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Discussion: U.S. Election 2016
Member Since: 8/19/2013
Posts: 28,773
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And who can forget her silence on Obamacare? It was hurting her numbers and she still wouldn't criticize it.
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Member Since: 8/16/2011
Posts: 19,718
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Quote:
Originally posted by Lord Blackout
Bernie could easily run against Obama. That's an advantage he had over Hillary.
Like, in the debates, Trump would criticize her for the loophole the Obama administration created in Iraq that led to the rise of ISIS when in fact she was against getting the troops out of Iraq but Obama wouldn't listen to her. She took the blame for anything and everything and she didn't challenge it.
She never once criticized the Obama administration while on the campaign trail. |
But unfortunately for Bernie, Obama is a skilled talker being a charismatic lawyer and what not.
I don't know why that never came through for Hillary. I think it's the standards she was held to as a female candidate, but I needed that smart mouth to do some work on her opponents.  She played so defensively and it was tragic to watch. ESPECIALLY against Trump where the openings were gaping. Dear god.
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Member Since: 8/19/2013
Posts: 28,773
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Quote:
Originally posted by Sunshine.
But unfortunately for Bernie, Obama is a skilled talker being a charismatic lawyer and what not.
I don't know why that never came through for Hillary. I think it's the standards she was held to as a female candidate, but I needed that smart mouth to do some work on her opponents. She played so defensively and it was tragic to watch. ESPECIALLY against Trump where the openings were gaping. Dear god. |
Exactly. People wanted something to be angry at. A scapegoat. And she couldn't do that without stabbing Obama in the back. She did it in 2007-2008 and guess what? The white working class was her bread and butter back then. Obama even made his own deplorables gaffe back when referring to her base (The "bitter" quote)
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Member Since: 8/19/2013
Posts: 28,773
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The difference between 2016 and 2008 is that now the country is in the right direction per all objective metrics.
PS: Did you know that Ann Coulter endorsed her in 2008? 
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Member Since: 8/7/2015
Posts: 2,318
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Mess at that one remaining Hillary supporter defending Hillary´s innocence of her character and her ran during the primaries.
But yeah, God chose Trump to be the next president 
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Member Since: 8/16/2011
Posts: 19,718
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Quote:
Originally posted by Lord Blackout
Exactly. People wanted something to be angry at. A scapegoat. And she couldn't do that without stabbing Obama in the back. She did it in 2007-2008 and guess what? The white working class was her bread and butter back then. Obama even made his own deplorables gaffe back when referring to her base (The "bitter" quote)
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Honestly, they should have worked out a backroom deal that she could throw him under the bus a little. His presidency was far from perfect and she needed the breathing room to distance herself from his failings.
If she had run following Bills presidency where the economy was at a high, it would make sense to hold ground by defending the previous administration. But that wasn't the case here and I wish she had the latitude to pivot just a little more away from the direction Obama had taken and really shake off the "4 more years of Obama" baggage she seemed to carry around. (A comment that Trump also repeated as an offense).
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Member Since: 8/16/2011
Posts: 19,718
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That said, Hillary still had the Benghazi, Libya (  ), and email baggage. But the election was so close, and like you said earlier, a removal of just even one of the damning factors could have made the difference.
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Member Since: 8/19/2013
Posts: 28,773
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Quote:
Originally posted by Sunshine.
Honestly, they should have worked out a backroom deal that she could throw him under the bus a little. His presidency was far from perfect and she needed the breathing room to distance herself from his failings.
If she had run following Bills presidency where the economy was at a high, it would make sense to hold ground by defending the previous administration. But that wasn't the case here and I wish she had the latitude to pivot just a little more away from the direction Obama had taken and really shake off the "4 more years of Obama" baggage she seemed to carry around. (A comment that Trump also repeated as an offense).
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True. It would have been far better for us than this whole mess.
