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Discussion: Atheists & Agnostics Hangout Thread.
ATRL Contributor
Member Since: 8/8/2008
Posts: 21,933
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Quote:
Originally posted by AvrilLaQueen
so the big news today in my country was this story:
http://www.24sata.hr/news/aktivisti-...jenticu-493968
religious christian freaks came to a local hospital in a small town to harrass a woman who they found out would get an abortion there. They posted on their facebook group asking "as many people as possible to come and pray" outside that local hospital because someone who works at that hospital contacted those christians and told them to come and pray (harrass) this woman
thankfully I saw a lot of outrage in this crappy country for the first time, people were actually siding with the woman, and not these religous bigots!
and seeing as someone from that hospital broke the law for privacy of their patients, they might (I hope) face prison or pay a price for violating such rights. 
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Wow
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Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 15,921
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Member Since: 4/29/2012
Posts: 15,977
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Quote:
Originally posted by AvrilLaQueen
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Scary how people still make arguments like the ones in the pamphlet 
If I see one more person take this Darwin quote out of context...
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Member Since: 5/27/2016
Posts: 5,054
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I don't really get how evolution vs creationism is a debate. Do they look around ? Evolution is everywhere, do they not notice how kids are getting taller, and that themselves they're probably taller than their parents like.. 
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Member Since: 4/29/2012
Posts: 15,977
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Quote:
Originally posted by FBF
I don't really get how evolution vs creationism is a debate. Do they look around ? Evolution is everywhere, do they not notice how kids are getting taller, and that themselves they're probably taller than their parents like.. 
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It isn't a debate anywhere in the western world except in the bible region in America tbh.
And yeah evolution is clearly evident and observable all around although I find your example to be a little weak considering that people often shirink naturally when they age. Obviously I see what you mean but someone who isn't "convinced of evolution" would brush it off as weak.
But I agree that the evidence is overwhelming and obvious to anyone who bothers to check.
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Member Since: 5/27/2016
Posts: 5,054
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Quote:
Originally posted by Lucas32
It isn't a debate anywhere in the western world except in the bible region in America tbh.
And yeah evolution is clearly evident and observable all around although I find your example to be a little weak considering that people often shirink naturally when they age. Obviously I see what you mean but someone who isn't "convinced of evolution" would brush it off as weak.
But I agree that the evidence is overwhelming and obvious to anyone who bothers to check.
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That's actually another example that shows creationism is BS. I mean isn't God supposed to have given me my height ? 
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Member Since: 9/17/2011
Posts: 5,996
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Quote:
Originally posted by Adir
Yes, and I hate every religion. It only brings hatred, wars and death to the world.

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Same.
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Member Since: 4/29/2012
Posts: 15,977
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Quote:
Originally posted by FBF
That's actually another example that shows creationism is BS. I mean isn't God supposed to have given me my height ? 
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The idea of creationism and "intelligent design" has been disproven so many times, at this point it's merely willfully ignorant people holding on to it.
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Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 15,921
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Member Since: 7/23/2010
Posts: 6,705
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Quote:
Originally posted by Lucas32
The idea of creationism and "intelligent design" has been disproven so many times, at this point it's merely willfully ignorant people holding on to it.
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They are NOT disproven. That's actually the very reason why (Young Earth) creationism and Intelligent Design are not considered scientific because they cannot be disproved or falsified. In science, a theory must have the power to make predictions and be capable of being falsified. Any theory that attempts to explain the universe through an Intelligent Designer isn’t a scientific theory because it isn't observable or testable. It’s impossible to design an experiment to prove or disprove the existence of such an entity. Thus, YEC and ID are unfalsifiable ideas. They are NOT necessarily proven to be false. They just don't belong in science. They belong in philosophy or religion.
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Member Since: 4/29/2012
Posts: 15,977
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Quote:
Originally posted by fabbriche
They are NOT disproven. That's actually the very reason why (Young Earth) creationism and Intelligent Design are not considered scientific because they cannot be disproved or falsified. In science, a theory must have the power to make predictions and be capable of being falsified. Any theory that attempts to explain the universe through an Intelligent Designer isn’t a scientific theory because it isn't observable or testable. It’s impossible to design an experiment to prove or disprove the existence of such an entity. Thus, YEC and ID are unfalsifiable ideas. They are NOT necessarily proven to be false. They just don't belong in science. They belong in philosophy or religion.
