You don't see how "greatest female singer songwriter" implicitly reminds you that she's in some lower grouping? I have never seen a male musician described as a "male ______."

Writers (in general; not just music reviewers) do this all the time. It might seem like nitpicking, and it might even be unconscious on the part of many writers, but it's all about reading the signs that writers give their readers. Why do people say "greatest black actress," "greatest female painter," "the transgender star" (look @ many articles about Laverne Cox), but they would never qualify Bob Dylan as the "greatest straight white male singer-songwriter"? It signals that straight/white/male is the norm -- no qualifier necessary. But "greatest female singer songwriter" immediately implies that there are men who are better.

And of course best music is subjective, but objectively Bob Dylan could barely ever sing, and I think most reasonable critics would acknowledge that Joni's peak music was more sophisticated and adventurous (with an open tuning system of her own design that other musicians have yet to match). But hey, she's just the "female" Bob Dylan, so...



I really haven't noticed this nearly as much with men. Open up any review of Kanye's last 2-3 albums, and his disastrous persona is often called part of his genius. A quote from the first review I found for The Life of Pablo: "All over the album, West hides behind his douchebag mask whenever he gets scared he's exposed himself too deeply in the expansively emotional music. He wants the world to see him as an asshole..."

I really can't picture many reviewers claiming a woman "wants the world to see [her] as an asshole" as part of her artistic genius.



So they did better than usual in 2015. Maybe it's a sign that things are changing, but that doesn't immediately make up for decades of sexist music criticism. It's not about not being "#1 all the time on every list," it's that women are essentially never #1 -- none of the time -- none of the lists.

It's the same kind of faulty logic people use to defend the Grammys and the Oscars. "Black people can't win every single important award all the time!" The point is that they're winning almost none of the important awards.

Will Acclaimed Music ever have an update that makes the top 100 artists have more than, what, 10 women? I doubt it.

Maybe because certain people don't think she is the best, and still prefer Bob? The separation in calling her "the female Bob"; yeah that's unnecessary. "Female singer-songwriter" I don't see the issue? That's a respectable title. Like Queen of pop/King of pop.

I agree here.

The industry does do too much on Fiona's life rather her craft, as they do most artists regardless of their gender.

Women smashed men in the Pazz & Jop year end list. And AcclaimedMusic released a .xls file of what the 2016 update is going to look like (thus far), and 5/10 of the top 10 albums are by female artists/female-led bands.

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They're being rewarded for their quality work, I don't see how they're not. I wouldn't say just cause they're not #1 all the time on every list, that it's a gender bias.

When it comes down to content (i,e. If a woman writes about love how it's perceived vs a man writing about it) and how critics react to that then yeah I definitely see it; same goes when a woman writes about sex.

Also in Joanna's case, I've seen plenty of reputable critics hail her as the best musician of the 21st century, not female; greatest in general.

Maybe they didn't have the best albums in their respectable years; it's possible that them being women had nothing to do with it. And either way, Let England Shake is the most acclaimed album of 2011 in terms of year-end lists.

Madonna being dragged for Erotica and Prince being praised for Dirty Mind; that is gender bias.

Let England Shake topped more than 20+ year end lists. Stories from the City, Stories from the Sea was a close call.

Women aren't respected period. It's not rocket science

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Straight men run the music industry. Straight men are sexist.

Being sexual doesn't make your music any worse and absolutely should not mean you get less respect. The idea that people equate sexuality with a deserved lack of respect is an issue.

women are sex and sex is bad

Channel Orange would be just as acclaimed, but only if a lesbian released it.

I can't wait until we can "like" posts. You better drag penis holders!

And even when women are critically acclaimed, you will never see them take the number one spot on best-of lists. They may even get to number two, but never number one.

I don't read it as lower grouping more often than not because context first and foremost. Labeling is fine depending where the article is going and non-offensive terms are being used. Yes, it can imply that there are men that are better; but we've agreed best music is subjective so said writer can believe a male artist is better because that's their opinion and you're kind of assuming it's based on gender (of course, they could say "the 2nd/3rd/4th greatest", but that's kind of too specific I think). I've also seen her (Joni) referred to as "one of the greatest singer-songwriters" often which in this case would be the only non-problematic labeling I suppose. Is calling Laverne Transgender supposed to be looked at as a negative? She refers to herself as a transgender woman. Come on, there's nothing lowering about that.

I haven't listened to much of Joni or Bob, so I can't comment on the rest. The "female Dylan" thing is definitely a dig and slap to her artistry.

I've seen it just as much, It all depends where you're looking, what critics you're checking out and whose music is being reviewed. And I've seen reviews of Kanye being dragged critically for his douchebag tendencies on TLOP and how that affected the music.

