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Music News: LA Times contributor regrets not giving more praise to BTW
Member Since: 11/10/2009
Posts: 19,215
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LA Times contributor regrets not giving more praise to BTW
Stolen from Hustle. from the BTW thread. Thanks boo. 
Quote:
I’m already regretting not ranking her Born This Way—the political rock album of the year, even more so because it was disco and all about sex—in an honored spot on my year-end list. I momentarily tired of its bombast. This exchange is confirming my belief in the importance of Gaga’s statement-making: not only its practical effect—she championed a cause, respect for gays in the military, that actually reached its goal—but the exemplary power of her mix of mainstream sound and radical intent.
Born This Way is a throwback, not only to Madonna’s prime (why deny this? It’s a fantastic legacy and deserves to be extended!) but to the “statement rock” of blockbuster artists like Springsteen and U2. The conviction that animates it—that music can change an artist’s audience, if not the world—is one well worth reviving. The title track connects the communal ecstasy of the dance floor to the crowd-surfing uplift of arena rock, allowing outsiders (queers, bullied teens) to imagine themselves in a cockiness-rocking power position. Other tracks dealt with the burden of religious shame (“Bloody Mary”), encouraged pride in single womanhood (“Marry the Night”) and cursed the contradictions of so-called post-feminism (“Scheisse”). Then there was “Yoü and I,” a piano-banging power ballad that flipped one of rock’s most enduring gender scripts, that of the male adventurer and his little lady back home. This time, Gaga’s in control, and the hapless on-and-offer Luc Carl is the tiny dancer in her hand.
Though Born This Way did sell, by the end of 2011 it seemed that Gaga's leather-glove grip on our consciousness had slipped a bit. The other day, my husband Eric wondered on Facebook whether Gaga’s overt support of gay rights had cost her radio play in certain conservative markets. We couldn’t quantify that, but it seems possible. I also think her choice to inhabit a rock stance might have hurt her. I’d love to hear you all weigh in on how rock—plain, old, earnest, horny, idealistic rock—became so uncool. (Resisting the sudden urge to delve into the mythos of “Moves Like Jagger.”)
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Thoughts?
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Member Since: 10/3/2010
Posts: 50,276
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I love the use of the avi.
But this article. 
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Member Since: 11/10/2009
Posts: 19,215
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Quote:
Originally posted by TheGeoKing
I love the use of the avi.
But this article. |
I do too. 
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Member Since: 12/24/2010
Posts: 1,980
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A lot of decent points 
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Member Since: 12/9/2007
Posts: 9,007
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I think people have been way to harsh on Born This Way. It doesn't have the pop hits that TF/TFM did, but it is a true artistic achievement. And the fact that she's pushing boundaries with the release proves to me she's headed in the right direction, musically. As a pop star, I'm wary that she's going to become too much of a preacher and take the female role of Bono (we all know how poorly that's impacted his image).
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Member Since: 7/22/2010
Posts: 16,134
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Quote:
Originally posted by BTrisc
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Member Since: 11/10/2009
Posts: 19,215
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Quote:
Originally posted by Twai
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Oh no, not her. 
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Member Since: 4/7/2009
Posts: 34,961
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People have been too hard on BTW to begin with.
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Banned
Member Since: 11/24/2009
Posts: 61,404
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Quote:
Originally posted by BTrisc
Thoughts?
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I hate you 
The key word of that well-written piece is the last one: UNCOOL.
As a huge popstar you cannot risk becoming uncool. That's why Rihanna doesn't merely smoke. No, that's not nearly cool enough. She inhales the smoke from another man's mouth (smoke and sex!). She exhales like such a pro that she's way past smoke rings - she writes her own lyrics in smoke! And I haven't even started on the drugs.
This might not sound PC but the reality is that the masses don't think gays are cool. That's why "you're so gay" is synonymous with "you're so lame." Just as Mrs Perry, who found a particular straight guy so lame, so uncool, that to her it was like he was gay.
Just a couple examples that illustrate how coolness - or in Gaga's case recently, lack of it - can destroy a popstar. That's why I said the only way Lady Gaga can salvage her mainstream career is to become cool again: http://atrl.net/forums/showthread.ph...&page=458#9146
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Member Since: 8/17/2011
Posts: 8,032
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BTW is kind of a grower. I think that so many people expect pop albums to give you instantaneous satisfaction and love. So when they actually hear a pop album that you have to actually take the time to listen to, they automatically disregard it as trash.
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Member Since: 11/14/2011
Posts: 9,158
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I think she's 'underperforming' this era in terms of hits because lot of people is getting tired of the costumes, the overdone videos and the fact she's trying too hard with her image and doesn't seem genuine.
Shock for the sake of shock?
Just an opinion.
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Member Since: 11/10/2009
Posts: 19,215
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Quote:
Originally posted by Nicole
I hate you
The key word of that well-written piece is the last one: UNCOOL.
As a huge popstar you cannot risk becoming uncool. That's why Rihanna doesn't merely smoke. No, that's not nearly cool enough. She inhales the smoke from another man's mouth (smoke and sex!). She exhales like such a pro that she's way past smoke bubbles - she writes her own lyrics in smoke! And I haven't even started on the drugs.
This might not sound PC but the reality is that the masses don't think gays are cool. That's why "you're so gay" is synonymous with "you're so lame." Just as Mrs Perry, who found a particular straight guy so lame, so uncool, that to her it was like he was gay.
