I think a strong point of Majid's argument is that American Muslims aren't the issue. For a lot of people in the US who've personally interacted with Muslim people, it can feel uncomfortable to hear anyone paint Muslims with a broad brush. Because their personal encounters don't reveal those extreme characterizations of Muslims as terrorists or Islam as oppressive.
What people need to start doing I think is begin acknowledging the shades that exist within Islam. And focus more on applying those secularist liberal views of human rights that we value across the entire religion. Bringing the moderate Muslims into the fold of finding a solution to extremism can help achieve that goal.
The only issue is many Muslims know what's in the Quran and it's probably difficult for them to challenge fundamentalist interpretation of the text. Because there's an argument to be made that it's probably how the religion should be practiced. That the Quran is PRESCRIPTIVE. Whereas Christianity can often spin the Old Testament as a historical account. That it is DESCRIPTIVE. And instead, they live by the New Testament.
Exactly. We can't expect people that live basically in a theocracy to be atheists. We just need to spread certain western values like Freedom of Speech and Freedom of religion there and most importantly get rid of extremists that silence the majority that could very well be considered moderates.
Quote:
Originally posted by Sunshine.
Do you guys think it's too much to ask Muslims to ignore entire parts of their Holy Book like the majority of Christians ignore the Old Testament?
Like I said in my other post, before the enlightenment era, the catholic church was about as militant as modern day Muslims. East used to be far more ahead when it came to academia and research but ever since that era religious persecution of science and knowledge has dissapeared and people slowly but surely started to move more towards secular values, eventually surpassing the east. If western muslims can reconcile their religion with liberal values then so can the moderates in middle east. The problem is that theocracy is basically held up by force in the middle east. No progress can be achieved as long as the large moderate population of Muslims is paralyzed by fear of both, western colonization and islamic extremism, because Muslims themselves are victims of these terrorist attacks.
Interesting. I forgot to factor in the political aspect of it (i.e. Islam theocracy being enforced by state). I guess this won't happen in our lifetime short of a colossal human rights violation. Like a genocide in the Middle East where a restructuring of government can be the only solution. Or maybe even just a revolution, but by the moderate peoples who wish to live openly.
Cause the recent revolutions of Mubarack and Gaddafi has actually caused more extremism to take hold.
I just don't understand how exactly is one supposed to interpret this as non violent. People saying Islam is a religion of peace always throw around this word but how is calling for slaughter of certain people supposed to be interpreted in a peaceful way.
A lot of atheists saying things like "belivers are just all dumb" is obviously inaccurate but I think amny believers are purposely turning of their critical thinking skills when it comes to their religion.
The only thing I hate more is the "out of context" excuse. Please inform me in what context those quotes are ok
I can understand the context argument in regards to the Bible and the Old Testament. Exodus, for example, being cultural guidelines for the Jewish nation coming out of Egypt.
But I haven't read the Quaran to know if it is indeed descriptive of a history of a people's migration or more of a philosophical mandate.
I can understand the context argument in regards to the Bible and the Old Testament. Exodus, for example, being cultural guidelines for the Jewish nation coming out of Egypt.
But I haven't read the Quaran to know if it is indeed descriptive of a history of a people's migration or more of a philosophical mandate.
No context validates killing infants for me. That's the stuff from the bible I was talking about.
There is no real narrative in the quaran. It reads like just one random verse after another mostly about fire for non-believers
Quote:
Originally posted by AvrilLaQueen
this muslim woman was preaching a HOT TEA that got CNN so shook and burned with the hotness of that tea!
ignoring the fact she voted for Trump and that she still subscribes to religion which y'all know my opinion on that, she was really spilling that hot tea!
She went in liberals are doing themselves no favor when they shelter Islam for any criticism and I'm afraid we are moving further away from realising that.
No context validates killing infants for me. That's the stuff from the bible I was talking about.
There is no real narrative in the quaran. It reads like just one random verse after another mostly about fire for non-believers
ffff. That's not to say that bad things can be validated. I mean that the religion can be practiced today while ignoring those instructions and recognizing it as a piece in an historical accounting of those people and their way of life.
