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Discussion: U.S. Election 2016: Primary Season
Member Since: 8/7/2015
Posts: 611
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Member Since: 3/5/2011
Posts: 15,589
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Quote:
Originally posted by BlueTimberwolf
Also a TV person's opinion is not indicative of a party as a whole on either side, whether be at the state, federal, or local level.
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Are you a Republican?
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Member Since: 4/17/2011
Posts: 6,399
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So what's the deal with Bernie's tax records? It doesn't seem like there would be anything worth discussing. They grilled Jane Sanders hard in the With All Due Respect interview, and the way her answers came off is as if she had something to hide.
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Member Since: 8/3/2010
Posts: 71,871
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Quote:
Originally posted by KimmyBella
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They're so wishy washy
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ATRL Contributor
Member Since: 8/18/2013
Posts: 3,968
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Quote:
Originally posted by Marvin
His money is coming from everyday people; hers is coming from the wealthy and corporations.
It's really not that hard to understand.
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That's not my point? I'm saying that he argues we should not allow money to drive elections, yet he is outspending her. And that's despite the false accusations you're making against her when more than 70% of her donations are coming from every day people.
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Member Since: 8/3/2010
Posts: 71,871
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Quote:
Originally posted by Shame♥
So what's the deal with Bernie's tax records? It doesn't seem like there would be anything worth discussing. They grilled Jane Sanders hard in the With All Due Respect interview, and the way her answers came off is as if she had something to hide.
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It's become tradition (since the early 70s) that all presidential candidates release their tax records for public consumption to help aid in transparency. So if a candidate doesn't do it, while its in the rules for them to withhold it, they seem as though they have something to hide
I don't see what the big deal is myself but the media is grilling him for it
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Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 59,596
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Member Since: 8/18/2013
Posts: 4,846
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The NYDN is so dramatic  the way they dragged Bernie 
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ATRL Senior Member
Member Since: 11/14/2008
Posts: 24,988
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Quote:
Originally posted by Bad Wolf
4 Myths Keeping Clinton Afloat
SOURCE
Myth #1 – Hillary is more likely to beat Republicans in the general election
Myth #2 – Hillary knows how to get things done
Myth #3 – Sanders isn’t a real Democrat and he isn’t doing anything to help the Party’s downballot candidates
Myth #4 – Her experience gives her an edge
My fave part:
Any thoughts from the HRC clan??
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I'll give my thoughts.
 Debunking of Myth #1Fact is, we don't know who is more likely to beat Republicans in November. Why? Because there is this process called "vetting." What is vetting? Well, it's what most of the Bernie fans do with Hillary for months now, call into question previous actions, associations, stances, votes, character, etc over the years. Being relentless in challenging the legitimacy of her candidacy and character, for the most part. Hillary has been vetted by the Republican party for over 25 years now as well. 25 years of personal and professional attacks, geared towards tearing her down. Every aspect of her life is under a microscope for criticism. Bernie has yet to feel such scrutiny like that. MILLIONS OF DOLLARS have been poured into efforts to ruin her campaign. A GOP PAC has spent nearly $5 million dollars recently on attack ads against Hillary. Bernie? ZERO. Hillary is critical of Bernie, but not critical enough. She handles him with kid gloves. Why? Because Hillary and her campaign are too scared to alienate his hardcore supporters by going at him too hard. Bernie on the other hand, he can pop her however he wants with no push back or ramifications. The first time I seen him get push back was after the "qualified-gate." He rightfully got heat from a lot of folks about it and he backtracked, only to double down with wording it different with "judgement." After his campaign were exposed for data-gate and harassing union members in Nevada, he skated with no consequences hardly. Had it been Hillary, she would have been berned at the stake. Being demonized with #BernTheWitch #WhichHillary and other ridiculous social media attacks you expect from the right, not left.
His gun control history, the toxic waste dump in West Texas, Lockheed Flip Flopping, Cuba/Castro comments, Gender Pay Gap among his own campaign staff, etc. are only a few issues that haven't been held against him hard enough. He is skating through the vetting process on both sides and it's because of fear on Hillary's side for alienation and the other side? They just don't take him seriously enough. The Republicans don't believe he'll be the nominee or has a legit path towards the nomination. Hillary has withstood attacks from both sides and yet she's still producing strong results in the actual voting process. If you don't think a GOP who throws everything at Bernie, blasting him publicly and digging up stuff to air won't cause his polling numbers head-to-heads to drop, you have another thing coming. #VetHIM
Debunking of Myth #2
Hillary does know how to get things done. It's called working in bipartisan effort. Realistically, you have to understand that not every piece of legislation is going to pass through congress, but you have to work with the system you have. She has done that. Hillary worked tirelessly for her constituents in New York. First Responders who went to Ground Zero when the towers came, she fought hard in congress to secure them $21 billion in federal aid assistance. Money that went towards rebuilding, attending to the health of the first responders, and aided the widows of those responders. Hillary fought to protect and create jobs in New York state, from Niagara Falls Air Force base or the Center for Bioinformatics at the University of Buffalo. She also led the charge on the Lilly Ledbetter Pay Equity Act (Law of the land).
