^
Janets videos dont have alot of views either... It doesn't mean there not iconic. Same goes for Madonna.

No it hasn't sold 8 million worldwide. Various sources, including Sony, have it listed around 13 million and the minimum estimate is at around 7 million (ukmix). These sales, considering it pretty much wasn't promoted at all, was sabatoged by Sony, and only had one top 10 hit (albeit only three singles were realeased) are pretty impressive. I'm curious as to how you are oh so positive it hasn't sold 8 million when you haven't seemed to post any sources yourself, just opinions.

Secondly, how do you have the nerve to say Love Never Felt So Good only reached Vevo certified status because of Justin Timberlake but go on to give Madonna props for having BIM reach 200m even though it featured Nicki Minaj and had a plethora of celebrities including VARIOUS younger and current pop girls? How sway? And even then BIM only peaked in the mid-80s I believe while LNFSG peaked at #9.

Also there are plenty of non-Vevo 70s/80s and even some 90s videos (that also aren't available in numerous countries) that are on youtube and still have a significant amount of views. I'm talking at least 50m+. A lot of which were also uploaded later than her videos too. Just because many of her's don't isn't an excuse.

Lastly, his catalog was still outselling hers even before he died. Just go look at any chart from the 2000s. I can find numerous times in which Number Ones or The Essential Michael Jackson, were still charting. Hell I even remember seeing he was one of the top selling artists on BB in 2008. Meanwhile it The Immaculate Collection was realased in hadn't re-charted on the BB200 until at least 2 or 3 years ago and that was only one time. MJ regulary has 4 or 5 albums on the BB200 at any given time. Also his streaming to this day leads her's by a significant magin.

I'll end this by saying, what Madonna video, that isn't BIM, has managed to collect over 100m views? What songs of her's on spotify have managed to collect over 100m+ streams on spotify? Which of her pre-2010 studio albums of her's have re-charted on the BB200 this decade?

then why did it chart #1 on Billboard Club charts?

[Belittling Madonna? So what is this?

Fact: Madonna's album just now crossed the 1m mark and if it hasn't is still sitting at around 900k. Xscape has sold anywhere from 1.7m to 2m.

This is just so idiotic and juevenile i'm not going to waste my time collecting the recipets to ether it. I will say that Thriller was still the best selling album of all time before he died and i'm going to leave it at that.

Fact: ALL POP ALBUMS ARE DISCOUNTED ON ITUNES RIGHT NOW, INCLUDING MADONNA'S. I see Michael's Number Ones resting at #22 and Thriller sitting at #59. Madonna's are no where to be found here in US itunes, at least it the top 150.

Fact: More than both Ghosttown and LFL. Also charted higher than Ghosttown, LFL, and BIM.

Fixed that for you.

https://www.ukmix.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=110645

https://www.bpi.co.uk/home/british-a...sic-sales.aspx

If you don't mind me asking could you give me the link and sales breakdown for Rebel Heart if you don't mind .

Little boy this is moreso you and your lack or ability to form a legitamate argument and comparison without calling those facts brought against you as "excuses." The fact is Invincible was deliberately sabatoged by Sony and was extremely underpromoted. The fact is numerous videos from the 70s/80/90s aren't on Vevo and aren't available in all countries yet have still been able to cross the 50m and in some cases the 100m benchmark. if they could do it then surely Madonna should have been able to.

Also if your going to make ludicrus claims like MJ has been over since 2001 why can't you take the time to research your own facts to back that up? Are you that lazy? But anyway here it is

Sony
http://www.lipstickalley.com/showthr...he-King-Of-POP

Ukmix (hasn't been updated since 2009 so it's probably more than this)
https://www.ukmix.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=63110



Why are did you start belittiling Michael then? What does that have to do with BIM surpassing 200m views? Why are you in this thread? Why are you here if you don't care about any video hitting the 100m or 200m mark? You should ask the majority of these questions to the OP who made up this so called "achievement" in the first place, more than likely out of insecurity and a need for validation from other stans. And no little boy. Deceased Michael had one other celebrity in his video while Madonna had at least 7 or 8 different celebrities in her's. And also on Michael's videos that actually have 200m+ views no other celebrities are present.


