Impact, I'd say. Because it was not something that influeced a specific person, but general movements in the industry. Even people who did not check for Janet were following those trends. Mariah herself did interludes, recorded music reminiscing of NJS in her first albums, and did dance breaks on her tours, Janet style. (I don't remember if she included breaks in the album versions, though...)
Mariah did dance breaks? Really? Do you mean the dancing in Fantasy or something else
And how would influence be defined here? Like what would some examples of that be
Oh, go to sleep. You're just trolling now. You know Janet's influence over all them pop girls, I don't need to say it. And yes, she did those dance breaks. Good or bad, she tried to fit in the trend.
Oh, go to sleep. You're just trolling now. You know Janet's influence over all them pop girls, I don't need to say it. And yes, she did those dance breaks. Good or bad, she tried to fit in the trend.
What? LOL Are you crazy? Talk about being OVERLY sensitive.
There was no trolling or malicious intent. I was really trying to see how people were trying to differentiate between impact and influence. I know I'm not the only one in this thread who was confused by them. I know about her "influence", but I wasn't sure where people would place that and that's what Im asking.
According to acclaimedmusic.net neither were in the top 50 acclaimed albums of the years they were released. I wouldn't exactly call that acclaimed.
ffff
You do know @cclaimedmusic .net is a farce right? Janet is lower than Britney after all.
Quote:
Butterfly received generally acclaim from music critics. Nathan Brackett, senior editor of Rolling Stone and author of The Rolling Stone Album Guide, praised the album's producers and Carey's "more controlled" vocals. Brackett noticed a connection between much of Carey's lyrics and her separation from Mottola. Jon Pareles, editor of The New York Times called Butterfly "a new turn" in Carey's career. Aside from commenting on its deviance from Carey's previous work, he noted songs in which Carey alludes to her failed marriage to Mottola, such as "Butterfly" and "Close My Eyes". He wrote "Since Carey writes her own lyrics, fans might expect a glimpse of marital discord or pride in her new-found autonomy." David Browne from Entertainment Weekly gave Butterfly a B- in his review. Browne wrote: "In Breakdown, [Carey] demonstrates she can match the staccato, lite-reggae phrasing of her guests, two members of Bone Thugs-N-Harmony." He described an increased intimacy in the music but noted the arrangement made it difficult to hear the lyrics Carey was singing. "Butterfly is undeniably pleasant, with little of the all-conquering bombast usually associated with Carey. But it's also the last thing anyone would have expected from her: blandly self-effacing."
In a retrospective review of the album, Stephen Thomas Erlewine from Allmusic appreciated the new direction of Carey's music, commenting on the increased urban feel of the work. He described the record as "a collection of hit singles surrounded by classy filler" and "while [the songs] are all well-crafted, many of them blend together upon initial listening". However, he noted an increased control in her voice which led him to describe some of the ballads such as 'Butterfly' and 'Breakdown' as among her best work. He said Butterfly was one of Carey's best records and she was "continuing to improve and refine her music, which makes her a rarity among her '90s peers." Rich Juzwiak from Slant Magazine awarded the album a score of four and a half out of five stars, calling it "elegant" and praising Carey's mature vocals
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Daydream received very positive reviews from music critics. Reviews applauded the little changes of style from previous Carey releases, some of whom adding that it is her best record. Bill Lamb from About.com gave the album four out of five stars. Lamb complimented the album's direction and called it a "near-perfect blend of uptempo R&B/hip hop and lush ballads." Specifically, Lamb highly praised "Fantasy", noting that "The bumping beat of Tom Tom Club's classic "Genius Of Love" underlying "Fantasy" is utterly irresistible." Another song which Lamb heavily praised was "One Sweet Day", where he called Carey and Boyz II Men a "perfect vocal match" and wrote "together they turn what could be a rather morose ballad into a truly inspiring and hopeful performance." Allmusic's senior editor, Stephen Thomas Erlewine awarded the album four and a half out of five stars. Erlewine called Daydream her "best record