As Secretary of State, Hillary did something that is hard pressed to do, she actually got super power nations like Russia, China, the EU, and the Civilized World on board with harsh sanctions against Iran. Basically strong-arming them, forcing them to come negotiate. She can play hard ball too when producing results. She pushed and got the START Treaty finalized (missile reduction agreement with Russia). Hillary entered the START Treaty into force within Munich, Germany. Played an integral role in adverting an all out war in Gaza between Israelis and Palestinians (negotiating a cease-fire). Advanced the STATE DEPARTMENT by creating, "Center for Strategic Counterterrorism Communications." Premised to counter Al-Qaeda’s online presence.
Getting things done stateside and WORLDWIDE.
Debunking of Myth #3
Fact is, Bernie has helped here and there for the Democratic down ticket through "letters" and such, as stated by him and Jane. However, he comes nowhere near the levels of proactive involvement in which Hillary has. When asked if he would help with fundraising for the down ticket, he responded with a, "we'll see." WHAT? HUH? There is no "we'll see," only "WHEN AND WHERE." To push progressive issues forward, you need those people in office. They can't get in office if they don't have the funds to compete against rival parties. Also, you can't expect these people, some being super delegates, to vote for you on the floor in July, when you won't even lift a finger to help them or the Democratic Party. Hillary has spent her entire adulthood VOTING for Democrats. RECRUITING for Democrats. CAMPAIGNING for Democrats. FUNDRAISING for Democrats. She has always been there for her party. Bernie? Not so much. For someone who says, "Not me, Us" it sure does come off as the "us" doesn't include the party leaders.
Debunking of Myth #4
Yes, experience gives you the edge. If you walk into a job interview for a big time position for a large company and if you are an equal to your competitors in education, your experience will set you apart from the pack. Your experience will sell you and get the position. As a former Senior Recruiter, who did this for a living, I would know. The position of POTUS would be no different. Experience is the end all, but it is the most key thing when going through prerequisites.
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Member Since: 7/21/2012
Posts: 28,099
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Quote:
Originally posted by foxaylove
I'll give my thoughts.
Debunking the debunk of Myth #1
Fact is, we don't know who is more likely to beat Republicans in November than Bernie. Why? Because there is this process called "vetting." What is vetting? Well it's what most of the Bernie fans do with Hillary for months now, call into question previous actions, associations, stances, votes, character, etc over the years. Being relentless in challenging the legitimacy of her candidacy and character. Hillary has been vetted by the Republican party for over 25 years now. 25 years of personal and professional attacks, geared towards tearing her down. Every aspect of her life is under a microscope for criticism. Bernie has yet to feel such heat of any kind. MILLIONS OF DOLLARS has been poured into efforts to ruin her campaign. A GOP PAC has spent nearly $5 million dollars recently on attack ads against Hillary. Bernie? ZERO. Hillary is critical of Bernie, but not critical enough. She handles him with kid gloves. Why? Because Hillary and her campaign are too scared to alienate his hardcore supporters. Bernie on the other hand, he can pop her however he wants with no push back or ramifications. The first time I seen him get push back was after the "qualified-gate." He rightfully got heat from a lot of folks about it and he backtracked, only to double down with wording it different with "judgement." After his campaign were exposed for data-gate and harassing union members in Nevada, he skated with no consequences hardly. Had it been Hillary, she would have been berned at the stake. Being demonized with #BernTheWitch #WhichHillary and other ridiculous social media attacks you expect from the right, not left.
His gun control history, the toxic waste dump in West Texas, Lockheed Flip Flopping, Cuba/Castro comments, Gender Pay Gap in his own campaign, etc. are only a few issues that haven't been held against him hard enough. He is skating through the vetting process on both sides and it's because of fear on Hillary's side for alienation and the other side? They just don't take him seriously cause they don't think he'll be the nominee or has a path towards the nomination. Hillary has withstood attacks from both sides and yet she's still producing strong results in the actual voting process. If you don't think a GOP who throws everything at Bernie, blasting him publicly and digging up stuff to air won't cause his polling head-to-heads to drop, you have another thing coming. #VetHIM
Debunking the debunk of Myth #2
Hillary does know how to get things done. It's called working in bipartisan effort. Realistically, you have to understand that not every piece of legislation is going to pass through congress, but you have to work with the system you have. She has done that. She did that when working for the First Responders, securing $21 billion in federal aid assistance for them; helping NYC rebuild after September 11th. Went to battle in getting first responders who went straight into ground zero the help they needed. Hillary to protect and create jobs in New York state, from Niagara Falls Air Force base or the Center for Bioinformatics at the University of Buffalo. She also led the charge on the Lilly Ledbetter Pay Equity Act (Law of the land).
