo who was Tommy's spawn. I'm not going to demonize their characteristics to make Mariah look like she was victim because they've said shyt about them and she's defended herself back (not in the case of J-Lo though).
We aren't all as defensive
But I think you're taking the "masterpiece" line too seriously. She's just saying she stands by her work even though it didn't get a great reception. Mariah's defended Glitter too and people called her delusional, I don't see how that is for either case. What are you expecting them to say? That yes, they hate the album because the public didnt respond well to it?
It's not like when Kanye has something alone the lines of how he knows his album is the best and needs to win album of the year or something along those lines. Now if theres anything that would be called "delusional" that would be it.
And you saying that you think "Xtina just seems like she's in a place where she feels she too good for it" seems like an assumption. Too good for what? You mean her comeback? I think she's really being held back by her kid really
No, I'm not taking it too seriously. Xtina was not joking when she said that, in fact she's insulated this much she constantly talks about Bionic. Mariah has defended Glitter as well she should as well Xtina should as well any artist should because its their work but I have yet to see anyone say "My album wasn't meant for commercial, it was for music lovers", "Bionic was a masterpiece", "it was for music lovers and those who understand it", or things along those lines that Xtina commented on Bionic.
Like I said Kanye is an a**hole who thinks he's the best and then went along the lines to say that since "Michael was dead I'm next in life" or something like that.......the only difference is that through his bullshyt talking he's able to deliver and it works for his imagine, it obviously doesn't work for Xtina.
From what I've seen since the Lotus era began she said "I want this generation to have its 'Beautiful'...." blah blah blah and talked about how she wants this generation to grow up with her and then her album drops and she acts like it doesn't need promoting. In my opinion (yes it is an assumption and I never said it was a fact) she acts like she's above that commercial stuff and acts like her music is the salvation of pure music for "music lovers". This is what I feel every-time she has an interview about any of her albums except for her 1st album. She is too self-admiring for her own good.
Ugh. I don't care what her main niche is now she wanted to go in the pop punk direction and then shaded Pink when it worked with her. Otherwise, why would fighter exist? her image change did not reflect her r&b niche at all. She went from pop tart to faux pop rock raunchy image.
Where is the proof she wanted to go pop punk? This is the craziest thing I've ever heard LOL. Christina has always been R&Binfluenced from the start. What do you think her debut is influenced by? What do you think her voice fits? Why do you think she was singing Etta James songs back then? Now her image is "faux pop rock"? What? She looked nothing like P!nk the supposed "faux pop rocker". Everyone said she was trying to look more urban too.
I didn't make it up, doll. You can even do your research on linda perry and her other producers around that time. People were making fun of her because they didn't think she could pull it off and it went against the initial rumors of her working with hip hop producer rockwilder then trying to pull a Pink. I remember it vividly when i was on other forums.
I've never heard about anything like this, and my research turned up nothing. Sounds like just had hearsay on a forum that you convinced yourself was fact, "doll". Just because she worked with Linda Perry doesn't mean she's going to do punk and the work on Stripped shows that. Most of the stuff they did was more pop.
I was not saying that there was an ongoing issue. I think all of the incidences were a moment in time...the problem is that it extended over a long period. I guess you don't want to acknowledge her shady antics with these women, huh.
I acknowledge them when something happened, but nothing major really happened between Britney and Christina. If something happened, it was remedied pretty soon after, after several years of getting along, that's not a huge issue.
in 2000, look it up Show me If I could find it, I wouldn't' ask
Gurl, bye with what I bolded. This I agree on. Christina made a comment on VH1 back in 1999 by saying that she loved Whitney and Madonna and also Mariah but said that she could see herself in her place and it was her turn Mariah had her time. I mean, I wouldn't take that offensive but Mariah did. That said, I do remember Mariah being a diva about it but I was referring to years later mid 00s when she dissed Mariah making fun of her breakdown and Mariah called her out for showing up uninvited at a party.
