|
News: Muslim teen ordered to shake female hands by Swiss school
Member Since: 4/20/2012
Posts: 3,792
|
She shouldn't have escalated it this much, but what is he going to do if he is in an interview with a woman? Not shake her hand? "Oh, sorry, it's against my religion to touch your hand!" When you enter a different culture, you must assimilate to a certain level to function within said society. If you are new or unaware, it's fine, and people will give you plenty of time to catch up. If you fail to adapt after being told how things are done, you either deal with it and allow yourself to be let behind, or you move. That's common practice everywhere you go, regardless or religion or culture.
|
|
|
Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 18,016
|
Quote:
Originally posted by Archetype
She shouldn't have escalated it this much, but what is he going to do if he is in an interview with a woman? Not shake her hand? "Oh, sorry, it's against my religion to touch your hand!" When you enter a different culture, you must assimilate to a certain level to function within said society. If you are new or unaware, it's fine, and people will give you plenty of time to catch up. If you fail to adapt after being told how things are done, you either deal with it and allow yourself to be let behind, or you move. That's common practice everywhere you go, regardless or religion or culture.
|
This isn't true at all 
The US is extremely understanding of religious reasoning preventing an individual from partaking in certain practices, hence why we consider ourselves open-minded & don't force our social norms on everyone that moves here
|
|
|
Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 14,099
|
Quote:
Originally posted by T-Swizz
This isn't true at all 
The US is extremely understanding of religious reasoning preventing an individual from partaking in certain practices, hence why we consider ourselves open-minded & don't force our social norms on everyone that moves here
|
What are you saying? Even the U.S. requires that people assimilate.
|
|
|
Member Since: 5/2/2012
Posts: 15,418
|
Quote:
Originally posted by Archetype
She shouldn't have escalated it this much, but what is he going to do if he is in an interview with a woman? Not shake her hand? "Oh, sorry, it's against my religion to touch your hand!" When you enter a different culture, you must assimilate to a certain level to function within said society. If you are new or unaware, it's fine, and people will give you plenty of time to catch up. If you fail to adapt after being told how things are done, you either deal with it and allow yourself to be let behind, or you move. That's common practice everywhere you go, regardless or religion or culture.
|
Traditions/manners and niceties should never supersede basic human rights.
Sure it'd be simpler if he chose to be more flexible, but at the end of the day he still has the most basic right to decide what happens with his own body. Any person should have a right to decide whether they will touch someone or allow someone else to touch them; in this situation social decorum and people potentially being offended is being given priority over basic human rights of other individuals. And the fact that this is legally supported is not only extreme but, flat out crazy. They're attempting to remedy a regressive social practice with an even more regressive solution.
And I honestly don't understand this notion of "live exactly like us or leave" -- if someone is abiding by the laws and not causing any disturbances or harm, why do they need to follow all local behavioral patterns? I live in the south in the US and here, it's a social norm for people to smile and/or greet people -- even complete strangers -- in passing and it's considered impolite/rude by many to make eye contact with someone and not acknowledge their presence. To many people from other places, that can be awkward and uncomfortable, which is fine; it's not a personal right of mine to have strangers warmly greet me even though it's customary where I live. I don't think anyone should be forced into behaving as I do above and beyond simply abiding by the general laws.
|
|
|
Member Since: 4/14/2011
Posts: 48,397
|
Quote:
Originally posted by Gavroche
True, but dress code rules are for everyone and all students have equal treatment for violating it. Nowhere in the article it says that handshake is school's policy, the student was punished because the teacher interpreted his behavior as an insult to herself and her entitled ass was just abusing her power instead of being the bigger person and let him be.
|
Eh, fair enough. It's more of an implied policy though. There are certain rules which are always open to interpretation. Also how do we know it's a policy just for him? Maybe someone else refusing the handshake could've caused just as much trouble.
|
|
|
Member Since: 4/14/2011
Posts: 48,397
|
Quote:
Originally posted by Lord Blackout
Look, not all religious beliefs are appropriate for the current day and age. No matter how you ironically hide behind the personal freedom excuse (Especially when those beliefs translate on a systematic level in countless nations that oppress that personal freedom).
I've got plenty of texts from the old testament and the quran in mind.
|
I do agree with that, and it's not a West vs non-West thing. Now, refusing to do a handshake is no biggie. Who cares. But when it comes to things like female genital mutilation for instance, which is linked to tradition--is that permissible? What about hate speech in religious beliefs? I do not agree with people preaching jihadism or with the Westboro Baptist Church harassing LGBT with the excuse of religion. So not everything can be excused over cultural sensitivity.
