| |
Discussion: Are you a feminist?
Member Since: 8/19/2013
Posts: 9,012
|
I'm a feminist if we go by the standard definition: "Equality of the sexes." However, I think modern feminism has taken form as something else.
I believe attractive women in Western society have the most privilege out of anyone, and that's not because men are objectifying them. Men are expected to pursue women and be the gentlemen, so for attractive women they go above and beyond. These same men likely treat unattractive women with humanly respect as well, but not to the extent of attractive women they wish to pursue. Women don't pursue men because they expect the man to pursue them, which is wrong. If this were the case, though, attractive men would ultimately get treated better because that's the privilege of being attractive.
From my perspective, the ridiculous beauty expectations of women are a result of consumerism, not necessarily due to a man's objectification. Women invest more in beauty products, they always have, and so corporations have manipulated them to need more in attempt to gain profits. These expectations have become extraordinarily high because of MONEY.
I believe the wage gap is mostly because females don't pursue higher wage jobs--they are more inclined to hold family responsibilites. This isn't 100% a choice persay, but due to an expectation of the man to provide the income needs and the woman to provide the family affection needs. I would love to see this change, and I believe it is today. However, men don't want to be seen as unproviding as society judges that. I think the solution for this is to have women treat men as equals from the get go, and men to accept that a women providing does not mean he is lacking.
Unfortunately, if women continue expecting men to pay for the check, hold the door open, and treat them like princesses, nothing will change and the guy will always be expected by society to step up more. Women should be treated like princesses, but men should be treated like princes. So women need to step up just as much as men when reaching gender equality in my opinion.
Idk, feel free to correct me on anything. 
|
|
|
|
ATRL Contributor
Member Since: 8/19/2013
Posts: 15,224
|
Yes, I am a feminist.
I believe women are equal to men and should be treated as such by society. That's it basically.
Quote:
|
I believe attractive women in Western society have the most privilege out of anyone, and that's not because men are objectifying them. Men are expected to pursue women and be the gentlemen, so for attractive women they go above and beyond. These same men likely treat unattractive women with humanly respect as well, but not to the extent of attractive women they wish to pursue.
|
Feminists routinely address the issue of 'chivalry' or whatever, we don't expect men to pay for everything. That's another example of how feminism will help men. You're very misguided if you believe feminists want women to be above men/to have the best of both worlds.
Of course in some ways women benefit from gender inequality (chivalry and better treatment in custody cases are two of the main ones), but these all seem very trivial when you look at the hardships we face due to sexism.
In terms of the wage gap, just go read a few articles (not from biased, sexist sources) and you should find that the wage gap does in fact exist. Ask a lot of women in high up positions, they will most likely have seen first hand that men around them get paid more for no reason.
|
|
|
|
Member Since: 8/7/2015
Posts: 6,930
|
|
|
|
|
Banned
Member Since: 9/12/2011
Posts: 9,897
|
I am by definition I just don't like to label myself with that word because of the 3rd wave feminism which is about mansplaining and microaggressions. 
Everyone is so concerned about labels and the most important thing is to SAY you're something, not act upon it and it doesn't matter if you're doing whatever you can to advance the idea of equality unless you call yourself feminist you're labeled as trash, scum, misogynist, ignorant etc by these SJW lunatics off tumblr/twitter etc. I don't subscribe to any ideology but my own. 
|
|
|
|
Member Since: 8/19/2013
Posts: 31,020
|
yes, but not a Lena Dunham'd one
|
|
|
|
Member Since: 8/7/2015
Posts: 1,975
|
Quote:
Originally posted by Buddy
I believe attractive women in Western society have the most privilege out of anyone, and that's not because men are objectifying them. Men are expected to pursue women and be the gentlemen, so for attractive women they go above and beyond. These same men likely treat unattractive women with humanly respect as well, but not to the extent of attractive women they wish to pursue. Women don't pursue men because they expect the man to pursue them, which is wrong. If this were the case, though, attractive men would ultimately get treated better because that's the privilege of being attractive.
|
Depends though. I think attractive men have it easier. If you are an attractive woman, the men you want to ask you out might not want to approach you because they are intimidated etc. Attractive straight men get it easier I think as they are in the lead role according to societal roles. They can easily approach women with the confidence of their looks. They've probably had enough women into them before so they will have developed a confidence/assurance about themselves (not necessarily cocky). Also straight men are taken more seriously. Attractive women are considered ditsy or if you have a good job, it will be assumed you slept your way to the position. Men don't really suffer that as the top employer is statistically a man anyway.
|
|
|
|
Member Since: 8/19/2013
Posts: 9,012
|
Quote:
Originally posted by Kim Kardashian
Yes, I am a feminist.
I believe women are equal to men and should be treated as such by society. That's it basically.
Feminists routinely address the issue of 'chivalry' or whatever, we don't expect men to pay for everything. That's another example of how feminism will help men. You're very misguided if you believe feminists want women to be above men/to have the best of both worlds.