Do you have the video of that? I've never seen that. But I have seen countless other videos where Christina is extremely complimentary of Mariah. Sounds more like a case of words popping out the wrong way, i really don't think it was malicious
YOu don't have to go into your versions of what you think happened. You generalize way too much. Excuses. You can look up the video yourself if you feel it's a "Generalization". But its a fact
What kind of third grader response?
You can call it what you like it, but it's true.
This all comes down to decency. You might as well assume every single person is on drugs until proven innocent. Most decent people believe innocent until proven guilty not the other way around and it's not difficult to go back to a mid 90s interview to see when mary j. was on drugs how she handled herself versus when that interview took place. You'd have to prove she was on drugs not me proven she wasn't. Her attitude was much better before that too. She started improving her attitude back in 99/00. It started to show in her interviews and her videos. Back in 97 she was talking the talk but not walking the walk. There is a difference between 97 and 99/00. The interview occurred in 02.
This is not a matter of decency, and you're acting like Im assuming everyone is on drugs lol This is a person with a known long history of drugs and depression. She was probably on drugs around 97 and 00. She didn't really start to clean up until she was with her husband. Was she on drugs that exact day? Nobody can tell for sure, and her attitude may have been improving bits, but it wasn't the way it is today.
I don't need to look up anything Lil kim related. You have weak arguments. You think that because Mary called her out that it was not accurate because no one else said the exact same thing. Other people have commented on other rude things she's done that she didn't even do the Mary. I guess if someone shoots a person once then your argument would be...well, show me another person that was shot by said person. Gurl, Bye.
You wish my arguments were weak take a hard look at yourself, saying that Christina wanted to be a rocker because some people on a message-board said so or posting fake rumors as fact
First of all, I wasn't even responding to you on that. That was in response to the other person who thought if Mary J was at fault, that it would atypical of her. I'm saying the same thing applied to Christina. If he didn't think Mary would misperceive something like that, I don't think Christina would even make that kind of gesture in the first place. It really comes down to nobody ever really know what truly happened
And if you say the incident must have happened because of Christina's "reputation", I could say the same thing about Mary's "reputation". So don't even try to like it's "weak" when it the same situation reversed.
Yet, you post baseless excuses and claim things that are not proven. You still haven't proven that Mary J was on drugs during their encounter and/or during that meeting. Like, c'mon.
And I've also said here, that we don't know if she was on drugs that day or not and cited her depression/anger issues. Are you going to expect that to be proven too? What do you want, a doctors note?
The issues started in 1999, but I believe there was another incident around 2002.
And really what people are saying about Christina now is just because in the present moment she is not doing well.
Stop trying to think for other people. You make up every excuse as to why YOU think people are responding a certain way and then you generalize and then on top of that question others that question you. Stawp it...save yourself.
What the hell are you even talking about? You stop making assumptions lol. Im responding to something totally different there. lol
Remember when P!nk and Mariah were flopping, and people said the same thing, that their careers had ended because of their attitude problems: No, their flopping had nothing to do with their attitude to the public. Their attitude continues onto this day, only difference is now they have radioplay
I don't remember the Pink thing but I do remember the Mariah thing. The only thing I remember with Pink is that her Try this album underperformed and before that she was riding off of the missunderstood success and dared to say that she is going to make people forget who Madonna is...but i don't recall her getting backlash for it. I don't recall Mariah's attitude being her demise because she was always one of the nice divas. Other divas seemed more cut throat and grrrr. Mariah not finding clothes that fit properly on her and wearing bandanas as bras and walking around in bikinis that showed off her nasatal disease completely alienating her core audience that felt she didn't need to do that to sell is what I felt was her demise in 2001 not people not liking her attitude. To me, she's the last diva standing that can truly get away with an over the top diva attitude that is accepting by the public because she has (wait for it)...charm and charisma.
