i don't care that you don't believe in God... thats on you homeboy! I'm not gonna attack you. I'm not gonna bash, roast, or call you the devil. Your beliefs are yours and yours alone. Keep in mind, this entire discussion was NOT created by me if you read through it. I simply stated my personal beliefs (on the subject matter), and it escalated from there.

And Kworbs post didn't even make sense! He doesn't even know the definition of a christian. What he said had no relevence whatsoever. So pointing his post out as "bringing the ----ing funk" is terribly laughable... same can be said for Pandora's

In the end, once again i'm the bad guy as i am the only outspoken straight christian, in a forum full of outspoken gay athiest. It's okay though, i'll wear that badge with honor!

I'm gonna go watch a movie... i'll see you guys later

Firstly, I never said that you started this. The fact is, the subject matter meant that this was going to happen no matter what and Dave probably knew this when he posted the thread. And, oh, silly me, of course, once again, Marquis is the GOOD GUY here and we're all just blasphemous atheists. Once again, silly Marquis is trying to make himself look like a martyr because people *gasp* do not agree with him about religion! Come on.

Onto my main points..

I don't know about MOST of the 2.3 billion, but just about everything else in this post is entirely accurate. How does Kworb's post not make any sense? I know quite a few people who label themselves as Christian but have never once taken the time, as Christians, to go to church and, you know, READ THE BIBLE. Nevermind the fact that The Bible is pretty much mandatory reading for anyone who calls themselves "Christian" in any way shape or form. It's kinda sickening, really, that people are just told what to believe and accept it out of fear of not being accepted, instead of going out and finding something to believe in for themselves instead.

Honestly, if I were really into religion, I would probably be an atheist. You're right. But here's the thing: I really don't care about religion, in any form. I don't care about Buddhism, Neo-Paganism or the Uniterian religion and I CERTAINLY don't care about Scientology. I don't believe that focusing on one specific belief is any better than focusing on a series of them. I don't believe at all that, just because somebody's gay, that means that he is blasphemous and will be destined for the bowels of hell. Being religious or not religious really should not matter. If you're not religious, if you don't believe in a supreme being, you don't believe in a supreme being and you're not religious. If you ARE religious and do believe in a supreme being...you're religious and you believe in a supreme being. It shouldn't matter at all but there are Jesus Freaks out there that simply won't accept that people have the right to believe whatever the flying **** they want to believe! It has gotten to the point where I am seriously scared to say something like this to someone who devoutly believes that there is a God, because I am afraid that I will be attacked by an angry mob and beaten to death just for what I BELIEVE in.

Yes, you have the right to believe in what you want to believe. But you also have the right to be a HUMAN BEING, religious or not, and you have the right to not be held down by one singular belief. We are all living, breathing people, deep down, and NO ONE should be badmouthed or hurt or even killed just because they do not believe in the same thing that you do. It is time for the Jesus Freaks out there to CALM THE **** DOWN and accept that people have different beliefs out there and there is nothing they can do to change their minds.

..Wow, I went from trying to defend Kworb to something else entirely. But I guess, in the context of the topic, that's okay.

EDIT: And before you reply back, Marquis, believe me, while the whole reason I got into that rant was because of your post, those last two paragraphs are NOT about you in particular. If they were, I would have mentioned you and singled you out in my rant because i'm not a gutless worm.

I'm not athiest, fool. I'm agnostic. Which is probably the most rational stance you can take on the exist of God given the info we have on the subject.

And your implication that gays are useless because they can't reproduce is hysterical.

LISTEN TO WHAT I AM SAYING..... PLEASE....

A CHRISTIAN IS SOMEONE WHO BELIEVES IN JESUS CHRIST AS LORD AND SAVIOR... YOU CAN NEVER READ A BIBLE IN YOUR ENTIRE LIFE, AND STILL BE A CHRISTIAN!!!!!

