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News: Students told term ‘be a man’ represents toxic masculinity
Member Since: 8/7/2015
Posts: 4,169
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Quote:
Originally posted by BlueTimberwolf
No you're wrong. It means the former.
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Anectdotally I've heard it used in both contexts.
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Member Since: 4/9/2012
Posts: 4,149
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kim Kardashian
No it really doesn't though.
'Grow up' and 'Don't be a baby' mean "Accept responsibility for what you've done" or "Stop whining and pluck up the courage to do this task".
Be a man is something that is literally only said to boys when they are doing something society considers feminine.
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Exactly. They are told that when they express weakness. And weakness is only allowed to women.
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Member Since: 8/19/2013
Posts: 34,855
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They're right. Phrases like "be a man," "man up," "grow a pair" are all v chauvinistic and rooted in gross stereotypes of the sexes
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Member Since: 8/17/2013
Posts: 19,066
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kim Kardashian
No it really doesn't though.
'Grow up' and 'Don't be a baby' mean "Accept responsibility for what you've done" or "Stop whining and pluck up the courage to do this task".
Be a man is something that is literally only said to boys when they are doing something society considers feminine.
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Kinda, but not really. Whining and being afraid are considered feminine traits. It goes back to damsel in distress, protector vs. nurturer. So it is kind of sexist, but it's not used for someone who listens to Lady Gaga, etc.
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Member Since: 8/19/2013
Posts: 58,053
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Quote:
Originally posted by Reinvention
Gosh ya'll are so pressed by the facts.
Toxic masculinity is the reason ya'll gays got ruthlessly bullied at school and why the straights reject you as friends and why you'll never feel comfortable holding your same-sex partner's hands walking around town.
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But that never happened to me. I guess I'm not a walking stereotype.
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ATRL Contributor
Member Since: 8/19/2013
Posts: 15,224
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I literally can't with y'all
One minute you're all 'BUT MEN ARE OPPRESSED TOO!!!!' 'FEMINAZI SCUM!11!!' 'SJW!!!!' but when someone brings up toxic masculinity you say it doesn't exist and moan about feminists and SJWs
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Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 15,128
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kim Kardashian
That's not what 'be a man' means though.
It doesn't mean 'grow up' it means 'you're acting feminine - stop'.
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I've heard it used in both senses. Sometimes, I'll say "be a man about it" when I'm scolding someone who I feel is acting like a child.
I know a lot of people will use it to fem-shame though, but honestly, **** what those people think.
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ATRL Contributor
Member Since: 8/19/2013
Posts: 15,224
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Quote:
Originally posted by BlueTimberwolf
Kinda, but not really. Whining and being afraid are considered feminine traits. It goes back to damsel in distress, protector vs. nurturer. So it is kind of sexist, but it's not used for someone who listens to Lady Gaga, etc.
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Yeah I didn't say that, for that it's usually something like '***' (again this is related to toxic masculinity as well as homophobia).
It's not used for every time a guy acts feminine, just for certain ways (like crying and being afraid like you said).
For anyone who doesn't believe it is predominantly used in a sexist way, try and remember the last time someone said 'Be a woman' (I can like literally guarantee you that you've never heard that expression used or at least very rarely).
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Member Since: 8/19/2013
Posts: 34,855
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kim Kardashian
No it really doesn't though.
'Grow up' and 'Don't be a baby' mean "Accept responsibility for what you've done" or "Stop whining and pluck up the courage to do this task".
Be a man is something that is literally only said to boys when they are doing something society considers feminine.
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! No one ever says "be a woman". Occasionally you'll hear "woman up" used in jest as a sort of counter to the sexist original phrase, but no one would say that either had the original form of the phrase not existed.
