| |
Discussion: U.S. Election 2016: Primary Season
Member Since: 9/20/2009
Posts: 3,275
|
Quote:
Originally posted by King Maxx
The point you're missing is that Americans don't want change. And that's for both parties. It's not a real issue. That's why Bernard ran as a Democrat to try to win the nomination.
As I've said a lot, America is very strategic. It's all about playing your cards right. Is it bad? Maybe. But it's the way it is. Unless you want a revolution and set our country back after all the progress....
|
Maybe I've been misunderstood. I'm speaking for myself, not America. I know America will not be abandoning the two-party system anytime soon. I'm speaking in terms of philosophy, and how the two-party system only "works" and "makes sense" because that's the only way we've done things.
|
|
|
|
Member Since: 1/20/2012
Posts: 27,830
|
Quote:
Originally posted by Qwerty1234
What party a candidate belongs to says a hell of a lot about his or her ideology.
|
I agree but there was just a post a few pages back that implied all Republicans should gay marriage 
Comments like those reveal what's wrong with the two-party system.
|
|
|
|
Member Since: 11/28/2011
Posts: 27,495
|
Quote:
Hey, Salon: Back off Obama Already!!! Sane Salon readers are growing increasingly frustrated with the fanatical support of Hillary and gleeful bashing of Barack.
How many different ways can Salon figure out how to idolatrize, glorify and otherwise bolster up your golden girl, Hillary? Let us count the ways, eh?
So here we go, yet again, with another spin on the Salon's now daily anti-Obama coverage...
Salon has decided that even the most valid critiques of Hillary -- and let's face it, there are so many, one can't even count -- can be explained away by one word: sexism.
Hillary lies about Bosnia, and the media calls her on it. SEXISM!
Hillary votes for war and then has to answer for it? SEXISM!
Hillary greenlights racist and divisive campaign techniques, then tries to distance herself from them, but no one believes her? SEXISM!
Hillary is a forgettable speaker, with no charisma, and people disklike her personality? SEXISM!!
Forget about the actual substance of the criticisms and problems -- because if there's a critique of Hillary, then, BOO HOO, CALL OUT THE NATIONAL GUARD -- BECAUSE...IT'S SEXISM!
|
This commenter went in 
|
|
|
|
Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 7,726
|
Quote:
Originally posted by MrHiphy
The problem is that you're thinking about voting under its current formula, with primaries and the electoral college and all of that. The method of voting would clearly have to change. And campaign financing would still affect visibility, so even if we have 20 candidates, only so many of them will have the financial capacity to run a successful campaign.
|
But HOW would you realistically change it? You keep telling us the two party system doesn't work but how would you change it?? If you can't offer an alternative then there's no use in talking about how the system we have noe doesn't work.
Even if you take away electoral votes and award the presidency based on majority of total votes, what do you do when there's not a clear winner?
And what if say Peter wins and he believes in ideology A but the House and the Senate only consists of people that believe in ideology B,C and D. How would Peter be able to convince lawmakers that were elected as well, that HIS ideology is the right one??
|
|
|
|
ATRL Contributor
Member Since: 8/19/2013
Posts: 43,104
|
Trump is such a child  This whole "ISIS can do it why can't we do it?" is such a childish mentality
|
|
|
|
Member Since: 11/15/2009
Posts: 16,903
|
Quote:
Originally posted by King Maxx
But there is an issue with women in power and leadership. Y'all should know that after being on this pop forum.  |
Like, we see that 98% of Senators since the founding have been men, 96% of the Supreme Court has been men, and 100% of the presidency has been men. And then we have an amazing female candidate who could become the first female president because of her amazing career and credentials, and we (as her supporters) are supposed to act like it's no big deal?!? Nah, **** that.
|
|
|
|
Member Since: 1/6/2014
Posts: 19,122
|
Marco on attacking Trump:
Quote:
“I’d do it differently,” the Florida senator told anchor Megyn Kelly, according to a transcript provided to TheBlaze. “I really would.”
