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Discussion: "Love the sinner, not the sin"
Member Since: 3/15/2009
Posts: 4,228
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"Love the sinner, not the sin"
What do you think of this saying? Often spoken by religious people when talking about gays.
I got into a big argument with my gay religious friend last night about how I think that it's a cop out and not good enough for me. He kept saying that if people can treat gays with respect and treat them no differently than any other humans, but still think homosexuality is "wrong" (because their religion tells them that), then that's okay. And I wouldn't accept that and I don't think that makes them good people and it makes me hate that religion. So what do you think? Did I overreact?
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Member Since: 12/1/2010
Posts: 23,572
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I wouldn't call that person a friend
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Member Since: 5/21/2009
Posts: 11,151
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I wouldn't call it an overreaction, you have the right to your truth just as anyone else.
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Member Since: 5/27/2016
Posts: 5,054
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No you're right in the absolute.
But your friend solution is the more practicable in the real world.
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Member Since: 8/6/2015
Posts: 5,608
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It comes off more than a little condescending. I think if you're going to treat someone with respect and kindness, you shouldn't stop to let them know that they're not in a position to assume benevolence from you.
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Member Since: 8/7/2015
Posts: 2,588
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I think everyone is much more than their sexuality and shouldn't let religion come in between friends or family. But if you grew up struggling with homophobia then you may take it more personal, which is fine.
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Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 15,921
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at this point, there's nothing left to try being reasonable with him. It's embarrassing, especially coming from a person who is gay to say such stupid mess. I'd never understand women, gays and other people who follow religion that justifies their oppresion. What kind of lack of self-respect do you have?
It's quite sad if you think about it, there are other spiritualities that helps finding self-peace and hope in afterlife rather than choosing to follow such xenophobic faith.
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Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 4,059
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It's definitely condescending and patronizing. Two of the things I hate the most about someone.
They are still in the wrong no matter how political correct they try to sound, I wouldn't call those people friends.
If they don't agree with the way you love then they don't really care that much about you. At least, not as much as their so called religion.
Also, they shouldn't be the ones accepting you, or trying to. They absolutely have NO input in what you do with your life, especially when it comes to your intimacy/sexuality.
I LOATHE those people with those points of view.
Wake up, there's nothing for you to accept folks, no one is forcing you to go to bed with the same sex so why would you think it's acceptable to patronize someone who doesn't want to go to bed with the opposite?
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Member Since: 5/27/2016
Posts: 716
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But that "sin" is apart of who I am. The characteristics that the sin carries is... me. It is apart of me as a person. It is apart of my identity so therefore... you hate me as well. People who say "love the sinner, hate the sin" are basically saying "Hey!! It's okay that you're gay! I'll accept that and I accept you! Just don't kiss men. Don't have sex with men. Don't be attracted to men because that’s sinful and that's bad. But other than that you can totally be gay!!"
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Member Since: 5/27/2016
Posts: 1,840
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Some of you really need to learn to pick your battles.
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Member Since: 4/4/2014
Posts: 1,038
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Yes, you overreacted. Is it possible to love your mother but hate the fact that she's a racist? To love your daughter but hate that she's a thief? To love your friend but hate the fact that he's religious and homophobic?
You can love people yet hate their choices. You can love a sinner yet hate their sin.
Those who can love and respect people in spite of their differences are far more mature and tolerant than those who can't. You can probably learn a lot from your friend.
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Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 15,921
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Quote:
Originally posted by loveless
Yes, you overreacted. Is it possible to love your mother but hate the fact that she's a racist? To love your daughter but hate that she's a thief? To love your friend but hate the fact that he's religious and homophobic?
You can love people yet hate their choices. You can love a sinner yet hate their sin.
Those who can love and respect people in spite of their differences are far more mature and tolerant than those who can't. You can probably learn a lot from your friend.
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did you really just compare gays to racists and thiefs?