But I've seen plenty of lists with women as #1. The separation of gender goes back (in a way) to something you mentioned: Why does it have to be a "woman" or "man" at #1, and not the best album in the critics opinion regardless of the gender? You're not always going to agree with a critic. Why is it gender bias or women looking secondary that, yes, more often male artists have an album that was deemed the best in a year according to critics? That isn't fair to male artists that put just as much effort into their work as the female artists at all. Their album very well could be the best all year according to those critics without gender being taken into consideration. It's all personal taste musically and to immediately jump to it having to do with the gender of an artist is a shaky stance to have.

The music industry and the film industry's discrimination situations isn't comparable. Comparing different forms of discrimination is lousy and it's even worse because the situations of each are completely different.

I see women topping year end lists that in my opinion didn't deserve it because I didn't care for their album/didn't like it that much and the same goes for some male artists that top the lists sometimes.

This thread is about critics year end lists, but a woman just won AOTY for the second time in one decade (And a woman has won it in total 3 times this decade!). Which is pretty damn important and, in my opinion and others, she didn't deserve it. Just like last year many didn't think Beck deserved his.

See, That's very biased on your part lol. Who's to say that certain male artists ahead of certain female artists on the site aren't better/making better music and deserve to be ahead?

I honestly don't even see THAT big of a gap of praise between female artists & male artists these days until I look at the Electronic dance music scene which is borderline depressing. Where were DJ Sprinkles Grammy noms and her year end lists mentions for Midtown 120 Blues? Nobody talks about that tho; only the artists like Fiona, Joni & even Beyonce who have gotten their praise as artists and are respected -- not ignored like Ms. Sprinkles.

No, it doesn't erase past sexism in the industry at all. But just because they're not topping these lists as often means that it's sexism at fault.

Wake up. As you said straight men run the industry, and if you have a popstar who's basically acting like their slave or sex kitten like the woman from the avi How is she going to be respected? All they will think of is sex, but it's like some of those women ask for it. Then, on the other hand you have Adele who IS in fact respected, and all because of THE VOICE, not gimmicks.

Opinions.

Maybe quite unpopular one, but to me Yeezus is Kanyes best album so far, much better than MBDTF. Maybe not lyrically, but certainly when it comes to music and production imo. I simply love the raw sound and I enjoy all the twists, while I find MBDTF too polished. When it comes to Beyonce, I never was a fan. I tried four times to listen to it in full, the album just bores me, I find it dull. The same argument can be used for all your examples.

Its just about preferences, not everything has to be a gender bias, you know.

Pile of bull****.

Objectively Bob Dylan could barely sing? What has that to do with him being considered one of the greatest songwriters, again? I dont see him being labeled the greatest singer, but I have to say that his voice/singing style has a lot of character and complimets the songs often much better than some singer with pipes belting the **** out of them and sucking the soul out.

I personally dont find Bob Dylan to be the greatest songwriter as he is often labeled either. Nor Joni Mitchell. My favorite songwriters just so happen to be all men, because thats how I feel about their skills and talent, does that make me a self-hating sexist?

Objectively, Bob is a damn fine songwriter, and as an artist, he approached a genre, transformed it into something new and helped to change the direction of music for decades. Thats quite impressive and adventurous, dont you think?

No matter how much you prefer Joni and think her peak was more sophisticated and adventurous, its all once again only down to your personal preference. That whole rant about how everything Joni does is beyond what Bob could ever do is just YOUR bias showing off. You should have stopped after stating that the best music is subjective, but no.

No, I dont see how "the greatest female songwriter" should only imply that there is a better male equivalent. Just like Im not neccessarily implying that there is a better female counterpart when I say "the greatest male dancer/singer/gymnast" and so on. I just say it that way because maybe its too hard for me to compare male and female voices, moves and so on and I find them both great in different way... never ever thought about it that way?

I really want women to be more experimental and daring when it comes to music, and when a female artist blows my mind, I certainly am rooting for her and including her to my lists, but unfortunately, it doesnt happen very often. As I said previously, not many female artists make even my own year end lists, even when there were albumsby female artists I praised. And I refuse to include female artists just to achieve more "diversity" , when I dont feel they were the best and deserve the spot.

Its not just bias. Maybe the sexism is holding us back, but not like you think. Its not just the critics fault. Maybe because of the fact how women are judged and objectified, many female artists are worrying too much about how other people may perceive them (including their own labels mostly controlled by men) when they try something new, so they are making compromises and holding themselves back. Thats just my opinion ofc, and I can be wrong.


No. Just no. There is a huge difference in who we are and how we are treated. We certainly arent second class citizens only because we are often treated as such. People who classify and treat us as such are sexists.

And if you havent noticed, this society loves to label people and putting them in boxes. Not just women. All people. Its just how it is.

I have to agree here. Love the last bit here also.