yet" and wrote, "Mariah Carey certainly knows how to construct an album. Positioning herself directly between urban R&B with tracks like "Fantasy," and adult contemporary with songs like "One Sweet Day," a duet with Boyz II Men, Carey appeals to both audiences equally because of the sheer amount of craft and hard work she puts into her albums. Daydream is her best record to date, featuring a consistently strong selection of songs and a remarkably impassioned performance by Carey. Daydream demonstrates that Carey continues to perfect her craft and that she has earned her status as an R&B/pop diva." In his review for the album, Ken Tucker from Entertainment Weekly called Daydream "her best record since her 1990 debut," writing, "in fact, it's easily the best collection Carey has put out since her self-titled 1990 debut, the album Daydream most resembles in its emphasis on R&B grooves." Tucker specifically complimented "One Sweet Day", "Always Be My Baby", "Forever" and "Daydream Interlude (Fantasy Sweet Dub Mix)", writing "One Sweet Day, her collaboration with Boyz II Men, radiates a breezy sexiness that Carey, for all the brazen hussiness of her public persona, rarely permits herself to reveal in song. I like the relaxed swing of "Always Be My Baby", and the brisk waltz tempo of Forever. But it's on what many Carey fans will probably find the most throwaway cut, "Daydream Interlude (Fantasy Sweet Dub Mix)", that the singer really defines herself. At her best, as she is on this clipped, spunky track, Carey is a disco diva for the '90s, a worthy successor to trailblazing women like Donna Summer and Vicki Sue Robinson, R&B singers with an affinity for the endless groove."
Stephen Holden, editor of The New York Times, gave the album a positive review. Holden wrote the following regarding Daydream "Ms. Carey's songwriting has taken a leap forward, becoming more relaxed, sexier and less reliant on thudding cliches." Holden praised "Fantasy", which he wrote "with 'Fantasy', Ms. Carey glides confidently into the territory where gospel-flavored pop-soul meets light hip-hop and recorded some of the most gorgeously spun choral music to be found on a contemporary album." Additionally, he complimented "One Sweet Day", "Melt Away", "Always Be My Baby" and "Underneath the Stars", calling them "the best on the album." People gave the album a positive review, calling it "her fourth and best album." Additionally, People praised the album and it's songs, writing "Daydream vaults over its pop predecessors because the material is both funkier and mellower. Carey also has better control of her instrument—her voice evincing greater muscularity and agility.
Daydream also appears on The Rock & Roll Hall of Fame's Top 200 albums List. c.07. But, continue to believe your lies.
Quote:
Originally posted by tcweh
- Selling more albums Outside the US then in - 6th biggest selling female artist globally
- The 4th artist with the most Global top 10's according to mediatraffic
- Biggest selling female single in South Africa
- 2nd Biggest black female touring artist ever
- Biggest debut tour by a solo artist ever
- Sold out arenas and Stadiums across Asia, Europe, Oceania and Africa throughout her career - 20 #1's in Japan (Tokyo)
- Fastest sellout in the History of Tokyo Dome (7 minutes)
- 2nd Biggest selling female single in Europe of 1998 behind Celnie's 'My Heart Will Go On'
Your so right, local bitch.
What?
I really can't @ 20 #1's.
Janet doesn't have any #1's in Japan.
Mariah has the most for any foreign artist and it's only 5.
Quote:
Originally posted by Lately 1814
Impact would be music being used in pop culture (TV, movies, commercials, etc).
Influence in music is about how music at any point effects the sound of the future.
So, Mariah wins both then?
Influence is also when you/music inspire(d) the future generation.
Quote:
Originally posted by Chimier
IWDWS was bigger because Whitney's pop appeal had been fully established and it reaped the rewards. It didn't make anyone forget about her ballads, especially not GLOA. I already gave examples of GLOA being referenced in moments of pop culture.
I already established that the music of the 80s doesn't sound like the music of the 90s. That's because music is ALWAYS changing and that in no way refutes anything I said. Once again, I can use YOUR logic: IWALY sounded nothing like VOL. Same goes for UHB and MHWGO. So how are they part of a 90s trend started by VOL? Oh.
And once again you would have completely missed the point. Oh.
Quote:
Originally posted by Chimier
The number of artists who started making music based on Whitney's blueprint say differently.
