I'm not sure why AvrilLaQueen is failing to understand this.

It's not using it in a negative way. It's a pride symbol. It's empowering.

There is a religious dogma and a law in effect today that commands and demands wear a hijab. Do you not see how that is different from gays trying to reclaim the pink triangle 30 years after the nazi movement was dis empowered, wiped and almost completely destroyed ?

"Free speech" - Free Speech =/= Ethical Speech. You have the legal right to go around calling people fat ugly ****s - but should you? You can, but should you? Most people understand respect and ethics. "Live and let live," etc.

"Voicing my opinion" - who said they want your opinion?

"Engaging in a discussion" - who said they want to engage in a discussion with you? Why are you coming up to random strangers to harass them. You didn't say you're at a debate. You think it's okay to just go up to random Muslim women and lecture them.

"Hoping to raise awareness" - how could you be more aware on the realities of Muslim woman more than a Muslim woman?

"Offer perspective" - how could you offer perspective about how the hijab hurts Muslim women when you are not a Muslim woman, let alone try to offer the perspective you don't have on this TO a Muslim woman?

1. You don't
2. What's your point ?
3. What's your point ? Coming up to someone is not harassing. It is ok to come up to anybody to strike up a conversation and if they decline, you just move on
4. Would you critic a banana if you were not a banana ? I'm french and I'm pretty sure a non french person can have way more knowledge about french history than I do
5. Refer to .4

If they wear a Hijab and try to make a statement of empowerment with it then they are inviting discourse. Nobody will go to any random muslim woman and start talking about these things but when one tries to become an "activist" by making a hijab into a symbol of empowerment then they are trying to start a public movement and invite commentary from the public.

the difference between sex slaves in Africa and prostitutes in the Western world is that they don't have any ideologies behind it. Choosing to wear a headscarf means you're supporting a religion that says some of the following things:

Quran (2:191-193) - "And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out. And Al-Fitnah [disbelief or unrest] is worse than killing... but if they desist, then no! Allah is forgiving and merciful. And fight them until there is no more Fitnah [disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allah] and worship is for Allah alone. But if they cease, let there be no transgression except against Az-Zalimun(the polytheists, and wrong-doers, etc.)"

Quran (3:56) - "As to those who reject faith, I will punish them with terrible agony in this world and in the Hereafter, nor will they have anyone to help."


Quran (3:151) - "Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers, for that they joined companions with Allah, for which He had sent no authority"


Quran (4:95) - "Not equal are those of the believers who sit (at home), except those who are disabled (by injury or are blind or lame, etc.), and those who strive hard and fight in the Cause of Allah with their wealth and their lives. Allah has preferred in grades those who strive hard and fight with their wealth and their lives above those who sit (at home).Unto each, Allah has promised good (Paradise), but Allah has preferred those who strive hard and fight, above those who sit (at home) by a huge reward "


Quran (5:33) - "The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement"

I mean, these are just a few examples of the teaching these followers who just to identify as such are saying about non-belivers, which you are included. Do you want me to also post passages about gay people and women, or is it my point clear on why Islam is a dangerous religion to follow?

The pink triangle is used as a symbol to end mistreatment of gays and to fight AIDS, another negative point.

Lemme put it in this way: women showing headscarf to tell people to stop mistreating them because they are women like they did in the past to other women and to fight a dangerous desease that mostly affects women. They're using that symbol to show what negative things society has done to them because they're women. I hope you can understand my point, my English is kinda meh when I am trying to point out to this issue.

Um.... they literally aren't.

And I hope you wouldn't be some reddit mouth-breathing, neckbeard freak and go harass any hijab-wearing woman you saw on the street. Leave people alone, damn.

So Muslim women who take a liberal reform view on religion are just lying according to you?

Again, I ask - do you want to end the tradition of a nun's habit. You DO realize the habit represents and supports all the horrors in the Old Testament, right? You SUPPORT that?

Are you a muslim woman Communion wearing an hijab ? Cause if you're not according to own logic you shouldn't even be discussing all of this.

And you said you're agnostic so.

How can you say it's a symbol of empowerment or not ?

I'm confused.

Again with putting words in my mouth. I literally said in the same ****ing post that nobody would do such a thing. Trying to start a public movement will invite commentary from the public. How do you not get this

That's another thing.

Even when the laws are gone, there's still the issue of societies that have been seeped into having them and naturally people who do not conform become pariahs. Societal oppression is harmful as well and that can only change by how people change.

But it's slippery about a headscarf because some women do choose to wear it for themselves, and some don't. The widespread thought to become for it to be choosable, how to make it so... there is no definitive answer.

You obviously can't change everyone, but taking away power to force in this example a headscarf on a woman seems like the ideal step. Then protecting those who will face backlash because of it.

@Bolded, indeed, although I think one of the biggest signs of reclamation comes in the form of many parts of a community displaying positive use, and in this case maybe there is that shift. Besides, even reclamation doesn't mean the symbol will last either.

yeah, picking and choosing what is true or false

that would be like someone identifying as a nazi and saying "I am a nazi, but I don't believe we should kill gays and jews, but the rest is perfectly fine, I still subscribe to such ideology "

not to mention how moderate and even liberal religious people once they get low in life, they start to look up to their religion as a safe space and become more fundamentalist than they did before since suddenly they became "woke" and "saw the light" and start to be devoted followers on such subscribed religion.

EDIT: oh and no, I don't support nun's ideology either.

Well they are talking about Muslim women who outright say they do feel empowerment or no force to wear their hijab/headscarf.

They are muslim women claiming both

How can Communion side with muslim women saying it's empowerment when Communion is not a muslim woman ?

Do you subscribe to the logic how can you have an opinion on hijab if you don't wear hijab as well ?

What is with him and using nuns as an analogy. Does he not get that this is an atheist thread. The only thing in christianity that I support is the literature in the bible and it stops there.

That's not a negative point still as I see it.

It's turning a symbol that was used to be abusive to evoke a positive change and reaction. It's literally not a commentary about the image itself but about the cause and in a way giving the image one of change not oppression.

And don't worry your English is fine.