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Member Since: 1/4/2014
Posts: 22,877
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Quote:
Originally posted by Lucas32
Do you have any evidence for this one sided claim? To simply blame such a complex problem on "toxic masculinity" and be done with it? Does religion, huge insecurities among teenagers, desire to fit in and disdain for everything "different" not play a role? Aren't the values you are raised with such as acceptance outside of any gender related parenting not important? Are there not girls and women who hate gay people?
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Gurl religion is a whole 'other ball game - but we live in a patriarchy, " a system of society or government in which men hold the power and women are largely excluded from it." We're not debating that, it's a fact, the majority of world leaders, CEOs and city Mayors are male. Therefore the dominant attitudes of males are forced upon the entire society, so therefore when the archetypal "masculine male" is asserted as the dominant member of human society, all else falls and suffers in order to support and uphold it.
Therefore - you can be raised by the most feminist, fun-loving, hippy parents in the world but unless you're shut off from society and raised in isolation you will encounter people, like Trump supporters for example, who honestly think that a man sexually assaulting a woman is just "boys being boys" and something that men can't help. When really, this myth of what a boy exists and was formed solely to allow "masculine males" to do whatever they want, and as they see fit, to whomever they want.
If the high school alpha male is picking on the gay guy, you know damn well the majority of straight girls and guys will side with the alpha male so to garner their acceptance and deflect any criticism that might be directed towards them had it not been for the gay guy.
This is why toxic masculinity (a made-up term, but adequately describes the whole situation) is bad for everybody.
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Member Since: 11/10/2011
Posts: 14,820
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kim Kardashian
No it really doesn't though.
'Grow up' and 'Don't be a baby' mean "Accept responsibility for what you've done" or "Stop whining and pluck up the courage to do this task".
Be a man is something that is literally only said to boys when they are doing something society considers feminine.
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SJWs changing the definition of a word to fit an agenda, yet again!
You probably also think a man kissing a woman when she doesn't want to be kissed is rape, don't you? Well guess what, it's not for 99% of people, feminists just changed the definition of the word "rape", so that they can claim people get raped all the time and make a career out of their hobby or complaining and protesting.
You probably also think a white baby is automatically racist because they're white, don't you? Well guess what, it's not for 99% of people, it's just that some people changed the definition of the word "racist" so that they can claim that racism is everywhere all the time, and that there will always be 10s of millions of racist people in the US no matter what (when in reality the number of true racists is much less than that). Convenient, huh?
Just FYI, the definition of "rape" that 99% of people all over the world use is when a man forcibly overpowers (or drugs) a woman and has sex with her against her will. Kissing a girl who doesn't want to be kissed is rude, but it's not rape.
Just FYI, the definition of "racist" that 99% of people all over the world use is when someone discriminates against other humans based solely on their race.
Open your eyes, people have been deceiving you. Seriously.
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Member Since: 5/27/2016
Posts: 3,042
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'be a man' is a stupid expression, but so is 'toxic masculinity'
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Member Since: 1/4/2014
Posts: 8,187
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Quote:
Originally posted by Reinvention
Your need to distance yourself and separate yourself from other gays to assert your own masculinity is why it is a toxic notion.
That's the reality of toxic masculinity - not always violence and hate, but little, irksome things to ostracise and single you out as different, therefore making you the weak one and the other the strong "masculine" type.
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i was not distancing myself from all gays, i was listing reasons as to why i dont view it as being toxic. And how i was asserting my masculinity by just listen reasons why i see things differently???
me saying i was different than you gays was in relation to your comment about bullying and being afraid to hold hands etc
like i said im allowed to have an opinion
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Member Since: 1/4/2014
Posts: 22,877
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Quote:
Originally posted by VOSS
'be a man' is a stupid expression, but so is 'toxic masculinity'
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It's not really - it accurately sums it up. I would be interested to know what you think is wrong with the phrase "toxic masculinity"? It does quite adequately signify what it means.
Quote:
Toxic masculinity is one of the ways in which Patriarchy is harmful to men. It refers to the socially-constructed attitudes that describe the masculine gender role as violent, unemotional, sexually aggressive, and so forth.