And here's where I can use YOUR logic and say, how? Whitney created no blueprint that wasn't already there. She was a power belter, like many others before her. You're the one saying Whitney created a big voiced trend in the 80s that carried over into the 90s, when #1, Whitney's most successful single of the 80s decade was nothing like said trend. And #2 The biggest pop stars of that time did not recognize said non-existent trend. If GLOA started a drift from the typical 80s musical climate at the time, that would be able to be SEEN. And it's not crystal, boo.
Quote:
Originally posted by Chimier
I said VOL was SAID to sound like Whitney because it had similar vocal and musical feel to her own songs, not that it was a direct "result". WHITNEY HOUSTON, not GLOA, started the trend of BECAUSE of the vocal stylings and musical form of her ballads, SUCH AS GLOA. That's ONE ballad. Whitney had other ballads of a similar sweeping style, released AND unreleased.
Unreleased singles and personalities don't start musical trends in pop music. Singers from pre 1970 don't start "trends" in different decades, when they're not even releasing material. That's why your entire argument is wrong.
Quote:
Originally posted by Chimier
[strike]And you, again, are WRONG. Melisma had already been popularized. "Rococo" melisma had been used by many artists in popular music for decades.
Whitney's singles have EVERYTHING to do with music in the 90s. She created a blueprint with her music: sweeping, big ballads and virtuosic uptempos. The key changes, the big long modulations, the melismatic passages and gospel embellishments featured in Whitney's performances (studio AND live) had an immense effect on the industry. Execs went looking for the next Whitney Houston, told their own female singers to make songs and sing LIKE Whitney Houston. Stephanie Mills, Karyn White, Miki Howard, Wendy Moten, Taylor Dane, Vanessa Williams, Oleta Adams and so on, ALL were compared to Whitney Houston, either for following her blueprint musically or for similarities in vocal delivery.[strike]
Anybody who had a big voice was compared to Whitney, duh. That still has absolutely nothing to do with the way the climate was in 1990. Going by your logic, I could say Whitney started virtually every midtempo/ballad trend post 85. I'm convinced you don't know what a "trend" is.
__
Quote:
Originally posted by Chimier
Really? So tell me how Mariah's riffs exceed singers like Aretha in terms of rhythmic delivery, the following of the chord changes etc.
You know you've lost an argument when you start talking about flow. "Delivery" is even more subjective than emoting. I'll play anyway though:
Quote:
Originally posted by Chimier
They aren't. Because there is no "Magna Carta" of melisma. Melisma, in all its forms: simple, intermediate and complex, was already popular. Freddie Jackson, Whitney Houston, Luther Vandross, The Winans, The Clark Sisters, Aretha Franklin, Stevie Wonder, Anita Baker...ALL very well known for their ornate gospel/blues-ish melismas, embellishments, runs and decorations. It was already common in popular music BECAUSE of such singers with connections to the church, first established by the blues, jazz and gospel singers of old, spread out by the soul singers of the next generation, and then finally made commonplace by the black R&B and pop singers of the 80s who had great crossover appeal and success.
According to YOU Chimier
Not according to actual music critics. And you keep completely missing the point. Melisma was NOT the "thing" of the 80s. Coincidentally, right after VoL in 1990, it became the "thing" of the 90s.
Quote:
Originally posted by Chimier
Check Aretha's ENTIRE discography lol. Check her performance of Amazing Grace, check the beginning riff in Young, Gifted and Black, her 1989 version of Think, It's Just Your Love, I Get High, Precious Lord from when she was just 12 years old.
I just....wow. Have you ever read music articles, reviews pre-1990? Or read books that talk about the black musical idiom? Melisma was used in all types of music, from gospel to country, at the time Mariah Carey hit the scene.
Quote:
Check Aretha's ENTIRE discography lol
Quote:
Check Aretha's ENTIRE discography lol
Quote:
Check Aretha's ENTIRE discography lol
Quote:
Check Aretha's ENTIRE discography lol
You're clinging to Aretha, claiming her to be the founding mother. The master of melisma. Refuting VoL as the Magna Carta of Melisma in her favor and yet you can't supply one example that showcases what I asked. None of those performances are VoL level and you know it. But, how about we get back to other singers you also claimed trumped VoL.