Kworb said SPECIFICALLY that MOST of those 2.3 billion people may not believe that, and I quote:

that is completely WRONG!!!! If you define yourself as a christian, then you adknowledge the fact that Jesus did go through what he went through. Kworbs post is FLAT OUT WRONG! And you can ask any religious scholar, and they will tell you the EXACT same thing! If you disbelieve what the bible says about Jesus, then you ARE NOT A CHRISTIAN!

Therefore, when I say that what Madonna is doing may offend billions of people, i am telling the truth! The cross IS held sacred by BILLIONS of people, and Kworbs answer to that was... "well, the crucifixtion of Christ isn't held dear to billions of christians as MOST of them don't even believe that Jesus underwent everything as written in the bible"... that is WRONG!!!!

And I only pointed that out to you because you pointed his post out as being accurate when it isn't.

Okay, okay, don't have a hernia. You have a fair point and I accept it. But I did notice that you didn't mention how I said that many people who call themselves "Christians" don't go to church and don't read The Bible. It's absolutely 100% true because I actually know people who are like that.

Still, that part of the post is nothing compared to the rest. I like to call it my opus here on ATRL.

and I agree whole heartedly with the fact that there are plenty of people who call themselves christians, and don't go to church, read their bibles etc. etc. etc. But I mean, that doesn't mean that they are fake.

There is no prerequisite for being a Christian. You don't have to memorize the bible to be a christian. You don't have to attend church 4 times a week to be a christian. What matters is whats in your heart. The bible says...

"Whosoever will, let him come"

that doesn't mean you have to have a ph.d in theology to be a christian. You just have to have a basic assurance in the christ that you serve.

Marquis completely misunderstood Kworb.

I said "identify themselves as Christians", not "are Christians". You assume that each of those 2.3 billion people who were considered Christian in that particular research project have the same beliefs as you do, while they in fact may have just been indoctrinated to become a Christian, or have Christian roots and hang on to their Christianity very loosely. Not all of them would be so offended by the image of a woman crucified on stage as you are.

I'm still waiting for an answer to this.

I tried to stay out of this but I can't help it. Marquis, i applaud you for stickin up for Christians but you are really makin an ass of yourself. I'ma christian and I believe there's a reason for everything. Pandora made lots of sense. She had no stance on the matter and she just basically sayin that there are other ways of seeing this. You really need to calm down cuz its not that serious. I can understand why there are atheists or agnostic cuz the bible does say alot of questionable stuff. But don't put people down for not believin in what you keep as sacred. Its time that somebody locked this thread cuz its gone way too far.

And that fatherless kid joke can be said about all races so stop tryin to put black people down. U can attack Marquis w/o goin skin deep.

If I was filling out a questionnaire for like college or something I would put Catholic, because I belong to the Catholic Church and I was baptized and confirmed.

However, I don't really know if Jesus was divine or not. A lot of things I've heard historically have led me to believe maybe he wasn't. And I DEFINITELY do not accept the Bible, because the Catholic church even acknowledges that it's not direct truth, but rather a collection of stories with thematic messages.

So people like me (and trust me I'm not the only one) throw off the statistics so that it looks like the world has more true "by definition" Christians than their really are. This is a case where you can't just use the definition, because some people will identify as Christian despite not actually being such.

Very true Nick. I too am Catholic, but that doesn't mean I have the same beliefs/opinions of all other Catholics. You, however, are an ideal example of this, as it is clear that the Catholic Church doesn't advocate homosexuals, but that isn't something that I necessarily believe in either, although I'm Catholic.

This thread has been going on for like 3 days now... i'm done. I'm not changing any of you guys' minds, and you sure as hell ain't changing mine. So with that said...

PEACE

And in reference to KD's post. All I have to say was that I was NOT defending Kanye. I even said, just like in this thread, that he was doing it only for attention

Kanye West: I Should be in the Bible

The fact that I said the cover was cool, doesn't mean I agree with what he was doing. That just mean it was a cool cover

Even though Madonna's antics are somewhat melodramatic, it works doesn't it?
She still makes headlines, she still makes people such as ourselves talk about how she is "so crazy".

The bitch knows how to cause a stir. And she does it very well.