Well your think your recollection is off, or you don't have an accurate perception of that time? Mariah was one of the nice divas? Compared to who? She was always perceived as a bitchy diva back then. Madonna was probably seen as bitchier, but so many of her peers like Janet and Celine and Shania and Jewel, etc were seen as nice. Not Mariah.
Whaaaaaaaaaaat? I need some receipts for that. Is there a youtube video? With all that hair Christina had on her hair serving twisted sister/dee snyder realness and you
believe this to be true. Do you have any quotes from Mya on this matter?
I've seen it on video. But I didnt see it on youtube so I don't remember what program it was exactly. It was about Pink though
Her fans always paint her as the victim. Nothing new. It's interesting because certain artist have gone through alot and don't victimize themselves...it's called maturity.
Again, no ones trying to paint anyone as a victim. Just saying if something is untrue or provoked by other people, I don't see how that makes the other person at fault for starting drama. And that applies to anyone, not just Christina. And I've spoken out for others like that too.
I'm sure if people attacked Britney first, and she responded, and people called her a bitch because of that, you would disagree, no? Or would you concede Britney is a bitch?
Clock, he can't debate the nasty remarks that are actually in print/youtube so he tries to come to defense for things that he can manipulate. I'm glad I stan for certain fanbases so I don't have to go through that mentality.
What do you think I'm doing here? LOL You're delusional if you think that was a clock lol
Ive responded to everything here and I've seen and heard it all, especially a lot of the fake things on youtube/print that you tried to pass off thinking I didnt know the truth. You want to talk about being manipulative?
There is no manipulation. If something didnt happen, it didnt happen
If someone provoked something first, its not her who started the dra,a
You seem to have a hard time understanding these basic concepts.
And as a Britney and Nicki stan, don't think you're any different trying to excuse all the things that they get accused of. But I'm sure you wouldn't call those excuses
No, I'm not taking it too seriously. Xtina was not joking when she said that, in fact she's insulated this much she constantly talks about Bionic. Mariah has defended Glitter as well she should as well Xtina should as well any artist should because its their work but I have yet to see anyone say "My album wasn't meant for commercial, it was for music lovers", "Bionic was a masterpiece", "it was for music lovers and those who understand it", or things along those lines that Xtina commented on Bionic.
Like I said Kanye is an a**hole who thinks he's the best and then went along the lines to say that since "Michael was dead I'm next in life" or something like that.......the only difference is that through his bullshyt talking he's able to deliver and it works for his imagine, it obviously doesn't work for Xtina.
From what I've seen since the Lotus era began she said "I want this generation to have its 'Beautiful'...." blah blah blah and talked about how she wants this generation to grow up with her and then her album drops and she acts like it doesn't need promoting. In my opinion (yes it is an assumption and I never said it was a fact) she acts like she's above that commercial stuff and acts like her music is the salvation of pure music for "music lovers". This is what I feel every-time she has an interview about any of her albums except for her 1st album. She is too self-admiring for her own good.
Mariah has said the same kind of things about Glitter though, she's said it was too edgy for people and went over their heads, and that the album was ahead of its time.
Again, like I said earlier, the thing with Kanyes work is all subjective. A lot of people think its good, a lot of people don't, No different than with Christina or any other artists work. So this talk of him "delivering" isn't fact
If your last paragraph is based on an assumption, then what are we talking about here? And you can get upset at me making "assumptions" as you claim, yet you just made a major one?
That is one sided argument. Xtina was disappointed, like I said earlier because Mariah wasn't as warm to her as she expected. Unless you have proof of the bad treatment, then get off that high horse. You choose to accept one side of the story: Xtina's and and its your call. You've made your bed, now lay in it.
That was my point! It was a rumor much like your "counter-proofs"
If you put situations like Madonna vs. Mariah where it was Madonna that started it first then you bet I will defend her, however if you brought the J-Lo vs Mariah thing which Mariah shaded her even though J-Lo did nothing to her (directly) then I won't fish out every possible excuse. No, I'm not desperate to prove her innocence and "victim" image.