Quote:
Literally point me to ANY song in Chaka's discography, or Minnie's, or Aretha's discography, or whoever else that shows the absolute mastery of melismatic patterned singing as VoL. That shows the versatility, the scaling, and the fluctuation.
I know I saw you say Stacy Lattishaw, so don't forget her too.
What? LOL Are you crazy? Talk about being OVERLY sensitive.
There was no trolling or malicious intent. I was really trying to see how people were trying to differentiate between impact and influence. I know I'm not the only one in this thread who was confused by them. I know about her "influence", but I wasn't sure where people would place that and that's what Im asking.
It just seemed you were pushing the buttons. Either ways, I already stated what I consider 'impact': something generalized upon the industry. Influence, IMO, is more specific, like Ciara's or Leona Lewis's inspirations for their own careers.
PLUS this kind of threads are **** and putting all stans against Janet: Rihanna's, Beyoncé's, Mariah's, Whitney's. The Janet obsessed people should STOP. Homegirl is chillin with her arab d***. Either ways, mostly because Janet stans take the bait and start diminishing them other girls, like people her talking **** of butterfly and daydream, ICONIC albums.
Commercially, Mariah has a bigger impact but critically, Janet has a bigger impact. Her concept albums in the 90s>>>
I'd say its about even. Mariah's influence on singers is as amazing as Janet's influence on dancers.
They both changed the world of music and raised the bar for the better. The artists of today can only dream to have such a classic song like Rhythm Nation or Vision of Love
Janet didn't just influence dancers, she changed the way pop stars perform. She shifted what it meant to do a complete stage show and her impact on female pop, musically and visually, is very clear. She also changed R&B: songs and videos like Control, WHYDFML and and The Pleasure Principle laid the groundwork for acts like TLC and Mary J. Blige.
And once again you would have completely missed the point. Oh.
Uh, no. You said there was no way GLOA could've started the trend because VOL sounds nothing like it. So again, going by YOUR LOGIC, IWALY, UMH and MHWGO couldn't have been part of the supposed trend started by VOL because they sound nothing like it. I haven't missed the point. You just didn't make a good one.
Quote:
Originally posted by Praise Mariallah
And here's where I can use YOUR logic and say, how? Whitney created no blueprint that wasn't already there. She was a power belter, like many others before her. You're the one saying Whitney created a big voiced trend in the 80s that carried over into the 90s, when #1, Whitney's most successful single of the 80s decade was nothing like said trend.
And again, you are WRONG. Whitney was not only a power belter, she was for the MTV generation, hence her MIX of grandiose power ballads and virtuosic dance-pop uptempos. Her ballads influenced the way female singers would deliver ballads after: mixing gospel embellishments with a pop sensibility. SHE REVITALIZED the power ballad, like I said. In the SAME way, her uptempos influenced the way vocal divas would sing dance-pop songs.
Now if Whitney was a power belter like many BEFORE her, how can you credit Mariah for the trend of power ballads in the 90s? Once again, makes no sense.
Quote:
"Of her first album's ten cuts, six were ballads. This chanteuse [Houston] had to fight for air play with hard rockers. The young lady had to stand uncowed in the locker room of macho rock. The soul strutter had to seduce a music audience that anointed few black artists with superstardom. [...] She was a phenomenon waiting to happen, a canny tapping of the listener's yen for a return to the musical middle. And because every new star creates her own genre, her success has helped otherblacks, other women, other smooth singers find an avid reception in the pop marketplace"- TIME MAGAZINE, Richard Corliss, The Prom Queen of Soul, May 13th. 1987
"For the last eight years, Ms. Houston has reigned as the foremost interpreter of the sort of stentorian pop ballad that paints romantic love in grandiose, semi-religious terms"- NY Times, Review/Pop; For Whitney Houston, Showy Doesn't Count: The Show Is the Voice, Stephen Holden, July 22nd 1993
"Carey mimics Houston's stylish mixture of light dance pop and synthesized ballads so adeptly one half expects her to break into a chorus of "How Will I Know."- Kentucky New Era, August 13th, 1990
Why do you keep on mentioning Whitney's most successful 1980s single? That in NO way refutes the fact that Whitney's style of balladry was influential.