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Of course YE,ID and creationism can be disproven?
Countless dating methods proving the earth is around 4.6 billion years old ->YE disproven
Evolution proving that humans didn't pop into existence fully formed but evolved -> creationism disproven
Humans and other animals having many "flaws" such as the appendix for example ->not intelligently designed
Just because something is philosophical and religious does not mean it can't be disproven by science and logic.,
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Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 15,921
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Quote:
Originally posted by Lucas32
Of course YE,ID and creationism can be disproven?
Countless dating methods proving the earth is around 4.6 billion years old ->YE disproven
Evolution proving that humans didn't pop into existence fully formed but evolved -> creationism disproven
Humans and other animals having many "flaws" such as the appendix for example ->not intelligently designed
Just because something is philosophical and religious does not mean it can't be disproven by science and logic.,
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Member Since: 7/23/2010
Posts: 6,705
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Quote:
Originally posted by Lucas32
Of course YE,ID and creationism can be disproven?
Countless dating methods proving the earth is around 4.6 billion years old ->YE disproven
Evolution proving that humans didn't pop into existence fully formed but evolved -> creationism disproven
Humans and other animals having many "flaws" such as the appendix for example ->not intelligently designed
Just because something is philosophical and religious does not mean it can't be disproven by science and logic.,
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Those are the evidence that substantiate the Theory of Evolution and contradict the specific claims of YEC and ID. They do not disprove YEC and ID. What they do is demonstrate that the Theory of Evolution is the better (read: scientific) explanation, and that YEC and ID are not needed to explain the world in scientific terms. This isn't saying they are wrong or disproved. They are simply just not scientific. Like I said, they aptly belong in a philosophical/religious discussion or debate, not in science. The veritable mountain of evidence of a theory does not disprove any other competing idea or theory. The actual disproof or falsification for YEC and ID should come internally and not from other competing theories/ideas because no theory, scientific or otherwise, is and can ever be proven, Look up "Falsifiability" and "Problem of Induction."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falsifiability
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Problem_of_induction
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Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 15,921
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Quote:
Originally posted by fabbriche
Those are the evidence that substantiate the Theory of Evolution and contradict the specific claims of YEC and ID. They do not disprove YEC and ID. What they do is demonstrate that the Theory of Evolution is the better (read: scientific) explanation, and that YEC and ID are not needed to explain the world in scientific terms. This isn't saying they are wrong or disproved. They are simply just not scientific. Like I said, they aptly belong in a philosophical/religious discussion or debate, not in science. The veritable mountain of evidence of a theory does not disprove any other competing idea or theory. The actual disproof or falsification for YEC and ID should come internally and not from other competing theories/ideas because no theory, scientific or otherwise, is and can ever be proven, Look up "Falsifiability" and "Problem of Induction."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falsifiability
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Problem_of_induction
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and what are you exactly trying to prove here? that creationism is real? 
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Member Since: 3/1/2012
Posts: 5,765
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Quote:
Originally posted by AvrilLaQueen
and what are you exactly trying to prove here? that creationism is real? 
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Don't waste any more of your time 
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Member Since: 4/29/2012
Posts: 15,977
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Quote:
Originally posted by fabbriche
Those are the evidence that substantiate the Theory of Evolution and contradict the specific claims of YEC and ID. They do not disprove YEC and ID. What they do is demonstrate that the Theory of Evolution is the better (read: scientific) explanation, and that YEC and ID are not needed to explain the world in scientific terms. This isn't saying they are wrong or disproved. They are simply just not scientific. Like I said, they aptly belong in a philosophical/religious discussion or debate, not in science. The veritable mountain of evidence of a theory does not disprove any other competing idea or theory. The actual disproof or falsification for YEC and ID should come internally and not from other competing theories/ideas because no theory, scientific or otherwise, is and can ever be proven, Look up "Falsifiability" and "Problem of Induction."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falsifiability
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Problem_of_induction
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I don't really understand what you're getting at here? Are we arguing semantics because you don't think the word "disprove" is accurate? I honestly don't care much for philosophical thinking and when people make claims like the young earth claim, they are effectively moving away from religion/philosophy and invading the field of science. Whether it is intended or not, the person is picking up an inherently scientific question and making a scientific claim. And those can and are disproven by evidence.