“The reason — my kids were embarrassed by it. My wife didn’t like it,” he added. “I don’t think it reflects good. That’s not who I am. That’s not what my campaign is going to be about or will ever be about again.”
|
So embarrassing 
Also why do Bernie Bro's completely shut down anyone who is excited for a woman President? It's a pretty big deal, just as being the first black President was a massive deal in 2008. Obviously no one is voting for Hillary just because of that 
|
|
|
|
Member Since: 11/28/2011
Posts: 27,495
|
The only way I can imagine breaking away from a 2 party system would be in a parliamentary system.
|
|
|
|
Member Since: 7/21/2012
Posts: 28,099
|
Quote:
Originally posted by MrHiphy
Maybe I've been misunderstood. I'm speaking for myself, not America. I know America will not be abandoning the two-party system anytime soon. I'm speaking in terms of philosophy, and how the two-party system only "works" and "makes sense" because that's the only way we've done things.
|
I'm glad you feel the way you feel. Some of the best minds were unconventional.
But I'm just stating why I think it's a bad idea.
|
|
|
|
Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 16,870
|
Hillary is the best person for the job and she is a woman. Its not her being a woman that makes her the best qualified and to imply thats how i feel exposes your misogyny.
I like Bernard. He has got ambitious ideas, but like he himself said "i cant do it alone, its going to take millions to stand up and make a change"
He is a revolutionary but revolutions only come to fruition when the majority want it and so far it seems like Americans are more complacent than revolutionary. Its sad because the people supporting Bernie are actually the least like him.
|
|
|
|
Member Since: 1/20/2012
Posts: 27,830
|
Quote:
Originally posted by Bey Admired
If a liberal who usually votes for the Democrats, voted for Donald Trump because they liked some of his liberal views, that would not work in their direct interest. This is especially the case if congress is controlled by the Republican majority. They could literally do anything they wanted, with not a soul stopping them. Do you think Donald is going to care to stop the Republicans if they want to do something drastic to the law that will directly affect millions? Nah.
Voting for a Democrat always makes more logical sense. They all share a basic set of principles that ALL Democrats stand for (well most, including both Hillary and Bernie). The idea that the middle class is the core to economic stability. The idea that every woman should have the right to choose what she does with her body. The idea that women deserve equal pay for equal work. The idea that healthcare is a right, not a privilege. You'd be hard pressed to find any Republican candidate who holds all those views. You'd be even harder pressed to find a Republican who stands up against all the Republicans of congress who disagree.
Hillary or Bernie is always a better option than any GOP candidate if you share those core values.
|
Hillary is a liar and untrustworthy. If she cared about the middle class so much she wouldn't be in favor of free-trade agreements or giving paid speeches to Wall Street. There's a huge fundamental difference between the two.
|
|
|
|
Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 7,726
|
Quote:
Originally posted by King Maxx
Are all people who don't support Hillary sexist? Of course not. I doubt most Hillary supporters think that. Just like I doubt Bernard's supporters are as delusional as those Twitter trolls.
But there is an issue with women in power and leadership. Y'all should know that after being on this pop forum. |
There's an issue with African American candidates.
There's an issue with Jewish candidates.
She doesn't have more of a hardship than anyone else. Her supporters screaming "sexism" at every little thing victimizes her and hurts her more (See Gloria and Madeline) than the blatant sexist remarks by idiots that sane people usually ignore.
|
|
|
|
Member Since: 11/28/2011
Posts: 27,495
|
What do Hillary stans think about when she lied about being under sniper fire? I'm genuinely curious.
|
|
|
|
Member Since: 9/20/2009
Posts: 3,275
|
Quote:
Originally posted by Qwerty1234
But HOW would you realistically change it? You keep telling us the two party system doesn't work but how would you change it?? If you can't offer an alternative then there's no use in talking about how the system we have noe doesn't work.
Even if you take away electoral votes and award the presidency based on majority of total votes, what do you do when there's not a clear winner?
And what if say Peter wins and he believes in ideology A but the House and the Senate only consists of people that believe in ideology B,C and D. How would Peter be able to convince lawmakers that were elected as well, that HIS ideology is the right one??
|
I didn't say the two party system doesn't work. I am saying that its limiting and creates the cult like culture in which everyone's overly committed to a party and candidates sacrifice their ideals in support of the party. I'm not going to go into HOW because I could write an entire essay on that with peer revision and I honestly don't have the time nor energy to do that for ATRL.