This however can, I think. But I do disagree with his belief, I find it sexist as well 
|
|
|
Member Since: 9/1/2013
Posts: 5,014
|
Quote:
Originally posted by Gui Blackout
The tradition of of muslim man not shaking a women's hands das nothing to do with misogyny wtf?  If anything it's a sign of respect.
|
This. I hate all of you ignorant people so much.
|
|
|
Member Since: 1/6/2014
Posts: 2,264
|
|
|
|
Member Since: 3/25/2012
Posts: 10,673
|
I'm all for freedom of religion and the freedom to practice your beliefs in whatever society you are living in. However, when your religious beliefs clash with or work to eliminate the civil beliefs/rights/freedoms of other people, they need to be changed or abolished.
Any rule that forces you to be misogynistic, sexist, homophobic or racist to someone else has no place in society.  Idk if hand-shaking falls under that umbrella, but take that as you will. 
|
|
|
Member Since: 5/27/2016
Posts: 151
|
Quote:
Originally posted by Artemisia
1) It's not even true, for one. There are many muslim countries where you can wear a bikini in public.
2) Assuming it is true (that all muslim nations would restrict that basic right of westerners who visit) why should Western society stoop to that level by compromising their values of freedom to "get back" at those nations? It's a shockingly immature point of view.
|
So you're saying we shouldn't stoop to their level - yet we should let people discriminate based on sex by refusing to shake hands with a woman? Wouldn't that compromise the "values of freedom" you're talking about?
Perhaps all western societies should enforce sharia law, you know - just so we don't upset anyone.
|
|
|
Member Since: 5/27/2016
Posts: 151
|
Quote:
Originally posted by Artemisia
Demanding a handshake, or demanding you let someone touch you and you touch them is not the same as declining that.
You aren't owed physical contact.
|
You are so ****ing obtuse. This isn't about physical contact.
If he's so scared to touch a womans hand perhaps he should wear a plastic glove on his hand 24/7.
Problem solved.
|
|
|
Member Since: 1/2/2014
Posts: 23,393
|
He should have the right to not shake anyone's hand if he wants without people overreacting and crying about it. I refuse to shake hands too because some people have dry skin and it's horrible.
|
|
|
Member Since: 5/27/2016
Posts: 2,555
|
Quote:
Originally posted by Archetype
She shouldn't have escalated it this much, but what is he going to do if he is in an interview with a woman? Not shake her hand? "Oh, sorry, it's against my religion to touch your hand!" When you enter a different culture, you must assimilate to a certain level to function within said society. If you are new or unaware, it's fine, and people will give you plenty of time to catch up. If you fail to adapt after being told how things are done, you either deal with it and allow yourself to be let behind, or you move. That's common practice everywhere you go, regardless or religion or culture.
|
And in places like Canada and the US, the person would likely respond, "Oh, really? Oh, good to know!" and maybe even ask what religion they were and discuss it like rational adults who respect each others' backgrounds.

|
|
|
Member Since: 5/27/2016
Posts: 2,555
|
Quote:
Originally posted by Lord Blackout
Yeah, no. I think the rape-ridden Sweden, Germany and Denmark probably care.
|
See, y'all can just admit you're Islamophobic and these threads can end much quicker.
Y'all blaming a little boy for other people raping others cause they share a religion?
Racist ATRL as always. The KKKlan in full effect.
|
|
|
Member Since: 8/19/2013
Posts: 28,773
|
Quote:
Originally posted by Communion
See, y'all can just admit you're Islamophobic and these threads can end much quicker.
Y'all blaming a little boy for other people raping others cause they share a religion?
Racist ATRL as always. The KKKlan in full effect.
|
A- Islam is not a race. Pretty basic concept
B- The separation of women and men puts a sexual twist on women. The belief that men can't control themselves around women is way outdated. The belief that a man and woman would be better off not shaking hands is outdated. The belief that a woman has to be covered so that she can live in a man's world is outdated (Of course, if it's her decision to wear a hijab I fully support it. I'm speaking of families forcing it on its female members). That is why when Muslim immigrants from Somalia (for instance) got to Sweden, they caused rape numbers to soar. They're not used to living with women who don't cover themselves from head to toe and don't abstain from shaking a man's hands. This is a statistically proven truth.
C- It's the 21st century. With all the advancement of human rights and women's rights, there's no reason why a man and woman can't innocently shake hands. If you wanna call me racist because it's a copeout for you, then feel free to do so. I am a mixed Arab and I do have Muslim relatives and friends that all shake each other's hands with no issue so I'm certainly more qualified to speak on the subject than you are.
D- As a gay man, you should not be defending these heteronormative beliefs to begin with.
E- Once again, calling for the reform of a religion so that it can survive in the 21st century doesn't make me racist.
F- No, I'm not implying Muslims are rapists. Statistically, Muslim nations are less likely to have high numbers of reported sexual harassment and abuse cases. I was merely showing how harmful these beliefs can be in the face of social integration.
|
|
|
|
|