Whitney Houston's influence on singers is based on her and singing music as a whole, ESPECIALLY the way she delivered her BALLADS.
Quote:
Originally posted by Praise Mariallah
And #2 The biggest pop stars of that time did not recognize said non-existent trend. If GLOA started a drift from the typical 80s musical climate at the time, that would be able to be SEEN. And it's not crystal, boo.
Quote:
"When I heard the demo (demonstration record) of `I'll Always Love You,' I hated it," she said. "I said: `It's a Whitney (Houston) throwaway"- (Taylor Dane) Taylor Dayne looks lovely, sings rough, Chicago Sun-Times, Dennis Hunt, February 16, 1988,
Side-note: Taylor's only #1 hit Love Will Lead You Back was written for Whitney Houston, but given to Taylor Dane.
You also missed the quote I posted from Jimmy Buffett, as well as the quotes from Brenda Lee and Nancy Wilson crediting Whitney for bringing back the ballad.
Quote:
"She's a very classy lady and a very good singer with roots in gospel music that show through. She's bringing back ballads, and I'm glad she's around to do that."- (Brenda Lee on Whitney Houston) Brenda Lee hopes `Music!' will lead to Broadway, Chicago Sun-Times, February 26th, 1988
"I think it started with Whitney Houston," [Nancy Wilson] explains. "Not so much that she sounds like me but because the singer was being heard over the music again. We were hearing big ballads and great songs again. That helped pave the way for the rest."- Wilson, Ballad Back, The Washington Post: September 21st, 1990
"The way it is now, if it isn't a dance song or a love song that sounds like Whitney Houston, you're in trouble," says singer Jimmy Buffett."- DANCE VS ROCK THE MUSIC YOU CAN MOVE YOUR FEET TO IS GETTING ALL THE TOP 40 PLAY, The Boston Globe, August 26th, 1990
It was so commonplace in the late 80s to find singers who were told to sing like Whitney Houston, even Liza Minnelli mentioned in 1989 how her producers didn't make her sing like Whitney when she was recording her new album.
Quote:
"The whole album has a kind of dark quality to it - a little divine decadence,'' she [Minnelli] said. ''In making it, no one wanted to compromise, and we respected each other. They didn't put effects on my voice, and nobody asked me to sing like Whitney Houston or to do black licks that I would have sounded uncomfortable doing."- Liza Minnelli (Stephen Holden, New York Times: The Pop Life, August 23rd, 1989)
You also missed my points on how record execs were out looking for the next Whitney and how they were forcing female vocal divas to sing and make music like her (see my Rachelle Ferrell quote).
It's not crystal to YOU because you obviously are stuck in a bubble. The fact that you're not familiar with the musical and vocal stylings of people like Aretha, Chaka, Freddie Jackson, Luther, Clark Sisters, Stevie, Donny, Minnie, Deniece Williams, Teena Marie or music pre-1990 is glaringly evident in your posts.
Quote:
Originally posted by Praise Mariallah
Unreleased singles and personalities don't start musical trends in pop music. Singers from pre 1970 don't start "trends" in different decades, when they're not even releasing material. That's why your entire argument is wrong.
WOW.....ALBUMS, as a whole, can have influence. Michael Jackson's Thriller, as a WHOLE, is influential. Not just the released songs, but the unreleased songs. ALBUMS represent the overall musical FEEL of an artist, and other artists/labels/record execs listen to the ENTIRE ALBUMS to create that feel for themselves. The fact that you've stuck to released songs, ignored unreleased ones, as well LIVE PERFORMANCES shows that you haven't a clue. Whitney's influence stems from her ENTIRE singing and musical style: studio, live, released, unreleased. Same goes for any other influential artist. Sorry, but musicians back in the day listened to the artist's ENTIRE work.