And if we are basing the presidency on majority total votes, how isn't there a clear winner? With millions of people voting, I highly doubt that polling will end in an actual tie. If a candidate wins by one single vote well that's too bad for the loser.
And your last point makes absolutely no sense considering half of the politician job is compromising and getting people to align with your wants for a specific bill.
|
|
|
|
Member Since: 7/21/2012
Posts: 28,099
|
Quote:
Originally posted by Qwerty1234
There's an issue with African American candidates.
There's an issue with Jewish candidates.
She doesn't have more of a hardship than anyone else. Her supporters screaming "sexism" at every little thing victimizes her and hurts her more (See Gloria and Madeline) than the blatant sexist remarks by idiots that sane people usually ignore.
|
But most Hillary supporters don't think that. Since when did Twitter trolls represent all American citizens.
|
|
|
|
Member Since: 11/28/2011
Posts: 27,495
|
Quote:
Originally posted by that G.U.Y.
Hillary is the best person for the job and she is a woman. Its not her being a woman that makes her the best qualified and to imply thats how i feel exposes your misogyny.
I like Bernard. He has got ambitious ideas, but like he himself said "i cant do it alone, its going to take millions to stand up and make a change"
He is a revolutionary but revolutions only come to fruition when the majority want it and so far it seems like Americans are more complacent than revolutionary. Its sad because the people supporting Bernie are actually the least like him.
|
You don't think he can energise the people once he's in power?
|
|
|
|
Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 7,726
|
Quote:
Originally posted by that G.U.Y.
Hillary is the best person for the job and she is a woman. Its not her being a woman that makes her the best qualified and to imply thats how i feel exposes your misogyny.
I like Bernard. He has got ambitious ideas, but like he himself said "i cant do it alone, its going to take millions to stand up and make a change"
He is a revolutionary but revolutions only come to fruition when the majority want it and so far it seems like Americans are more complacent than revolutionary. Its sad because the people supporting Bernie are actually the least like him.
|
Hell no it doesn't. Just as some African Americans voted for Obama because he's black, there are plenty of people picking Hillary over Bernie just to see a woman become President. **** chances are they wouldn't even be able to tell you what she actually stands for or what her economic plans are for the country.
Like let's not pretend otherwise.
|
|
|
|
Member Since: 11/15/2009
Posts: 16,903
|
Quote:
Originally posted by Qwerty1234
Hell no it doesn't. Just as some African Americans voted for Obama because he's black, there are plenty of people picking Hillary over Bernie just to see a woman become President. **** chances are they wouldn't even be able to tell you what she actually stands for or what her economic plans are for the country.
Like let's not pretend otherwise.
|
Disgusting. This is sad.
|
|
|
|
Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 16,870
|
Quote:
Originally posted by Marvin
Hillary is a liar and untrustworthy. If she cared about the middle class so much she wouldn't be in favor of free-trade agreements or giving paid speeches to Wall Street. There's a huge fundamental difference between the two.
|
Those free trade agreements are keeping America on good terms with the international community. If we didnt have free trade agreements then the middle class would be completely decimated as any job a middle class person can do can be done cheaper and faster in other countries because the middle class thinks they deserve to earn $20 an hour standing in a factory.
If anything its the unions that have betrayed the middle class. But keep blaming Hillary instead of explaing what Bernie will do to save the middle class. 
|
|
|
|
Member Since: 1/1/2014
Posts: 7,726
|
Quote:
Originally posted by King Maxx
But most Hillary supporters don't think that. Since when did Twitter trolls represent all American citizens. |
You have everyone from Lena Dunham to Gloria Steinman crying sexism on her behalf. And no, I'm not talking about Twitter trolls. I'm sure you'd find plentyy of voters who would argue that she's somehow being put down due to her sex while it might be for that or for a whole range of other issues voters might have with her.
Like someone on Twitter said, a sexist who would refuse to vote for someone just because she's a woman is unlikely to vote for a Black guy and a Jewish guy as well. 
|
|
|
|
|
|