That was dumb on your part to bring Eminem and Tommy Matolla into this. For someone who is a "fan" of Mariah and "followed" her closely since 1999 then you should know the problem there. I don't know about the Brenda K Starr problem to defend her nor do I care to. You also know the problem with the whole Nicki situation as well as J-Lo who was Tommy's spawn. I'm not going to demonize their characteristics to make Mariah look like she was victim because they've said shyt about them and she's defended herself back (not in the case of J-Lo though).
We aren't all as defensive
When she said there was bad treatment, she probably meant Mariah was probably rude to her or something, which is what we're talking about. (Wasn't as warm as you said) Not that Mariah slapped her or something
You say you aren't defensive. Yet, you're defending the Tommy, Eminem, Nicki, Madonna, etc incidents., basically all the incidents,. (And I think you misunderstood what I meant with JLo, but Ill get to that in a second.) So basically you're defending her here, because you believe they provoked the incidents right? Yet, when I did that for the parrallel to Christina, you said I was making excuses
Now translate that to Christina, and the incidents where P!nk, Avril, Kelly Osbourne, etc provoked the the incidents
NOW do you get it?
As for JLO, I'm not sure what we're talking about since you talk about the pig thing and the actual shade. But my point was that just like the pig thing was fake, and you disagreed with it, if people mention fake drama that never happened with Christina (like the Vin Diesel thing), I'm going to disagree with incidents that never happened just like you did. Get it?
And I'm glad you can admit Mariah shaded JLO unprovoked. Most Mariah fans I've met honestly blame JLO for that And if Christina provokes the shading, I wont defend that either. Do you see that happening here? No, because I havent.
So dont try to accuse me of defending everything Christina does, because I'm not.
But it the situation fits, then t will. Just like you defended those 4 situations because they fit.
And if I bring other incidents with Mariah (and you know shes had lots of fights herself) and they're also in that same vein of her being attacked first, then I'm sure you would defend that too. Im saying the same applies for Christina. Unless you would consider defend those incidents excuses too
Mariah has said the same kind of things about Glitter though, she's said it was too edgy for people and went over their heads, and that the album was ahead of its time.
Again, like I said earlier, the thing with Kanyes work is all subjective. A lot of people think its good, a lot of people don't, No different than with Christina or any other artists work. So this talk of him "delivering" isn't fact
If your last paragraph is based on an assumption, then what are we talking about here? And you can get upset at me making "assumptions" as you claim, yet you just made a major one?
I wasn't familiar with Mariah saying Glitter was ahead of its time. I remember when she defended the sales and said it was the 5th best selling soundtrack of that year as well as had the biggest single. I need receipts for "the album was ahead of its time" comment.
Its true its subjective, but people aren't having as hard time of understanding the "masterpiece" of his works as they are Xtina's and that my dear isn't subjective.
The last part was my opinion and my take on what happened with her most recent era but you see unlike you I'm not acting like my assumptions and opinions and takes are valid facts that excuse Xtina's behavior as you did with that Mariah argument earlier. Major difference.
Your arguments are just by your justifications Christina was the victim in all the situations or she was attacked first. It just so happens the world and the media is against her, poor her
This is turning into a dragged out, repetitive argument so unless you have some evidence or non assumption-based response........bye. This was fun
I wasn't familiar with Mariah saying Glitter was ahead of its time. I remember when she defended the sales and said it was the 5th best selling soundtrack of that year as well as had the biggest single. I need receipts for "the album was ahead of its time" comment.
Its true its subjective, but people aren't having as hard time of understanding the "masterpiece" of his works as they are Xtina's and that my dear isn't subjective.
The last part was my opinion and my take on what happened with her most recent era but you see unlike you I'm not acting like my assumptions and opinions and takes are valid facts that excuse Xtina's behavior as you did with that Mariah argument earlier. Major difference.