Quote:
Originally posted by Praise Mariallah
Anybody who had a big voice was compared to Whitney, duh. That still has absolutely nothing to do with the way the climate was in 1990. Going by your logic, I could say Whitney started virtually every midtempo/ballad trend post 85. I'm convinced you don't know what a "trend" is.
It wasnt just having a "big voice". It was also the similarities in vocal and musical style. There are TONS of reviews out there from the 80s and 90s comparing female singers to Whitney due their singing and music being reminiscent of her own.
"That still has absolutely nothing to do with the way the climate was in 1990."- Shame artists and critics of that time say different.
I specifically stated that Whitney REVITALIZED the power ballad with her style. And seeing as how other midtempos/uptempos and other kinds of ballads existed BEFORE Whitney and were popular when she made her debut, you really couldn't say that.
Quote:
Originally posted by Praise Mariallah
You know you've lost an argument when you start talking about flow. "Delivery" is even more subjective than emoting. I'll play anyway though
What are you talking about? I said RHYTHMIC DELIVERY (the sense of rhythm that one uses when singing), not "flow" or "emotion". Reading is fundamental, understanding is necessary.
Quote:
Originally posted by Praise Mariallah
According to YOU Chimier
Not according to me. According to artists of that time AND music HISTORIANS. You sit here talking about "music critics", most of whom just sit around saying which albums they like. Popular MUSIC HISTORIANS, people who have actually studied the history of popular music, have published books, articles and so on about the black musical idiom and how it has impacted the popular music world. So my talk about melisma is CORRECT. I'll post it again.
Quote:
Melisma, in all its forms: simple, intermediate and complex, was already popular. Freddie Jackson, Whitney Houston, Luther Vandross, The Winans, The Clark Sisters, Aretha Franklin, Stevie Wonder, Anita Baker...ALL very well known for their ornate gospel/blues-ish melismas, embellishments, runs and decorations. It was already common in popular music BECAUSE of such singers with connections to the church, first established by the blues, jazz and gospel singers of old, spread out by the soul singers of the next generation, and then finally made commonplace by the black R&B and pop singers of the 80s who had great crossover appeal and success.
There's a reason why it is talked about and studied by music historians. There is PROOF of this in the vocal music of jazz, blues, gospel music etc. All you have to do is go back and LISTEN.
You're so limited to "music critics", you think they're gods. LOL.
So you're saying that Freddie Jackson, Whitney Houston, Luther Vandross, The Winans, The Clark Sisters, Aretha Franklin, Stevie Wonder, Anita Baker WEREN'T known for their melismas and ornate embellishments, even though I've posted review excerpts from THAT time that talk about these artists and their use of gospel decorations. #DEAD!!!! Not according to THESE reviews:
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"This collection features all of the songs from her breakthrough "Rapture" album in engagingly extended versions. Among the highlights:...the melismatic twists of "Caught Up in the Rapture"- New on Tape, The Washington Post, Nov 26, 1987
"[Regina] Belle is being promoted as part of the black vocal style, whose diva is Anita Baker. Belle does have a fondness for...melismatic embellishments, similar to Baker's"- All By Myself (Regina Belle), Spokane Chronicle, Jun 5th, 1987
"During his short set on Wednesday, the singer [Freddie Jackson] embellished love lyrics with extended melismas, vocal shivers and spontaneous hesitations that cut against the material's formal rigidity and communicated a winning emotional immediacy."- NY Times, CONCERT: FREDDIE JACKSON AND MELBA MOORE PERFORM, STEPHEN HOLDEN, July 27th, 1985
"Mr. Jackson is a master of the cooing, long-lined melisma that constantly changes color, and in concert hits like ''Rock Me Baby'' are drawn out into elaborate vocal showpieces."- NY Times, POP AND JAZZ GUIDE, Stephen Holden
"Of course, the sort of freewheeling, melismatic inventiveness with which Mr. Vandross embellished the Bacharach-David chestnut ''A House Is Not a Home'' as well as the self-penned ''Forever, for Always, for Love'' would not be tolerated in an opera house nowadays."- POP: LUTHER VANDROSS, Stephen Holden, November 14, 1982
"[Bobby] Womack ornaments his songs with riffs and melisma"- Bobby Womack: Soul of All Ages, The Boston Phoenix, December 24th, 1985
"Mr. Wonder doesn't soft-pedal his virtuosity. He revels in the long, elaborate melismas that he can sing on sustained notes"- NY Times, CONCERT: STEVIE WONDER, Jon Pareles, September 28, 1986
Quote:
Originally posted by Praise Mariallah
Not according to actual music critics. And you keep completely missing the point. Melisma was NOT the "thing" of the 80s. Coincidentally, right after VoL in 1990, it became the "thing" of the 90s.
