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Discussion: Should the US isolate itself?
Member Since: 5/18/2012
Posts: 20,576
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Should the US isolate itself?
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With President Obama already talking about the need for more burden-sharing by allies, and foreign leaders debating whether the United States is pulling back from engagement with the world, the rise of Mr. Trump has left many governments trying to get their bearings and determine how to respond.
In many capitals, Mr. Trump’s formal and off-the-cuff foreign policy proposals — his threat to pull out of NATO; his musings about removing the United States’ nuclear umbrella over Japan and South Korea; his pledge to slap huge trade tariffs on China — are regarded with a mix of alarm and confusion.
Yet Mr. Trump’s assertive positions about American interests have led some officials to look at Mr. Obama’s critique of European and Persian Gulf allies as “free riders” in a new light. They have helped shed light abroad on the domestic political forces at play around Hillary Clinton’s decision to renounce her support for a new Asian trade deal.
“But others should give us Europeans pause for thought,” Mr. Westmacott said. “NATO members need to reflect on whether it’s right, or sustainable, for the U.S. to pay over 70 percent of the bill for our collective security, or how to ensure we take care of the losers as well as the winners in global free trade.”
Clearly, many European policy makers were already disenchanted with Mr. Obama’s reluctance to intervene on their behalf in conflicts where they have national interests, and with his demand that European nations put what he called, in an interview with The Atlantic, more “skin in the game.”
“I think the real subliminal message Trump is saying is this: The U.S. can afford to survive and prosper without any allies if it was forced to cut off all ties, but the converse isn’t true,” said Chung Min Lee, a professor of international relations at Yonsei University in Seoul. He added that Mr. Trump was forcing allies “to come up with convincing elevator speeches on the key benefits they bring to the U.S., and thus far, none of them have done so.”
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ONLY SERIOUS COMMENTS PLEASE!
New York Times
But I agree, and I think the United States needs to stay out of the rest of the world. Because clearly they are taking advantage of the United States. Many countries hate the US, but gladly take their economic aid such as Egypt. Its not fair, and until other countries put their weight, the US should pack its bags and deal with itself. Why spend billions on others when you can improve yourself. Why do European countries get away with not fulfilling their bargain in NATO, one of the main reasons why Russia hasn't invaded them like Ukraine.
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Member Since: 9/1/2013
Posts: 9,393
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Sure, let us become the next North Korea. Why not?
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Member Since: 5/18/2012
Posts: 20,576
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Quote:
Originally posted by Latinazza
Sure, let us become the next North Korea. Why not?
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The US was always an isolationist country. The US isn't now because of Cold War policy which was outlined in the article had you read it. Isolationist meaning no foreign entanglements. The US has been in a constant state of war since the Korean War in the 50s. Billions perhaps trillions has been spent since then to pushed a Cold War policy. But the problem is the Cold War is dead, why are we still supporting NATO? Why are we still have relations with the Middle East? When our biggest ally Saudi Arabia is funding terrorist groups that have no problems attacking the West sending the US into another war.
So this isn't North Korea or any of the BS.
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Member Since: 11/11/2010
Posts: 11,240
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Yes we have only made a mess of the Middle East it's time for a bow out. If Trump gets elected. Geopolitics is the least of our troubles.
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Member Since: 1/20/2012
Posts: 27,830
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I think NATO needs to be renegotiated but we shouldn't completely isolate ourselves
We do waste a lot of money on the military though
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Member Since: 5/8/2012
Posts: 6,632
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I see the US as a lawful neutral force in the world. If they pulled out of their bases, treaties, etc the international community would definitely suffer and also the US would lose a lot of leverage it has against its allies and foes. China would step up in the East in the US's place. I'm not sure what would happen in the ME though. I'm a little scared about what would happen if we backtracked on decades of foreign policy and I'm not willing to wait and see what could happen.
This was a good read
http://www.theatlantic.com/internati...policy/475581/
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Member Since: 5/18/2012
Posts: 20,576
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Quote:
Originally posted by Butters
I see the US as a chaotic neutral force in the world. If they pulled out of their bases, treaties, etc the international community would definitely suffer and also the US would lose a lot of leverage it has against its allies and foes. China would step up in the East in the US's place. I'm not sure what would happen in the ME though. I'm a little scared about what would happen if we backtracked on decades of foreign policy and I'm not willing to see what could happen.
This was a good read
http://www.theatlantic.com/internati...policy/475581/ |
But everyone seems to dislike America's involvement, when its the only one capable of doing that. There's no reason for the US to be everyone's nanny. China wants to have much more influence in Asia, American involvement there has done nothing but escalate tensions even more. What benefit besides leverage does the US have in defending Asia from China that has been returned equally? So when the US becomes an omnipresent force, they get lashed out for being "police". Now when we pull out, which will happen as outlined by all the presidential candidates and Obama maybe they'll respect the reason why the US is using its leadership, and why they need to be fair in their actions.
Saudi Arabia and Iran are vying for control in the Middle East. But one willingly builds Islamic extremism which is why we're in the mess anyway while the other so far hasn't at that level. What does the US gain from this? Nothing, but more billions spent and more American lives being killed.