Your arguments are just by your justifications Christina was the victim in all the situations or she was attacked first. It just so happens the world and the media is against her, poor her
This is turning into a dragged out, repetitive argument so unless you have some evidence or non assumption-based response........bye. This was fun
Speak for yourself, when you say people aren't having a hard time hearing Kanye's masterpiece. There are people who enjoyed Christina's work more, and there are people who enjoyed Kanye's work more. Evert diva album on here on here has been declared a "masterpiece" at one time or another, even the objectively "bad" ones
Once again, show me where I said Christina was the victim. If you really think Im painting her as the victim. Then I guess that means Mariah was just a poor innocent victim of Nicki, Tommy Mottola, Eminem, Madonna, etc too Poor dat.
Speak for yourself, when you say people aren't having a hard time hearing Kanye's masterpiece. There are people who enjoyed Christina's work more, and there are people who enjoyed Kanye's work more. Evert diva album on here on here has been declared a "masterpiece" at one time or another, even the objectively "bad" ones
Once again, show me where I said Christina was the victim. If you really think Im painting her as the victim. Then I guess that means Mariah was just a poor innocent victim of Nicki, Tommy Mottola, Eminem, Madonna, etc too Poor dat.
for you finally being able to back up what you've said So now you have something to add to that racked up "Mariah said it too" argument. Great for you
I'm not speaking for myself or for you, I'm speaking from the general public's take because they aren't having the difficult with his works hence why he still sells despite his attitude and she isn't. Its all facts.
So you mean when you found every excuse in the world to invalidate every person in the game that has something negative to say about Xtina, that wasn't victimizing her? :!hplz: just scroll down are read your comments, you defensive attitude and the fact that you went as low as to bring Tommy and Eminem just proves as much. What did that have to do with Xtina again? Again, since you're the "fan" that followed Mariah since 1999 you should know what's up. Why are you clawing for Mariah though? Are you done? Do I really need to defend Mariah to the so called fan as yourself?
Poor Xtina, Mariah attacked her first, P!nk started it, Avril misinterpreted it, Mary was on drugs to realize how magnificent Xtina was, Britney can't deal, the world would never understand her and her greatness. She is Legend X for a reason.
And then you have the nerve to tell me your a fan of Mariah when you just fished out Tommy and Eminem. unbelievable, I've had enough.
for you finally being able to back up what you've said So now you have something to add to that racked up "Mariah said it too" argument. Great for you
I'm not speaking for myself or for you, I'm speaking from the general public's take because they aren't having the difficult with his works hence why he still sells despite his attitude and she isn't. Its all facts.
So you mean when you found every excuse in the world to invalidate every person in the game that has something negative to say about Xtina, that wasn't victimizing her? :!hplz: just scroll down are read your comments, you defensive attitude and the fact that you went as low as to bring Tommy and Eminem just proves as much. What did that have to do with Xtina again? Again, since you're the "fan" that followed Mariah since 1999 you should know what's up. Why are you clawing for Mariah though? Are you done? Do I really need to defend Mariah to the so called fan as yourself?
Poor Xtina, Mariah attacked her first, P!nk started it, Avril misinterpreted it, Mary was on drugs to realize how magnificent Xtina was, Britney can't deal, the world would never understand her and her greatness. She is Legend X for a reason.
And then you have the nerve to tell me your a fan of Mariah when you just fished out Tommy and Eminem. unbelievable, I've had enough.
Now, you can learn from my example and try to back up what you've been saying about those incidents that you've yet to prove
Like I've said countless times in this thread, the main key here is radio support. Show me Kanye selling this much without radio support and with his "artistry" and we'll see what happens..
You can make light of what I said about Pink, Avril, and Kelly, but the reality stands. I'm clawing for Mariah? Uh no. If you weren't so biased youd be able to look at things more equally.
The fact that you want people to understand what happened with Mariah, but refuse to try to understand the incidents with Christina just shows your hypocrisy and double standards. You want everyone to look at Mariah fairly, but you're so quick that assume that if something is going on with Christina it must be truth huh?