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Member Since: 8/19/2013
Posts: 28,773
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Although, did you know that Al Gore actually asked the Clintons to stay away from his campaign? Hillary only campaigned for him once. Biggest mistake he made.
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Member Since: 8/16/2011
Posts: 19,718
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mr. Grey
Mess at that one remaining Hillary supporter defending Hillary´s innocence of her character and her ran during the primaries.
But yeah, God chose Trump to be the next president |
The funny thing is, personally,
I doubt Hillary's motives and personal judgement, BUT I would trust the professionals she'd surround herself with (even moreso if she would have made Bernie her VP) to hold her accountable.
however,
I'm pretty convinced of Donald's motives being he doesn't like the direction America is going in and he's upheld democratic ideals in the past, so I'd like to see what he can do, BUT I don't trust the people he's surrounded himself with that I think will taint his perception. Including, but not especially, his homophobic VP who let HIV rates skyrocket in his state by cutting funding for HIV treatment (Who does that? You can hate the gays, but sick people still need help).
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Member Since: 8/7/2015
Posts: 2,318
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Quote:
Originally posted by Lord Blackout
Bernie could easily run against Obama. That's an advantage he had over Hillary.
Like, in the debates, Trump would criticize her for the loophole the Obama administration created in Iraq that led to the rise of ISIS when in fact she was against getting the troops out of Iraq but Obama wouldn't listen to her. She took the blame for anything and everything and she didn't challenge it.
She never once criticized the Obama administration while on the campaign trail. |
That´s one of the reason why Hillary lost.
She had no identity apart from "I´m woman etc etc etc..." no more than a Obama, minus being black and a man, 2.0 who will just continue Obama´s work.
Of course she wouldn´t criticized his administration since she will essentially continue what he had left.
Atleast Obama was a fresh face in politics during the 2008 election and during his presidency he was arguably different from other presidents that he preceded.
She was trying to be a populous (like Obama-type) but fell flat by around a large margin. It was not good for her. She had no identity apart from being a having a woman´s card.
At least Emeperor Trump was a mess (still love him though) and had identity as being an outside force of the right.
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Member Since: 8/7/2015
Posts: 2,318
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Quote:
Originally posted by Sunshine.
The funny thing is, personally,
I doubt Hillary's motives and personal judgement, BUT I would trust the professionals she'd surround herself with (even moreso if she would have made Bernie her VP) to hold her accountable.
however,
I'm pretty convinced of Donald's motives being he doesn't like the direction America is going in and he's upheld democratic ideals in the past, so I'd like to see what he can do, BUT I don't trust the people he's surrounded himself with that I think will taint his perception. Including, but not especially, his homophobic VP who let HIV rates skyrocket in his state by cutting funding for HIV treatment (Who does that? You can hate the gays, but sick people still need help).
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I hope he listens more to his children (whom are more leaning in the centre side of the spectrum in terms of politics) in terms of social policies rather than those white people .
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Member Since: 8/19/2013
Posts: 28,773
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mr. Grey
That´s one of the reason why Hillary lost.
She had no identity apart from "I´m woman etc etc etc..." no more than a Obama, minus being black and a man, 2.0 who will just continue Obama´s work.
Of course she wouldn´t criticized his administration since she will essentially continue what he had left.
Atleast Obama was a fresh face in politics during the 2008 election and during his presidency he was arguably different from other presidents that he preceded.
She was trying to be a populous (like Obama-type) but fell flat by around a large margin. It was not good for her. She had no identity apart from being a having a woman´s card.
At least Emeperor Trump was a mess (still love him though) and had identity as being an outside force of the right.
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I love how you talk about her being a woman as if that's been an advantage in presidential elections.
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Member Since: 8/19/2013
Posts: 28,773
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Member Since: 7/21/2012
Posts: 28,099
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Quote:
Originally posted by Lord Blackout
Although, did you know that Al Gore actually asked the Clintons to stay away from his campaign? Hillary only campaigned for him once. Biggest mistake he made.