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Member Since: 5/8/2012
Posts: 6,632
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Quote:
Originally posted by Tropez
But everyone seems to dislike America's involvement, when its the only one capable of doing that. There's no reason for the US to be everyone's nanny. China wants to have much more influence in Asia, American involvement there has done nothing but escalate tensions even more. What benefit besides leverage does the US have in defending Asia from China that has been returned equally? So when the US becomes an omnipresent force, they get lashed out for being "police". Now when we pull out, which will happen as outlined by all the presidential candidates and Obama maybe they'll respect the reason why the US is using its leadership, and why they need to be fair in their actions.
Saudi Arabia and Iran are vying for control in the Middle East. But one willingly builds Islamic extremism which is why we're in the mess anyway while the other so far hasn't at that level. What does the US gain from this? Nothing, but more billions spent and more American lives being killed.
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How do we benefit? We get power and influence over world politics and trade. There'd be a blatant gap in our presence in the international system if we left, but we'd soon be replaced. By China or Russia or whatever. China's already kinda taking over in Africa. Would that be in our best interests, to watch another country take over in world politics/relations? I don't know. It sure as hell will affect us.
I like to think we always try to keep order in the world (no world wars have happened under our watch!) and better it with the power we have, but I know it isn't exactly true and a ton of self interest/corruption is involved. I do think it would be good to step away from the Middle East for a while, too.
South Korea and Japan pull their weight in aid, they are paying billions to the US every year together. and if the US was just in it for the money they wouldn't even be there in the first place lol. They want to keep China away and avoid risking the economic/political interests/power they currently hold in Asia. Political leverage/interests isn't something that can be really quantified like $$$$, so it's understandable that people question what we get back from the things we do.
Also a good read on US foreign aid/expenditure. foreign military assistance makes up much less of our military spending than you might think
http://www.factcheck.org/2016/04/u-s...itary-support/
and I also like this quote from the first article I linked u
Quote:
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After his [Trump's] election, other countries will immediately hedge against the risk of abandonment. There will be massive uncertainty around America’s commitments. Would Trump defend the Baltics? Would he defend the Senkaku Islands [in the East China Sea]? Or Saudi Arabia? Some nations will give in to China, Russia and Iran. Others, like Japan, will push back, perhaps by acquiring nuclear weapons. Trump may well see such uncertainty as a positive. Putting everything in play would give him great leverage. But by undoing the work of Truman and his secretary of state, Dean Acheson, it would be the end of the American era.
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The balance of the world is so fragile rn and I don't think pulling out of everywhere and rejecting decades of foreign policy is something we can afford to do.
Edit: I hadn't realized you'd posted an article whoops. Let me read it
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Member Since: 8/17/2013
Posts: 3,945
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I would be stoked if we stopped trading with China. I'll return my iPhone and gladly wash my own clothes without a washing machine, I'll grow my own cotton and make my own clothes, and I'll be happy to never buy any plastic junk from them ever again.
China can keep all their junk. I want to have a farm and only buy hand-made, quality things. We don't need their plastic crap to survive.
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Member Since: 5/8/2012
Posts: 6,632
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Quote:
Originally posted by leociccone
I would be stoked if we stopped trading with China. I'll return my iPhone and gladly wash my own clothes without a washing machine, I'll grow my own cotton and make my own clothes, and I'll be happy to never buy any plastic junk from them ever again.
China can keep all their junk. I want to have a farm and only buy hand-made, quality things. We don't need their plastic crap to survive.
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What's stopping you from doing that now?
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Member Since: 8/18/2013
Posts: 3,396
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The EU beeds a strong USA to remain stable. Russia is very aggressive and Putin's anxiously waiting to be able to use his new toys. I do agree that the EU member states should all pay their share, but I do not think the US influence in the word should become smaller. The US is the only country in the world not blinded by ideals, war-hunger, political opportubism or big interests. They want a stable world, and don't care if this would mean an undemocratic one. The US presence and support in the EU and Korea is vital for the stability of the world.
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Member Since: 8/17/2013
Posts: 3,945
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Quote:
Originally posted by Butters
What's stopping you from doing that now?
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I'm doing it to the best of my ability....but the majority of the US is reliant on Walmart crap. There aren't even many stores that sell hand-made, quality things anymore.
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ATRL Contributor
Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 19,418
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Quote:
Originally posted by leociccone
I would be stoked if we stopped trading with China. I'll return my iPhone and gladly wash my own clothes without a washing machine, I'll grow my own cotton and make my own clothes, and I'll be happy to never buy any plastic junk from them ever again.
China can keep all their junk. I want to have a farm and only buy hand-made, quality things. We don't need their plastic crap to survive.
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You do know that there are alot of US made clothing right  Alot of it is just not affordable for some reason. And there again there are washing machines made by the US
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ATRL Contributor
Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 19,418
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Not at the US paying 70% of the bill for NATO
Use that money for our own education instead!
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Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 16,371
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Reign in its military interventionism, but it shouldn't isolate itself. The US is a crucial player in pretty much all aspect of world trade and cooperation.
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Member Since: 8/17/2013
Posts: 3,945
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Quote:
Originally posted by Caesar
You do know that there are alot of US made clothing right Alot of it is just not affordable for some reason. And there again there are washing machines made by the US |
I know that. It's just sad that we as a country rely mostly on cheap importation rather than using our own labor etc.
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