I understand both of their situations, so I get what happened with them. But dont try to act like one situation deserves more explanation and one can be dismissed and that assumptions can be taken as fact. Otherwise, then the same could be said of Mariah's situations. That's all Im saying.
Had enough? That's what you said last post Yet you came running back. Wouldn't be surprised if you came back for more
Now, you can learn from my example and try to back up what you've been saying about those incidents that you've yet to prove
Like I've said countless times in this thread, the main key here is radio support. Show me Kanye selling this much without radio support and with his "artistry" and we'll see what happens..
You can make light of what I said about Pink, Avril, and Kelly, but the reality stands. I'm clawing for Mariah? Uh no. If you weren't so biased youd be able to look at things more equally.
The fact that you want people to understand what happened with Mariah, but refuse to try to understand the incidents with Christina just shows your hypocrisy and double standards. You want everyone to look at Mariah fairly, but you're so quick that assume that if something is going on with Christina it must be truth huh?
I understand both of their situations, so I get what happened with them. But dont try to act like one situation deserves more explanation and one can be dismissed and that assumptions can be taken as fact. Otherwise, then the same could be said of Mariah's situations. That's all Im saying.
Had enough? That's what you said last post Yet you came running back. Wouldn't be surprised if you came back for more
I wasn't the one making allegations that I couldn't back, that was you. Where is it that I need to prove what I said? All the things that I said are public knowledge, its not my fault that you want to overlook it.
As for "proof of Kanye's success without radio" I cannot prove something that didn't happen. Doesn't matter what factor goes into it after the Taylor incident and after the Bush incident he is still selling, now that I can prove.
"You can make light of what I said about Pink, Avril, and Kelly, but the reality stands. I'm clawing for Mariah? Uh no. If you weren't so biased youd be able to look at things more equally."
I think I found my new sig Not you coming for anyone because of being biased You're the last person on this thread that should preach anyone about being biased and fair. You act like you were being fair in all your assessments of the others when you just angled it for Xtina's benefit.
"The fact that you want people to understand what happened with Mariah, but refuse to try to understand the incidents with Christina just shows your hypocrisy and double standards. You want everyone to look at Mariah fairly, but you're so quick that assume that if something is going on with Christina it must be truth huh?"
Where did I say this? Actually, I didn't comment on the validity of your explanations, I just pointed out that you made excuses in all the situations. I'm sure that there were incidents that Xtina was being attacked and I'm sure there are incidents that she was the one attacking, ITS LIFE so get over it. I'm not here for ever excuse you made up you can go home and go straight to sleep with all that. Its like you're incapable of saying she was wrong or she has personality problems. I have no problems admitting that Mariah was wrong in some of her behavior (such as Nicki and J-Lo) you on the other hand
"I understand both of their situations, so I get what happened with them. But dont try to act like one situation deserves more explanation and one can be dismissed and that assumptions can be taken as fact. Otherwise, then the same could be said of Mariah's situations. That's all Im saying."
Now this makes sense, I'm sure there is both sides of the story but I'm not sure you understand that because in all your arguments you brought excuses that was for Xtina's side. Take the Mary incident for an example, when they met Xtina rubbed Mary wrong and that's her feelings you cannot tell me she is wrong for that just like I can't tell you that Xtina was wrong for feeling disappointed when she first met Mariah. Honestly, I have no idea what her being on drugs at that time or not had anything to do with the argument in the first place, its like your pointing that out so it won't validated what she said originally IT IS WHAT IS.
"Had enough? That's what you said last post Yet you came running back. Wouldn't be surprised if you came back for more "
► This is turning into a dragged out, repetitive argument so unless you have some evidence or non assumption-based response........bye. This was fun ◄
You brought evidence and new argument so I replied, but you tried it anyway. Oh and thanks for the new sig
"I wasn't the one making allegations that I couldn't back, that was you. Where is it that I need to prove what I said? All the things that I said are public knowledge, its not my fault that you want to overlook it."