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Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 4,059
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Quote:
Originally posted by AvrilLaQueen
did you really just compare gays to racists and thiefs?
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It's embarassing I know.
Being a gay is not a since, not a choise. Just like being straight isn't neither one of those things.
People need to get over it and accept themselves rather than picking apart other people's lifes.
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ATRL Contributor
Member Since: 5/27/2016
Posts: 5,549
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That actually doesn't sound too bad to me, considering I have family and friends that outright hate gays.
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Member Since: 3/15/2009
Posts: 4,228
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Quote:
Originally posted by loveless
Yes, you overreacted. Is it possible to love your mother but hate the fact that she's a racist? To love your daughter but hate that she's a thief? To love your friend but hate the fact that he's religious and homophobic?
You can love people yet hate their choices. You can love a sinner yet hate their sin.
Those who can love and respect people in spite of their differences are far more mature and tolerant than those who can't. You can probably learn a lot from your friend.
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i'm just going to pretend this isn't a serious post
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ATRL Contributor
Member Since: 1/3/2014
Posts: 11,976
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You don't have to like all parts of a person. But you DO have to accept them. And if they are friends with you even though you're gay, they're already accepting that whether they like it or not.
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Member Since: 8/31/2013
Posts: 21,462
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Should have just said, "OK, I understand that. I mean, I like you, but I still think it's wrong to be ugly af like you are" or something along those lines.
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Member Since: 4/4/2014
Posts: 1,038
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Quote:
Originally posted by AvrilLaQueen
did you really just compare gays to racists and thiefs?
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Yep, all involve choices, which was my point.
Quote:
Originally posted by Six
It's embarassing I know.
Being a gay is not a since, not a choise. Just like being straight isn't neither one of those things.
People need to get over it and accept themselves rather than picking apart other people's lifes.
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As far as homosexuality is concerned, if you choose to entertain homosexual thoughts, choose to seek out homosexual relationships, and choose to identify as a homosexual, then you in effect choose to be gay. Attraction isn't a choice, but acting on your attraction is. And just because you're naturally attracted to someone/thing doesn't automatically mean you have to act on your attraction. Even our judicial system recognizes that, which is why pedophilia, beastality, etc are considered illegal.
If you choose to be gay and act on your same-sex attraction then that is your choice, but don't get mad at others if they don't agree with your choice, as I'm sure you don't agree with everybody else's choices 100℅ of the time
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Member Since: 5/27/2016
Posts: 6,297
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I use it to excuse my hoe behaviour
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ATRL Contributor
Member Since: 1/3/2014
Posts: 11,976
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Quote:
Originally posted by loveless
Yep, all involve choices, which was my point.
As far as homosexuality is concerned, if you choose to entertain homosexual thoughts, choose to seek out homosexual relationships, and choose to identify as a homosexual, then you in effect choose to be gay. Attraction isn't a choice, but acting on your attraction is. And just because you're naturally attracted to someone/thing doesn't automatically mean you have to act on your attraction. Even our judicial system recognizes that, which is why pedophilia, bestiality, etc are considered illegal.
If you choose to be gay and act on your same-sex attraction then that is your choice, but don't get mad at others if they don't agree with your choice, as I'm sure you don't agree with everybody else's choices 100℅ of the time
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Although this is true, that means that homosexuality is NOT a choice, since it is an attraction. Homosexual acts are technically a choice, true. But those who do such are no more at fault for this than the many Christians who "lust" over opposite genders and engage in ****ographic material. That's also considered a sin, so the cherry picking of one sin over another is laughable.
This is the same with same-sex marriage. Divorce due to reasons other than cheating is forbidden by the Bible; Christians are a huge population in the U.S. and get divorced at astronomical rates (somewhere near 40+%). Meanwhile, gays are only 2% of the population and maybe 30% will get married. So now tell me who's invalidating the sanctity of marriage again?
But anyways, no. You're being overly technical which helps nothing.
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