Just a couple examples that illustrate how coolness - or in Gaga's case recently, lack of it - can destroy a popstar. That's why I said the only way Lady Gaga can salvage her mainstream career is to become cool again: http://atrl.net/forums/showthread.ph...&page=458#9146
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IMO, Gaga was in the peak of her coolness when "Poker Face" came out. "Bad Romance" was when it all started falling apart.
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Banned
Member Since: 11/24/2009
Posts: 61,404
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Quote:
Originally posted by BTrisc
IMO, Gaga was in the peak of her coolness when "Poker Face" came out. "Bad Romance" was when it all started falling apart.
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Right, there's nothing "cooler" than a tanned, mysterious, glamorous woman playing strip poker in a mansion...and then playing with all the hot, muscled men around her as if they too were just a card game to her. The fact that she's not that pretty? Even better. Makes the average Joe and Jane think they too can be this fierce even if they don't look like models.
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Member Since: 12/9/2007
Posts: 9,007
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Quote:
Originally posted by Nicole
I hate you
The key word of that well-written piece is the last one: UNCOOL.
As a huge popstar you cannot risk becoming uncool. That's why Rihanna doesn't merely smoke. No, that's not nearly cool enough. She inhales the smoke from another man's mouth (smoke and sex!). She exhales like such a pro that she's way past smoke bubbles - she writes her own lyrics in smoke! And I haven't even started on the drugs.
This might not sound PC but the reality is that the masses don't think gays are cool. That's why "you're so gay" is synonymous with "you're so lame." Just as Mrs Perry, who found a particular straight guy so lame, so uncool, that to her it was like he was gay.
Just a couple examples that illustrate how coolness - or in Gaga's case recently, lack of it - can destroy a popstar. That's why I said the only way Lady Gaga can salvage her mainstream career is to become cool again: http://atrl.net/forums/showthread.ph...&page=458#9146
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I think it all goes back to what she's trying to achieve. Her intentions for The Fame and Born This Way were totally different. And she's trying her damnest to make being gay cool, or at least NOT uncool.
The moment she started believing her own hype people started getting tired of her. The constant Madonna comparisons and religious imagery only hurt her too. Looking back, I believe "Alejandro" was the beginning of the end of her peak. That had both Madonna comparisons and religious imagery people found offensive. She outdid herself with "Born This Way" and "Judas", probably the worst first two singles she could have released now that I think about it.
But that's not anything she can't fix with her next release; I just don't think she's ever going back to The Fame days.
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Member Since: 3/30/2011
Posts: 5,259
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Quote:
Originally posted by GRADUAT10N
I think it all goes back to what she's trying to achieve. Her intentions for The Fame and Born This Way were totally different. And she's trying her damnest to make being gay cool, or at least NOT uncool.
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If that was her intention, she should have kept her chic, uber-cool image from TF and still promoted gay rights. Making yourself grotesque and uncool and then associating yourself with gays as much as possible just does more harm than good.
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Member Since: 7/21/2007
Posts: 17,522
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i totally agree with the rock styling comments 
her image during the Judas/TEOG era was terrible and this old fashioned rock image does not cut it
her image lately has been more sexy. Fame era stuff and it seems to be working well
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Member Since: 7/15/2010
Posts: 3,610
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To echo Nicole's statements: she needs to NOT pretend to be a 14 year old emo gay boy ("I won't give up on my life, I'm a soldier to my own emptiness" ; "Whenever I dress school my parents put up a fight" ; "I was born this way" ; "I'm a bad kid, but I will survive" ; "I can be the queen you need me to be!")
If the album had only consisted of THESE tracks, PLUS TWO COOL, ELECTRO-POP SONGS THAT SOUNDED CURRENT, then it would have been better received imo:
Marry the Night
Government Hooker
Americano
Scheisse
Bloody Mary
Road to Love
Heavy Metal Lover
Electric Chapel
Edge of Glory
You + I
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Member Since: 12/9/2007
Posts: 9,007
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Quote:
Originally posted by Thisisit
If that was her intention, she should have kept her chic, uber-cool image from TF and still promoted gay rights. Making yourself grotesque and uncool and then associating yourself with gays as much as possible just does more harm than good.
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I agree with this, but there also is something to be said about her "letting her freak flag fly" and still having a #1 album and #1 single (with the gayest song of 2011, nonetheless). She herself isn't a lesbian, but the whole point of the era was to say "despite my flaws, I am who I am." The fact that she had those horns on the BTW-single cover seems like an obvious metaphor to that fact.
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Member Since: 4/12/2007
Posts: 5,851
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Quote:
Originally posted by BTrisc
IMO, Gaga was in the peak of her coolness when "Poker Face" came out. [B]"Bad Romance" was when it all started falling apart.
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 Not true AT ALL! That's her most well-renowned video to date. "Alejandro" is where she started losing it, really, even though the "Telephone" video was equally lame (selling sex, nudity, smoking, etc. in the video still kept her cool in the eyes of the mainstream though).
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Member Since: 5/27/2010
Posts: 37,025
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Quote:
Originally posted by bobbymfw
Not true AT ALL! That's her most well-renowned video to date. "Alejandro" is where she started losing it, really, even though the "Telephone" video was equally lame (selling sex, nudity, smoking, etc. in the video still kept her cool in the eyes of the mainstream though). |
Yes, though I really like it and think it's become rather underrated, the Alejandro video is when a lot of people turned. One of my friends even randomly texted me at the time -- "I am SO done with her videos."
I'd say the rate at which her video views have plummeted this era bears that general sentiment out.
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