So YOU say, but articles from the 80s say different. As do other sources:
Quote:
"Gospel is never far from the surface of American culture. Wherever black churches bind families and communities, a thriving, ecstatic performing tradition has evolved through generations - a tradition as familiar, even to nonbelievers, as the high-flown melismas of Whitney Houston or the oratorical cadences of Jesse Jackson."- John Pareles, New York Times: POP/JAZZ; An All-Star Weekend Of Gospel, April 15th, 1988
"In recent decades pentatonic melismas deriving from gospel traditions have become very common in recordings by such solo divas as Whitney Houston who, for instance, on the word ‘much’ in the phrase ‘I wish I didn’t like it so much’ from So Emotional (Houston 1987), launches into a florid pentatonic melisma consisting of at least six short separate notes each time the phrase occurs in the lead-up to the chorus. These virtuoso techniques had become such a mannerism of abandon by the 1980s that they were easily parodied, for example by film composer Nile Rodgers in the ‘Soul Glow’ shampoo jingle from the Eddy Murphy movie Coming to America (1988), or by Frank Zappa who, in You Are What You Is (1981), set prosaic concepts like ‘appropriate’ and ‘the post office’ to ecstatically delivered pentatonic gospel melismas."- http://www.tagg.org/articles/xpdfs/melisma.pdf
Quote:
Originally posted by Praise Mariallah
You're clinging to Aretha, claiming her to be the founding mother. The master of melisma. Refuting VoL as the Magna Carta of Melisma in her favor and yet you can't supply one example that showcases what I asked. None of those performances are VoL level and you know it. But, how about we get back to other singers you also claimed trumped VoL.
LOL this wasn't a competition of "whose melisma is more complex?" That takes an understanding of chords, scales, tempo, meter etc., things most music critics have NO idea about. As long as it's got a lot of notes squeezed into a bar, it's complex.
And once again, you won't mind explaining to me Mariah's rhythmic delivery, how she moves with the chord changes.
I didn't say they "trumped" VOL. Where do you read these things? I said those artists have sang many elaborate melismatic passages BEFORE anyone even knew who Mariah was. I also challenged you to tell me how her riffs exceed theres.
And you obviously didn't read my last post well(again), because I mentioned a bunch of Aretha songs and performances PRE-Mariah where she uses melisma.
Quote:
Originally posted by Praise Mariallah
I know I saw you say Stacy Lattishaw, so don't forget her too.
I said Stacy Lattisaw was forced to record an album of Whitney-reject songs, not that she used melisma. However, yes, Stacy has used it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ZTJ9lnwjzw#t=3m36
And she has other examples. Go and find them if you want.
Why do Whitney fans always try to discredit Mariah? Whitney is the voice but Mariah is talented and was always respectful to Whitney.... like damn.
Both are influential, one for vocals and one for dance
Why do Whitney fans always try to discredit Mariah? Whitney is the voice but Mariah is talented and was always respectful to Whitney.... like damn.
Both are influential, one for vocals and one for dance
Lately1814 is a Stevie/janet stan and Chimier loves Mariah he isn't discrediting her. It's a healthy debate Don't take it too seriously.
Why do Whitney fans always try to discredit Mariah? Whitney is the voice but Mariah is talented and was always respectful to Whitney.... like damn.
Both are influential, one for vocals and one for dance
I discredited her? Because I said she didn't innovate melisma, start the trend of big pop power ballads and gave sources from those times to support my statement? K.
LOL Are you crazy? Talk about being OVERLY sensitive. 
Don't take it too seriously. 