As Secretary of State, Hillary did something that is hard pressed to do, she actually got super power nations like Russia, China, the EU, and the Civilized World on board with harsh sanctions against Iran. Basically strong-arming them, forcing them to come negotiate. She can play hard ball too when producing results. She pushed and got the START Treaty finalized (missile reduction agreement with Russia). Hillary entered the START Treaty into force within Munich, Germany. Played an integral role in adverting an all out war in Gaza between Israelis and Palestinians (negotiating a cease-fire). Advanced the STATE DEPARTMENT by creating, "Center for Strategic Counterterrorism Communications." Premised to counter Al-Qaeda’s online presence.
Getting things done stateside and WORLDWIDE.
Debunking the debunk of Myth #3
Fact is, Bernie has helped here and there for the Democratic down ticket through "letters" and such, as stated by him and Jane. However, he comes nowhere near the levels of proactive involvement in which Hillary has. When asked if he would help with fundraising for the down ticket, he responded with a, "we'll see." WHAT? HUH? There is no "we'll see," only "WHEN AND WHERE." To push progressive issues forward, you need those people in office. They can't get in office if they don't have the funds to compete against rival parties. Also, you can't expect these people, some being super delegates, to vote for you on the floor in July, when you won't even lift a finger to help them or the Democratic Party. Hillary has spent her entire adulthood VOTING for Democrats. RECRUITING for Democrats. CAMPAIGNING for Democrats. FUNDRAISING for Democrats. She has always been there for her party. Bernie? Not so much. For someone who says, "Not me, Us" it sure does come off as the "us" doesn't include the party leaders.
Debunking the debunk of Myth #4
Yes, experience gives you the edge. If you walk into a job interview for a big time position for a large company. If you are an equal to your competitors in education, your experience will set you apart from the pack. Your experience will sell you and get the position. As a former Senior Recruiter, who did this for a living, I would know. The position of POTUS would be no different. Experience is the end all, but it is the most key thing when going through prerequisites.
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ATRL Contributor
Member Since: 8/19/2013
Posts: 43,104
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Member Since: 1/20/2012
Posts: 27,830
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Quote:
Originally posted by Temporal
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The title is pretty dumb 
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Member Since: 8/7/2015
Posts: 23,857
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Quote:
Originally posted by Marvin
The title is pretty dumb |
What's wrong with it?
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Member Since: 7/21/2012
Posts: 28,099
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Quote:
Originally posted by Marvin
The title is pretty dumb |
But the information in it isn't. 
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Member Since: 1/20/2012
Posts: 27,830
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dessy Fenix
What's wrong with it?
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You don't have to listen to what the GOP says to think that she is corrupt or untrustworthy. I highly doubt all the Democrats voting in primaries who are saying she's untrustworthy because of what the GOP has said about her.
These party politics are so childish tbh
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Member Since: 7/21/2012
Posts: 28,099
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Quote:
Originally posted by Marvin
You don't have to listen to what the GOP says to think that she is corrupt or untrustworthy. I highly doubt all the Democrats voting in primaries who are saying she's untrustworthy because of what the GOP has said about her.
These party politics are so childish tbh
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Member Since: 1/20/2012
Posts: 27,830
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Quote:
Originally posted by King Maxx
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Stay sleep I guess
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Member Since: 8/7/2015
Posts: 23,857
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Quote:
Originally posted by Marvin
You don't have to listen to what the GOP says to think that she is corrupt or untrustworthy. I highly doubt all the Democrats voting in primaries who are saying she's untrustworthy because of what the GOP has said about her.
These party politics are so childish tbh
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Mess I pretty much been led astray on Hillary initially by the attacks from the GOP so 
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ATRL Senior Member
Member Since: 11/14/2008
Posts: 24,988
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Another thing I never understood is, why do some Bernie supporters call Hillary a Republican disguised as a Democrat? As if her time in Senate, she didn't rank 11th as the most liberal Senator, voting-wise. Eleventh, where she was to the left of Democratic peers in being more liberal. Peers such as heralded Populist, Elizabeth Warren and current POTUS, Barak Obama. Bernie was naturally #1, but it's not like Hillary doesn't have a liberal voting past. To call her anything but is laughable.
X
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ATRL Contributor
Member Since: 8/18/2013
Posts: 3,968
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Quote:
Originally posted by Temporal
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really biased but it makes some valid points.
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