I'm not sure if Islam has that flexibility. I haven't read the Koran, so anyone correct me, but from what I heard, it seems more like a socio-political manifesto, like Mein Kampf by Hitler or Marxism by Stalin. It's more about telling people how to think and behave than about God the character.
Let's remind ourselves that Islam is considerably younger than Christianity, and it took something like 15-16 centuries for Christianity to not be directly the cause of a war.
ffff. That's not to say that bad things can be validated. I mean that the religion can be practiced today while ignoring those instructions and recognizing it as a piece in an historical accounting of those people and their way of life.
I'm not sure if Islam has that flexibility. I haven't read the Koran, so anyone correct me, but from what I heard, it seems more like a socio-political manifesto, like Mein Kampf by Hitler or Marxism by Stalin. It's more about telling people how to think and behave than about God the character.
I'm not educated as well on this but it's the feeling I get. A lot of people are muslims and that's it, they're not french, american, saudi, they're muslims. It's pretty disturbing ngl that's why a lot of "moderate" muslims who are not dangerous are still somewhat extremist imo.
Let's remind ourselves that Islam is considerably younger than Christianity, and it took something like 15-16 centuries for Christianity to not be directly the cause of a war.
No, one of the worst excuses. Christianity had no role model. There weren't tolerant countries with social justice and secular values they could look at, see working and imitate.
We live in the age of information. Unless you consider all muslims to be desert dwelling savages you should remind yourself that they can by their own choice read a dam book besides the Quran or look things up on the internet. There is no excuse for being a militant fundamentalist in 2016, especially when there have been religions even younger that didn't end up starting wars.
No, one of the worst excuses. Christianity had no role model. There weren't tolerant countries with social justice and secular values they could look at, see working and imitate.
We live in the age of information. Unless you consider all muslims to be desert dwelling savages you should remind yourself that they can by their own choice read a dam book besides the Quran or look things up on the internet. There is no excuse for being a militant fundamentalist in 2016, especially when there have been religions even younger that didn't end up starting wars.
No, one of the worst excuses. Christianity had no role model. There weren't tolerant countries with social justice and secular values they could look at, see working and imitate.
We live in the age of information. Unless you consider all muslims to be desert dwelling savages you should remind yourself that they can by their own choice read a dam book besides the Quran or look things up on the internet. There is no excuse for being a militant fundamentalist in 2016, especially when there have been religions even younger that didn't end up starting wars.
Well, some people in muslims countries have restricted Internet I think? Or are too afraid to speak their minds about it. I agree though that we can't give Islam the same time we gave religion for reform. The circumstances are just completely different.
What really is inexcusable is the fact that in the US 40-50% (depending on the poll) of people believe in creationism.
Well, alot of people in US are uneducated so it's not surprising. Didn't Texas pass a law that didn't allow schools to teach critical thinking skills or something?
I really can't keep up with the amount of anti-science bills passed in the south in the US.
Guess that's a problem that comes with federalistic education systems. We have similiar problems here in Germany although the topic isn't creationism. Luckily I never heard that in my biology class except for my teacher's bitchy "yeah that's not reality" response to the one religious kid in my class
oh gurl, don't get me on the dumb US people beliving in creationism. I thought how US was smart and progressive, then I realized that's just New York and California, the rest of the country are literally as dumb as those rednecks in their Hollywood movies
No, one of the worst excuses. Christianity had no role model. There weren't tolerant countries with social justice and secular values they could look at, see working and imitate.
We live in the age of information. Unless you consider all muslims to be desert dwelling savages you should remind yourself that they can by their own choice read a dam book besides the Quran or look things up on the internet. There is no excuse for being a militant fundamentalist in 2016, especially when there have been religions even younger that didn't end up starting wars.
Those are pretty good points you're making. Although the Western world contributions to the Middle East has been wars, so... But I still get your point.
That gender list thread Serious question, if I'm a guy and I don't like football, am I gender fluid or something ?
Those are pretty good points you're making. Although the Western world contributions to the Middle East has been wars, so... But I still get your point.
That gender list thread Serious question, if I'm a guy and I don't like football, am I gender fluid or something ?
Oh please don't get me started, especially since you know who will show up to expose our Nazi tendencies.
Serious question, if I'm a guy and I don't like football, am I gender fluid or something ?