Of course in some ways women benefit from gender inequality (chivalry and better treatment in custody cases are two of the main ones), but these all seem very trivial when you look at the hardships we face due to sexism.
In terms of the wage gap, just go read a few articles (not from biased, sexist sources) and you should find that the wage gap does in fact exist. Ask a lot of women in high up positions, they will most likely have seen first hand that men around them get paid more for no reason. |
I don't think feminists expect men to treat them like princesses (although some do who don't really get it), but I think all women need to be on board with the fact that they can't have these expectations of men, because it hurts them in the long run.
What are the hardships women face due to sexism? I'm sure there are a lot, but I'm curious.
The wage gap probably has sexism rooted in it, but it's also due to women's expectation to fill the household/family roles. This isn't always sexist, and in fact, some would consider it an advantage. But ultimately, women need to refuse this advantage and take just as much importance in her career as men and eventually the gap will start closing.
|
|
|
|
Member Since: 8/19/2013
Posts: 9,012
|
Quote:
Originally posted by Rumbler
Depends though. I think attractive men have it easier. If you are an attractive woman, the men you want to ask you out might not want to approach you because they are intimidated etc. Attractive straight men get it easier I think as they are in the lead role according to societal roles. They can easily approach women with the confidence of their looks. They've probably had enough women into them before so they will have developed a confidence/assurance about themselves (not necessarily cocky). Also straight men are taken more seriously. Attractive women are considered ditsy or if you have a good job, it will be assumed you slept your way to the position. Men don't really suffer that as the top employer is statistically a man anyway.
|
I think women are the ones who treat attractive women the worst. Men may be intimidated, but ultimately most go above and beyond if a woman's attractive.
|
|
|
|
Member Since: 6/2/2011
Posts: 28,055
|
As if "equality of the sexes" that has ever been what feminists have actually stood for  Don't ever take political slogans at face value.
Over my dead body will I ever associate with what this toxic movement has become. The Camille Paglia variant of feminism, sure. Third wave Jezebel feminism? Hell no.
|
|
|
|
ATRL Contributor
Member Since: 8/19/2013
Posts: 15,224
|
Quote:
Originally posted by Buddy
I don't think feminists expect men to treat them like princesses (although some do who don't really get it), but I think all women need to be on board with the fact that they can't have these expectations of men, because it hurts them in the long run.
What are the hardships women face due to sexism? I'm sure there are a lot, but I'm curious.
The wage gap probably has sexism rooted in it, but it's also due to women's expectation to fill the household/family roles. This isn't always sexist, and in fact, some would consider it an advantage. But ultimately, women need to refuse this advantage and take just as much importance in her career as men and eventually the gap will start closing.
|
Admittedly, a lot of women do have those expectations but this is due to them being taught to have them by society. Those expectations are a byproduct of sexism.
Rape, domestic violence, pay inequality, etc.
Not to mention the expectation that not only should they work like men (for less money...) but that they should at the same time run the family home pretty much by themselves.
The wage gap definitely has sexism rooted in. Even if it was down solely to women taken on household roles (which definitely plays a part but not the largest one) this is because of sexism. From birth women are programmed by society to accept that these roles are their responsibility and not the man's. Also, if women just aren't pursuing higher wages (which is only partly true), this again because they've been taught by society to expect less. One of the main reasons the wage gap exists is because of masculinity. It is seen as 'emasculating' (notice how there is no female version of this term) for a man to be paid less than a woman so many higher up people (who are of course mostly men) overpay male workers/underpay female workers.
|
|
|
|
Member Since: 8/31/2013
Posts: 571
|
Yes, but an intersectional feminist (that is, a real feminist). I have no time for white feminism.
|
|
|
|
ATRL Contributor
Member Since: 5/27/2016
Posts: 16,541
|
|
|
|
|
Member Since: 8/7/2015
Posts: 2,026
|
|
|
|
|
Member Since: 5/27/2016
Posts: 6,297
|
I call out sexism IRL when I see it and encourage the women I know to not let men hold them back in anything while supporting them in anyway I can.
So no.
|
|
|
|
Member Since: 8/18/2013
Posts: 15,732
|
|
|
|
|
Banned
Member Since: 8/7/2015
Posts: 7,381
|
|
|
|
|
Member Since: 5/27/2016
Posts: 1,840
|
I believe in equality for the sexes, I don't call myself a feminist because it is all so complicated there are like 47 different labels for it, I'm sure tumblr must have a hand in that mess.
|
|
|
|
Member Since: 5/27/2016
Posts: 3,023
|
Yes, both genders should be equal.
|
|
|
|
Member Since: 8/10/2012
Posts: 1,700
|
No 
I don't live in an oppressive Muslamic nation where women have no say in anything, so I really see no need for feminism. Feminists and SJWs like to point to rape a lot and by all means is it awful, but why do they act like rape is something special? You don't see men try to make it about themselves as men when it's obvious men get murdered (even worse) more than women
|
|
|
|
Member Since: 11/27/2010
Posts: 9,806
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