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Member Since: 8/17/2013
Posts: 19,066
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kim Kardashian
Yeah I didn't say that, for that it's usually something like '***' (again this is related to toxic masculinity as well as homophobia).
It's not used for every time a guy acts feminine, just for certain ways (like crying and being afraid like you said).
For anyone who doesn't believe it is predominantly used in a sexist way, try and remember the last time someone said 'Be a woman' (I can like literally guarantee you that you've never heard that expression used or at least very rarely).
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So you just proved our point. It's not used for doing girlish things, it's really only used for showing weakness. It''s currently not used a sexist context.
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Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 15,128
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Quote:
Originally posted by Sazare
! No one ever says "be a woman". Occasionally you'll hear "woman up" used in jest as a sort of counter to the sexist original phrase, but no one would say that either had the original form of the phrase not existed.
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I guess for me, the answer isn't to banish the term "be a man", but rather normalize the term "be a woman". But then again, I'm operating from the idea that it's a statement saying "don't be a little boy/little girl" rather than "Don't be masc/fem".
I'm not denying toxic masculinity exists at all. Phrases like "stop being a pu**y" (of course, "stop being a d**k kinda balances that out) or "you throw like a girl/bitch" are super misogynistic.
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Member Since: 3/15/2013
Posts: 32,106
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Quote:
Originally posted by Lucas32
Do you have any evidence for this one sided claim? To simply blame such a complex problem on "toxic masculinity" and be done with it? Does religion, huge insecurities among teenagers, desire to fit in and disdain for everything "different" not play a role? Aren't the values you are raised with such as acceptance outside of any gender related parenting not important? Are there not girls and women who hate gay people?
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Well, these kind of women are the kind that are raised by the patriarchy, who tells them what a man should be like in order to keep society stable. And religion does play a part in that as well, by undermining women (the Original Sin in the Bible) and putting males up in a pedestal.
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ATRL Contributor
Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 22,126
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woo! kim kardashian, Reinvention + Lorelei are on a roll
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Member Since: 8/7/2015
Posts: 4,169
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Quote:
Originally posted by Tsuko
SJWs changing the definition of a word to fit an agenda, yet again!
You probably also think a man kissing a woman when she doesn't want to be kissed is rape, don't you? Well guess what, it's not for 99% of people, feminists just changed the definition of the word "rape", so that they can claim people get raped all the time and make a career out of their hobby or complaining and protesting.
You probably also think a white baby is automatically racist because they're white, don't you? Well guess what, it's not for 99% of people, it's just that some people changed the definition of the word "racist" so that they can claim that racism is everywhere all the time, and that there will always be 10s of millions of racist people in the US no matter what (when in reality the number of true racists is much less than that). Convenient, huh?
Just FYI, the definition of "rape" that 99% of people all over the world use is when a man forcibly overpowers (or drugs) a woman and has sex with her against her will. Kissing a girl who doesn't want to be kissed is rude, but it's not rape.
Just FYI, the definition of "racist" that 99% of people all over the world use is when someone discriminates against other humans based solely on their race.
Open your eyes, people have been deceiving you. Seriously.
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Member Since: 1/4/2014
Posts: 22,877
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Quote:
Originally posted by TheLuckyOnes
i was not distancing myself from all gays, i was listing reasons as to why i dont view it as being toxic. And how i was asserting my masculinity by just listen reasons why i see things differently???
me saying i was different than you gays was in relation to your comment about bullying and being afraid to hold hands etc
like i said im allowed to have an opinion
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You are allowed your opinion, and I'm allowed to draw into view it's simplistic, ignorant-of-fact points that really make no sense outside of the small, fortunate bubble it seems you live in. The majority of gays in the world are not eagerly accepted by arms open straights, and I'm not interested in an army of white USA citizens bothering to tell me otherwise.
Remember - "masculinity" is not white, or owned by Americans. Shocking I know.
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