And if you don't agree with the word "disprove" then my point is the following: creationism, young earth and everything of the sort is not viable and useless to the real world.
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Member Since: 7/23/2010
Posts: 6,705
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Quote:
Originally posted by Lucas32
I don't really understand what you're getting at here? Are we arguing semantics because you don't think the word "disprove" is accurate? I honestly don't care much for philosophical thinking and when people make claims like the young earth claim, they are effectively moving away from religion/philosophy and invading the field of science. Whether it is intended or not, the person is picking up an inherently scientific question and making a scientific claim. And those can and are disproven by evidence.
And if you don't agree with the word "disprove" then my point is the following: creationism, young earth and everything of the sort is not viable and useless to the real world.
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To disprove something implies that the evidence used against it is an indisputable proof when proof doesn't exist in science in the first place. As I've said in this thread, science doesn't deal in absolute nor with proof. It deals in probability and with evidence. It is not set in stone. All scientific knowledge is provisional. They are never final. They change all the time. They are able to be modified or overthrown by a competing, better model or theory, or just a further refinement of the current model or theory. Likewise, no scientific evidence can be irrefutable proof of anything. All scientific evidence is falsifiable. No amount of evidence will prove a theory. Theories remain conjectural. But a single evidence found to contradict a scientific theory would destroy it completely. See David Hume's quote. That's the very hallmark of science. It can always be shown to be false in future experiments. Philosophical/religious ideas cannot be proved or disproved. Scientific theories cannot be proved, but they can be disproved. The scientific method is not meant to prove a scientific theory true, but rather, false. In fact scientists are ALWAYS trying to find ways to disprove or falsify (the proper term here) their theories. That's their job. If they cannot be falsified, they are not scientific. That's basically what sets science apart from other disciplines.
To put it shortly, scientific theories are falsifiable ideas (not proven facts) that haven't been falsified yet. And when they have been falsified, they are relegated to this category.
Some philosophical/religious ideas may contradict existing scientific theories but they are not and can not be disproved by those theories because even those theories are not immutable. For a thing to be disproved, it has to pass the criterion of falsifiability first. Philosophical/religious ideas all fail to stand up to that basic criterion. YEC and ID are pseudosciences. They are refuted (not disproved) by generally accepted current scientific theories which themselves are not 100% proven.
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Member Since: 7/23/2010
Posts: 6,705
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Quote:
Originally posted by AvrilLaQueen
and what are you exactly trying to prove here? that creationism is real? 
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I'm not saying they are real. But they aren't necessarily wrong either. What makes them wrong is the category mistake of presenting them as scientific when, like I already said, they properly belong in a philosophical or religious discussion. What is and isn't real, itself, is also a matter of philosophical discussion. The academic fields devoted to the study of reality and existence are metaphysics and ontology. Science only deals with perceptual reality, or reality filtered through human senses.
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Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 15,921
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Quote:
Originally posted by fabbriche
I'm not saying they are real. But they aren't necessarily wrong either. What makes them wrong is the category mistake of presenting them as scientific when, like I already said, they properly belong in a philosophical or religious discussion. What is and isn't real, itself, is also a matter of philosophical discussion. The academic fields devoted to the study of reality and existence are metaphysics and ontology. Science only deals with perceptual reality, or reality filtered through human senses.
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well seeing how religion is based on myth, faith and no evidence, people tend to believe evolution which gave us more answers about our history and human body than religion does. (yet alone the fact that religion claims things that haven already been disproved.)
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Member Since: 4/29/2012
Posts: 15,977
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Quote:
Originally posted by fabbriche
I'm not saying they are real. But they aren't necessarily wrong either. What makes them wrong is the category mistake of presenting them as scientific when, like I already said, they properly belong in a philosophical or religious discussion. What is and isn't real, itself, is also a matter of philosophical discussion. The academic fields devoted to the study of reality and existence are metaphysics and ontology. Science only deals with perceptual reality, or reality filtered through human senses.
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Yeah, I don't think anybody here is interested in those weird philosophical discussions or pointless discussions about whether "disprove" is the correct word to use.
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