Like I said these are two completely different situations child. The only reason you are downplaying the fact that Invincible's underpromotion played a part in it's underperformance and that Madonna not having a Vevo account or her videos available in all countries is because it doesn't work it in her favor. "Excuses" and facts are two different things. Learn the difference.


http://atrl.net/forums/showthread.php?t=509271

If you don't want to talk about catalog sales, streaming, and views then why did you say Michael has been over since 2001? Why say something so stupid and then get mad when you get facts thrown in your face? You have done nothing but accentuate that Michael was a pedophile, attribute all of his post-death accomplishments to mere sympathy (even though he dies a whole 7 years ago), and put him down to boost Madonna up when the stats explicitly state quite the opposite. You should be the last person trying to accuse someone of belittiling an artist.

QUOTE=C.Damen;35339425]

For the upteenth time, why did you say that Michael has been over since 2001 and people only buy his records out of sympathy if you weren't going to back it up? Why say something so stupid and no even look to see if your fave surpasses him in anything (catalog sales, re-charting, video views, streaming, none of which she does)? Why are you back tracking? If you don't care to even research and look for simple reciepts why make such stupid claims? I'm signed up here to defend my fave like everyone else and if you don't like it you can kindly put me on ignore. I'm suprised you actually acknowledge that Michael has impact since you've done nothing but act like an immature child regarding him this entire thread. Now you want to acknowledge him and impact now that you can't defend your argument.

Let this be a learning experience and if you don't want to argue about Michael or Madonna, keep her's and especially his name out of your mouth.

http://vh1.mtvnimages.com/uri/mgid:f...1430255143.gif

I'm not reading none of this **** in here.

I just came to say: Bey ha power!!

You at this point
https://cdn1.lockerdome.com/uploads/...9bf5_:original

You have the nerve to say your a Michael fan for the sake of saving yourself in this argument but you call him a pedophile, reduce his accomplishments to people feeling sorry for his death, and downplay him to uplift Madonna, not just on here but as I have too been looking through your posting history it seems you do that whenever he is brought up. That's just sorry and pathetic.

Like I said if you're going to press me on and on about Michael's poshthomous sales then give me the breakdown of Rebel Heart's since you are so dead set at it selling over 1 million copies. And honey when you add this all up, which you don't seem to be that efficient at doing, the difference is still anywhere from 600k to 1M, with SPS added or not. And also in today's sales climate, be it 400k, 600k, or 1m, those are all significant margins.

Offthewall pointed out the fault in your logic, which are far and few between. Hard Candy was realeased in 2008, completely different sales climate, and supported with the highest grossing world tour by a solo artist of all time. MDNA was promoted with selling free tickets with the album, the FREAKING SUPERBOWL, the promo to end all promo, and another world tour. Xscape had none of this and still managed to sell 1.7m, from the grave. If Xscape is a flop then MDNA and Rebel Heart must be the absolute pits. The standards and playing field are not the same comparing the albums. Your logic and inability to make a valid comparison is truly astounding.

Yup is just proves your ignorance for insinuating that MJ's records only sold because he died. Also what has the majority of what you have said in this thread have to do with BIM passing 200m. What did you calling Michael a pedophile, saying he's been over since 2001, bringing up his sales and posthumous albums have to do with her so called record? Pot calling the kettle black if i've ever seen it.


Confessions On A Dance Floor: $5.99
MDNA: $5.99

Even aside from itunes The Essential by Michael Jackson is $16.99 and still has no problem charting. Off The Wall is $9.99, the same price as the majority of Madonna's albums, and is still on the BB200 to this day. Your point is invalid.

You are so insecure, who said Michael was the King of the World. Since i'm defending him on a forum that obviously means I think he's God right? Immature. Secondly, Slave To The Rhythm wasn't even released as a single from Xscape and the video isn't even a real music video. It's a freaking hologram performance at the BBMA's.

Yep it peaked at 45, higher than all of Rebel Heart's singles. You were the one that even asked about it not me son.

A non-single, albeit a pretty crappy song by Michael's standard, by an artist that debuted in the 60s from a posthumous album without a real video is an underperformance? If that's what makes you sleep better at night. I wonder what that makes Rebel Heart's singles though?

That's not what I asked you. I asked could you give me a breakdown of it's sales since you seem so desperate paint everything Michael ever did, dead or alive, after the 90s as a failure. You bring up Michael's sales, i'm going to bring up Madonna's. Plain and simple. If you can't give me an answer then stop talking about Michael's sales and wasting both of our time.

I called you a little boy because that's what you sound like. A child. You didn't ask me for anything. You said that you would ask me for the videos I was talking about and then went on to insult me by saying it would be like asking a child to read or write. Reading is fundamental. Also many of Madonna's videos are on different channels, some of which are blocked some of which aren't. Even if you add all of those views together they still don't surpass other's views, let alone Michael's. I brought up streaming so that even if she is in fact the only artist from the 70s/80s/90s with blocked videos and no Vevo, which you seem to really want to believe, she still pales in comparison to Michael and sevreal others there. Don't want to hear this, then like I said keep his name out of your mouth.