Im talking about the Pink, Kelly, Avril things, etc like even if your last post saying that the Avril thing was a misinterpretation when I didn't even say that and that didn't even happen.
"As for "proof of Kanye's success without radio" I cannot prove something that didn't happen. Doesn't matter what factor goes into it after the Taylor incident and after the Bush incident he is still selling, now that I can prove. "
And look at any mainstream artist who lost radio play, no matter how acclaimed they were and see what their sales were for proof. I'm unaware of any mainstream artist who was able to sell long term without radio that needed it in the first place. If you can show me, I'd be glad to look at it like that. Kanye surviving the Taylor incident and Bush incident is a given*His radio audience doesn't depend on that. Now look at what happened with The Dixie Chicks when they got anti Bush
"I think I found my new sig Not you coming for anyone because of being biased You're the last person on this thread that should preach anyone about being biased and fair. You act like you were being fair in all your assessments of the others when you just angled it for Xtina's benefit."
The thing about sigs is that they're supposed to be somewhat funny. Me saying Im unbiased is funny? Talk about a joke for one. I've actually had other people tell me that I'm pretty unbiased here, so unless you can show how I "angled this for Xtinas benefit", your bias lives on.
"Where did I say this? Actually, I didn't comment on the validity of your explanations, I just pointed out that you made excuses in all the situations. I'm sure that there were incidents that Xtina was being attacked and I'm sure there are incidents that she was the one attacking, ITS LIFE so get over it. I'm not here for ever excuse you made up you can go home and go straight to sleep with all that. Its like you're incapable of saying she was wrong or she has personality problems. I have no problems admitting that Mariah was wrong in some of her behavior (such as Nicki and J-Lo) you on the other hand "
So you agree that there were incidents that Xtina was attacked first? We agree there. And then you say there are incidents where Xtina may have attacked first. Did I disagree with that one? If you actually read what I wrote, I said if Xtina had a situation like the situation where Mariah blatantly shaded JLO, then I would agree Xtina was in the wrong, but none of the situations you brought up with the Avril, Pink, Kelly thing are like that.
If it wasn't for the JLO thing, I could easily say you're doing the same exact thing, making excuses for every situation (the Nicki, Madonna, Eminem, Taylor, etc) situation. Like I said, show me an incident like the JLO thing with Mariah and I have no problem admitting that. You seem to not understand me saying that. So read that again. Show me an incident like the JLO thing with Mariah for Xtina in a similar situation and I have no problem admitting that. So don't act ilke Im incapable of admitting when she's wrong or I could say you're incapable of admitting she's wrong in those 4 situations, I could throw in another incident besides the JLO one to substitute that
If you still don't get what I'm saying you really have trouble comprehending and/or are still looking at this from such an extreme biased viewed.
"I understand both of their situations, so I get what happened with them. But dont try to act like one situation deserves more explanation and one can be dismissed and that assumptions can be taken as fact. Otherwise, then the same could be said of Mariah's situations. That's all Im saying."
"Now this makes sense, I'm sure there is both sides of the story but I'm not sure you understand that because in all your arguments you brought excuses that was for Xtina's side. Take the Mary incident for an example, when they met Xtina rubbed Mary wrong and that's her feelings you cannot tell me she is wrong for that just like I can't tell you that Xtina was wrong for feeling disappointed when she first met Mariah. Honestly, I have no idea what her being on drugs at that time or not had anything to do with the argument in the first place, its like your pointing that out so it won't validated what she said originally IT IS WHAT IS. "
Now Im glad you're being rational and not getting all emotional and biased. Because I think we actually agree more than we disagree. Or at the very least agree more than we think lol. Yes, Im not denying that for whatever reason or not, Mary felt offended. Just like Xtina felt offended with Mariah. Whether their perceptions are reality or not, is a different discussion, but you can't take away how the incident made them feel.