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Because of Monica. Ain't nobody cared about her.  Or that impeachment.
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Member Since: 8/19/2013
Posts: 28,773
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Quote:
Originally posted by King Maxx
Because of Monica. Ain't nobody cared about her. Or that impeachment. |
I know. Such a stupid decision and he ended up losing many Clinton counties.
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Member Since: 3/15/2013
Posts: 25,228
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Quote:
Originally posted by Lord Blackout
Bernie's character attacks were always a huge mistake. It was a primary, not a general election. You're not supposed to be dividing people.
Of course, you can argue Trump did the same thing in the primary but difference is that guy ended up as a nominee. I doubt his supporters would have gotten behind Ted Cruz.
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Bernie went easy on her.  He basically kept her emails out of the news for months because of the first debate. He only went negative when she went negative. He didn't even run any negative ads against her (and she didn't run any against him). People just didn't like Hillary, hence why he began gathering so many crowds so early on despite little to no media coverage.
Quote:
Originally posted by Lord Blackout
Bernie is not far left. The far left loved him and were his base but they also turned a blind eye to his centrist stances on many issues.
If you want far left, look at that loonie Jill and how she used to go in on Bernie during the primary for his "hawk record". She even said at some point that electing him would be a continuation of the world wars. Now that's a far left loonie tunes.
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I consider myself far left but there any many areas where I'm a centrist too. I originally supported Hillary (and then eventually came home to her) despite knowing I had many disagreements with her.
Bernie's problems with our foreign policy was in regards to terrible decisions like the Iraq War, etc.
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Member Since: 8/18/2013
Posts: 14,905
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Quote:
Originally posted by Lord Blackout
PS: Did you know that Ann Coulter endorsed her in 2008? |
probably because she said she would definitely bomb Iran
Hillary really is a Republican in disguise 
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Member Since: 7/21/2012
Posts: 28,099
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mike91
Bernie went easy on her. He basically kept her emails out of the news for months because of the first debate. He only went negative when she went negative. He didn't even run any negative ads against her (and she didn't run any against him). People just didn't like Hillary, hence why he began gathering so many crowds so early on despite little to no media coverage.
I consider myself far left but there any many areas where I'm a centrist too. I originally supported Hillary (and then eventually came home to her) despite knowing I had many disagreements with her.
Bernie's problems with our foreign policy was in regards to terrible decisions like the Iraq War, etc. |
She went after him on issues, and snuck in little jabs about being a real Democrat. He not only went after her but the entire party. He was much more divisive than her.
The election could've stayed about emails. She might have still lost, but at least it was because of that. He and his team had to bring in speeches, donations, "establishment', Clinton Foundation, etc. He was desperate.
Quote:
Originally posted by lightstheyblindme
probably because she said she would definitely bomb Iran
Hillary really is a Republican in disguise |
She's tough on foreign policy. I am too. But I consider myself liberal. Y'all little SJWs need to get with the program. We need a strong military and foreign policy. If we don't move more to the right on that issue, we could face issues in the future.
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Member Since: 8/19/2013
Posts: 28,773
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mike91
Bernie went easy on her. He basically kept her emails out of the news for months because of the first debate. He only went negative when she went negative. He didn't even run any negative ads against her (and she didn't run any against him). People just didn't like Hillary, hence why he began gathering so many crowds so early on despite little to no media coverage. |
"He kept her emails out of the news for months" No, he did not. The medias covered them nonetheless. That debate moment was just brownie points. He went after her donors (as if she was the first nominee with donors), brought up the super-predator comment mid debate out of nowhere when he actually voted for the Crime Bill and justified his vote with a lie. He kept hinting at her being a war hawk and bringing up Kissinger when his own record ain't much different from hers aside from the Iraq War. He basically made himself look pure and made her out to be the ***** of Babylon and that's not how you primary against someone. You don't do it at all costs.
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