I don't feel like copying and pasting links this late at night but since you're too lazy to do it yourself here it is. None of these are on vevo and are all on various channels. If you want more you're going to have to go and find them.

Karma Chameleon: 207m
You're The One That I Want: 129m
We Are The World: 132m
Take On Me: 281m
I Will Always Love You: 161m

Like I said reading is fundamental. It clearly said that the minimum worldwide estimate is 6.7m, and that was over 7 years ago. I don't know where Sony got 13m either but if it has sold that what are you going to do about it. No one has exact figures, just estimates. Maybe you should call and ask Sony if this is so important to you. And like I said Sony's sabatoging of Invincible with extreme underpromotion plays a huge part in its sales.

I can also blame you for responding and then going on to say some of the most unsupported, unresearched, vile, and downright nasty things about Michael in this thread. Yes I do notice many stans do this, and it's pathetic each and every time. It's just the fact that ya'll stan for freaking Madonna of all people and still feel the need to be validated that makes it a bit more pathetic. The reason I responded to this one is because I saw my fave brought up in a negative manner, particularly by you, so I got involved. Like I said if you don't want to see me again, don't talk **** about Michael. Plain and simple.

I'm not downplaying it. I'm stating the fact that she is not the only person with this disasvantage. Why would that have anything to do with Michael? He has a Vevo account and his videos, both of his Vevo account and other accounts, are more than thriving. Again reading is fundamental.

http://i.imgur.com/Bdxw1kK.gif

The fact is that 2014 was the FIRST time it charted since 1993. That is over a 20 year span of it being completely absent from the charts. I don't care how many times it's charted since 2014, but the fact is that it went over 20 years without charting.

Lmao at your backtracking. You originally insinuated that Michael had been over since 2001 in that nothing he did had been successful since that point. Yet another faulty point in your sad excuse for an argument. If Michael didn't realease anything during the last years of his life, then how are you going to say if it was good or not? There is no material to judge! And don't even try it with his posthumous material, which he more than likely didn't want released in the first place, nor was it more than likely his best anyway.

Lastly how are you going to assume that Michael had nothing left to offer during the last years of his life? How do you know he didn't still write songs? How do you know he still didn't make music? Because he decided not to release any and instead focus on fighting the allegations and settling down to raise his children? You're just talking out of your butt at this point.

Why do you are your stanbase constantly need to put down other artists most prodominetly those in my sig, to build her up? I could care less about this made up validation seeking record. I'm here because I saw my fave being dissed and hit with lies so I decided to settle the score. You can all set up a damn parade and national monument for Madonna for all I care, but the minute you try to insult Michael or anyone else in my signature to boost her up, especially when most of it is lies anyway, i'll be there to settle the score. Literally NO other stanbase tries it with Michael and those is my sig and much as ya'll do, not Britney stans, not Katy stans, not Gaga stans, literally NOBODY, so consequently most of my arguments are going to be with Madonna stans. If you don't like it like I said either keep the people in my signature's names out of your mouths or just simply put me on ignore.

Your desperation is truly fascinating. So because I signed up for an Atrl account to defend and argue about Michael and the other's in my signature, like literally yourself and everyone else here, that means it's my life goal and purpose? What kind of faux deducative reasoning? You don't know me nor do you know anything about my life kid.

And you can bring up all of my past argument with Madonna stans before like the insecure child you are. There will be more in the future. As long as the people in my signature continued to be downplayed and insulted by them, and yourself, i'll be there for the insuing argument.

Out of all of the bs you've said in this thread, you calling yourself a Michael fan is probably the most pathetic of all. Even your fave is a better Michael fan than you.

I'm going to end this argument with you and all future stans of anyone who disses my faves by saying what I said before.
http://vh1.mtvnimages.com/uri/mgid:f...1430255143.gif

Goodnight son
http://i3.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/...07/955/54e.gif

Not all these damn stipulations in order to make it sound like a record

-80s Artist
-THIS DECADE
-200M Views
-1M Views.

A "Nicki Minaj first black female rapper to go #1 on iTunes" Tea

It's kind of one of her best songs post-Music

OMG the debut novels!!

damn I didn't realise what went down in this thread

Your fav is dead and there are maggots crawling all over his dead body. It's time to move on.

King Kunta in the thread like

Happy for her , the song though...