What Im saying is that if people are going to be like Xtina was in the wrong, Mary J must absolutely be right, they shouldn't act like Mary was some innocent angel. She had her own demons at the time. If people are going to come to conclusions about Xtinas "reputation", the same hold true for MJ
""Had enough? That's what you said last post Yet you came running back. Wouldn't be surprised if you came back for more "
► This is turning into a dragged out, repetitive argument so unless you have some evidence or non assumption-based response........bye. This was fun ◄
You brought evidence and new argument so I replied, but you tried it anyway. Oh and thanks for the new sig"
When someone says they've had enough, that usually means not responding what anyone else says. But enjoy the sig
It's not about all that stuff. It's not about having the "x factor" or being "nice" and "genuine".
If you don't inspire people you will bore them. They will get tired of you. This is why Kanye West does so well. He is a really inspiring artist. People love to see what he'll wear, what he'll say. He's exciting. You have to give people what they want. Something to admire.
What are you even talking about? No one is even pretending or acting that Mary is some innocent angel. It's you trying to victimize Christina by bringing up irrelevant points about Mary and other artists. Everyone is well-aware of Mary's past, and she herself has acknowledged that she had a messed up attitude and realized that she had to change for the better. None of that changes the point at hand that Mary indeed had a disagreement with Christina, and it doesn't invalidate anything else. Bringing up the fact that Mary was a drug user and had demons don't make what she said untrue or makes your point valid. Besides, how many people have openly said negative things about Mary's attitude - the same attitude that Mary has openly spoken about? When you can come up with a number, compare it to the number that have done the same to Christina, then maybe your point about Mary not being some innocent angel would be relevant to the conversation.
I think what atrlster is trying to say is tha Xtina isn't the bitch everyone thinks she is. More like she's a normal bitch, and we all know the pop divas are natural bitches. My opinion is that Xtina is a tempered girl not unkind to others and has an ego, not more than anyone would think, just that she's not so socially smart as other pop divas.
I mean you can have a stone heart and still be perceived as being nice only if you're socially smart, like Katy Perry.
I mean one of the reasons I dislike Katy Perry is that in exchange of Xtina, maybe she knows how to act socially, but she's a royal bitch at heart.
For example if Gaga was on her shoes instead, she would have hugged the reporter back.
Madonna was shady all her career and she still had the best career ever
Christina's relationship with her peers is a bit off. It might have ruined some aspects but i doubt it.
For example you always hear how artist say Beyonce is so nice and genuine. You only have to look at what Jessie J, Alexandra Burke, Leona Lewis, Florence, Rita, Adele say about Bey being such a sweetheart with them.
everyone will have thier own experience just because beyonce is nice to some people doesn't mean she is nice to everyone. I had a professor who was nice to everyone but was super rude to me for no reason
I think what atrlster is trying to say is tha Xtina isn't the bitch everyone thinks she is. More like she's a normal bitch, and we all know the pop divas are natural bitches. My opinion is that Xtina is a tempered girl not unkind to others and has an ego, not more than anyone would think, just that she's not so socially smart as other pop divas.
I mean you can have a stone heart and still be perceived as being nice only if you're socially smart, like Katy Perry.
I mean one of the reasons I dislike Katy Perry is that in exchange of Xtina, maybe she knows how to act socially, but she's a royal bitch at heart.
For example if Gaga was on her shoes instead, she would have hugged the reporter back.
that doesn't make his career stable. He had a mini comeback in 2010/11 with huge radio hits but then like most comebacks it didn't last long. His antics made the comeback hype fall that much quicker. Now he is just based off of shock value. Serving me Britney spears circa 2006/7 realness. Hopefully he can make a huge splash again.
That was my point! It was a rumor much like your "counter-proofs" 
This was fun 
for you finally being able to back up what you've said 
So now you have something to add to that racked up "Mariah said it too" argument. Great for you 
unbelievable, I've had enough.
Oh and thanks for the new sig